The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[MDSTSSJ]

Goku had Gohan(HBTC) who was more or less even with him AT THE TIME. So that would be better training than Oob to be honest. Yeah Oob is stronger then Cell Arc Gohan by a great deal but Goku and Gohan not only had a great chemistry in fighting training style but their powers was closer thus making them compete and get stronger. Gohan motivation of wanting to be strong to fight for his friends and Goku wanting Gohan to surpass him.

Yeah the anime is bullshit at times. SSJ2 Vegeta > SSJ3 Gotenks according to the anime.

Yes, that is another very good example of how strong you can be with a strong partner even outside the RoSaT.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Rild was on the verge of defeating Gohan actually, Uub jumped in and one-shotted Rild.

Because Rild could make Gohan's arms & legs useless with that transforming beam. They were fighting evenly before that.

In a side history like GT why not? Kakarotto never had a damn strong training partner like Oob. With a partner like that, is very conceivable for me.

In real life, training with stronger partners works awesome. In a DB life, Aliens like Saiyans, should work 1000 times better.

Goku doesn't sound like he is much stronger in the 28th TB, since he was expecting to loose from Oob, who was as strong as Pure Boo. And Toriyama said that the characters have reached their limits, and I don't think I have to mention that no one ever became 400 times stronger without transforming, merging, drawing out dormant power, or near-death power-ups. So, no.

BUT DBGT follows the anime(counting movies) not the manga. There's no way to include manga facts lol

But the manga statements that put Goku < Gohan are still there in the anime. And then, we get anime-only statements that put Goku > Gohan. So, yeah, I can disregard them.

[Mjb1985]

Yea I think everyone is more or less maxed out at the end of the Buu Saga.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Yea I think everyone is more or less maxed out at the end of the Buu Saga.

Yeah, except for Goten & Trunks.

[PerfectFreeza]

Metal-Cooler(post-1st repair) vs. Android 18.
How will that go?

[Mjb1985]

I view M6 as powers that equal to that of mid Androids Saga training. So I'm giving 18 a huge edge here.

I think Metal Cooler only tops out around Android 15 or so personally.

[Kamiccolo9]

Assuming that M6 takes place in the 10 days before the Cell Games like Daizenshuu 6 says, then Cooler stomps.
Assuming that M6 takes place during the Android Arc, I'd say that Cooler still wins, due to how he dominated the fight with the two Super Saiyans. It took everything Goku and Vegeta had to beat him, and this was a haxxed Goku, seeing as in the Android Arc, Goku was weaker than Vegeta, who was able to put up a good fight against 18.

[PerfectFreeza]

Why should it be haxed Goku?
Goku and Vegeta seemed to be about equal, with Vegeta being a bit stronger, evidenced by Metal-Cooler actually being somewhat hurt by Vegeta's kicks, unlike with Goku's direct punch and kick, where he just budged.

[Mjb1985]

Oh I definitely don't think that M6 occurred within the 10 day gap. No no no. Lol. Goku is using Kaioken in a Freeza Saga manner for christ's sake! The drawing style is Freeza style still. That is definitely one of the more questionable pieces of logic I've ever heard.

[Kamiccolo9]

Why should it be haxed Goku?
Goku and Vegeta seemed to be about equal, with Vegeta being a bit stronger, evidenced by Metal-Cooler actually being somewhat hurt by Vegeta's kicks, unlike with Goku's direct punch and kick, where he just budged.

Every time Cooler hit Vegeta, he either sent him flying, or brought him to his knees. Goku managed to put up a fight.
And later, when Cooler was stealing their energy, Goku was still conscious, while Vegeta was not, implying that Goku had more energy to take. Then Vegeta woke up, both went SSJ, but Vegeta couldn't hold the form after attacking, while Goku was being strangled by Cooler without losing the form.
More to the point, Cooler calls Goku the strongest, and doesn't change his mind once Vegeta shows up. It's pretty clear that Goku is stronger in this move.

[Mjb1985]

I don't know, I think Vegeta is right up there with Goku. I think this is the time when Vegeta has just caught up to Goku and over the next year or so he finally surpasses him.

[Kamiccolo9]

I don't know, I think Vegeta is right up there with Goku. I think this is the time when Vegeta has just caught up to Goku and over the next year or so he finally surpasses him.

They may be close, but Vegeta does nothing in this movie that Goku doesn't do, and Goku can at least take a hit without falling over. Add in Toei's excessive fondness for Goku, and you have a Goku that's much stronger than his anime/manga counterpart.

[PerfectFreeza]

Cooler tanked everything Goku gave him though.He even tanked Goku's Kamehameha.
And Goku really didn't put any better fight.He only kept fighting after a gut punch,a throw and getting choked to near death.
It's also possible, that Vegeta spent a lot more ki, than Goku did.Vegeta is the one, that finished Metal-Cooler with his beam spam, so it's possible he was more tired.
Also, Vegeta outright leaves, while Yajirobe needs to give Goku Senzu bean.
I don't ever recall him calling Goku was the strongest.
Goku being Metal-Cooler might be the fondness you are talking about.He does that in M7 as well, yet Piccolo is clearly the strongest there.

[Kamiccolo9]

Cooler tanked everything Goku gave him though.He even tanked Goku's Kamehameha.
And Goku really didn't put any better fight.He only kept fighting after a gut punch,a throw and getting choked to near death.
It's also possible, that Vegeta spent a lot more ki, than Goku did.Vegeta is the one, that finished Metal-Cooler with his beam spam, so it's possible he was more tired.
Also, Vegeta outright leaves, while Yajirobe needs to give Goku Senzu bean.
I don't ever recall him calling Goku was the strongest.
Goku being Metal-Cooler might be the fondness you are talking about.He does that in M7 as well, yet Piccolo is clearly the strongest there.

Just like he tanked everything from Vegeta, including that head kick.
The point is, Goku took hits from Cooler, and kept fighting. Cooler sent Vegeta flying twice, got him in a leg lock, and every time he hit Vegeta, Vegeta bent over in pain. Goku was able to actually engage in a fistfight with Cooler.
It's possible about Vegeta spending more ki, but even before he did that, Goku managed to stay conscious throughout the energy absorbing process.
Cooler called Goku the strongest right before the fight, as Mjb 1985 pointed out to me the other day.

Back on topic, Metal Cooler manhandled Vegeta, who was able to put up a fight against 18. So Cooler should be able to beat 18.

[PerfectFreeza]

But he didn't tank his hits, like Goku's.
He actually looked in pain, when Vegeta kicked him after rushing at him from the distance.
He only took about 1-2 hits from Metal-Cooler though, before getting choked.
Fist fight?That's the Pre-Repair Metal-Cooler you are talking about.
He spent more ki before they even got dragged into the Big Ghette Star.
There is also evidence of that, when Goku sits up way earlier before Vegeta.
Could you please provide me the quote?I saw the movie with subtitles and I never have seen him say that.

[RandomGuy96]

Metal Cooler beats 18 with complete ease. We know that 18 isn't THAT much stronger than Vegeta, and mostly won due to the stamina issue, while Metal Cooler tanked his hits and annihilated him in ten seconds. There's also 17's statement that Vegeta, Piccolo, and Trunks would be too much for 18, while Goku and Vegeta clearly weren't too much for Metal Cooler. On top of that, Piccolo was explicitly fused in that movie.

Cooler stomps.

[Kamiccolo9]

But he didn't tank his hits, like Goku's.
He actually looked in pain, when Vegeta kicked him after rushing at him from the distance.
He only took about 1-2 hits from Metal-Cooler though, before getting choked.
Fist fight?That's the Pre-Repair Metal-Cooler you are talking about.
He spent more ki before they even got dragged into the Big Ghette Star.
There is also evidence of that, when Goku sits up way earlier before Vegeta.
Could you please provide me the quote?I saw the movie with subtitles and I never have seen him say that.

Yes he did. If that kick had actually managed to do something, he wouldn't have been able to get him with that leg lock right after Vegeta kicked him.
Goku took 3 hits from Cooler right after he repaired himself, and managed to remain standing and fire off a Kamehameha, and managed to deflect numerous small blasts. Vegeta just went down whenever Cooler hit him.
As for the quote, I'm taking Mjb 1985's word on that; I haven't actually seen the quote myself. I'd ask him.

[PerfectFreeza]

Where was he explictly stated to be fused?
That kick actually made him move his entire body.

Spoiler:

Unlike with Goku, who's kick barely made him budge.

Spoiler:

Goku only took a gut punch, a kick and a throw.Then he got choked, after deflecting said small ki blasts.
Vegeta also took about the same amount of hits.First he got punched, then he got his legs crushed by Cooler.He was then able to shoot a Bing Bang attack on Cooler(and Goku)
He then took a gut kick and a punch at Goku.

[Kamiccolo9]

Where was he explictly stated to be fused?
That kick actually made him move his entire body.

Spoiler:

Unlike with Goku, who's kick barely made him budge.

Spoiler:

Goku only took a gut punch, a kick and a throw.Then he got choked, after deflecting said small ki blasts.
Vegeta also took about the same amount of hits.First he got punched, then he got his legs crushed by Cooler.He was then able to shoot a Bing Bang attack on Cooler(and Goku)
He then took a gut kick and a punch at Goku.

Goku was also being strangled during that kick, while Vegeta had a full on charge behind his. That's hardly the best comparison.
Goku took those three attacks successively , and still managed a Kamehameha. Vegeta was left gasping for air, or knocked across the horizon, or screaming in pain (for the leg lock) every time Cooler hit him. Vegeta got sent flying, charged back, got sent flying again, charged back with a kick, got caught in a leg lock, got saved by Goku, attempted a Big Bang, got knee'd in the stomach, got thrown into Goku, then got blitzed by Cooler's attack. Goku managed to take 3 of Cooler's blows, and counterattack.

[IAmAwesome]

Oh boy! I love these type of fourms. .

Dr.Gero vs Freeza.

I have Gero win this one. Gero was shocked to see a SSJ power but at the same time calm until Goku started fighting. Gero if he some-how get his hand on Freeza or Freezer throw some ki then Gero got this in the bag. Through if no energy is taken then Freeza would win because once again Gero was shocked to see SSJ's power. I don't think Goku got much stronger since Namek saga. Daizenshuu have at 3 million in Namek Saga. I place him at 3.5 million maybe 4 at the ANdroid arc. I place Gero at 30 million since he wanted to take Goku's energy for power.