Official On-Going DBZ 2013 Movie Thread: "Battle of Gods"

[TheMightyOzaru]

Kaioken is the definition of too much ki for your body can strain you. Same applies for everything else. Gokus body can't hold an unlimited amount of ki. His body will or already has hit its limit and so will the amount of ki his body can hold. Unless you believe he can hold an unlimited amount of ki ala fanboys of Broly believe he can. Ki is what overcomes the bodies limit, but the body can only hold a certain amount of ki before it becomes a strain on it.

And no Goku said it because training under the same conditions can only work for so long. It's the same in real life as I bet eventually 10 pound weights became nothing after a while and useless to you. Do you think Goku would get a huge increase training in 100x gravity again. I doubt it as it is now a pointless training regiment unless he ups the gravity.

He continually powers himself up to sustain it. The body and Ki have little to know relation. Goku can barely handle 10 tons yet can hold the force equivalent to busting planets? Yeah no. The body has nothing to do with his current limitations. If he exceeds them yes he will hurt himself but that's really the only way they are related. Goku also implies he could get stronger so that point is ultimately pointless. Plus the point of his training is to maintain ssj not increase his base limits. So yeah it would be near pointless to back in and srain on your body for no reason.

[elyas11]

So as suggested by Chuquita, another Super Saiyan God design. Added those blue light things you see in the trailer and, as Goku powers up, in the trailer, his hair seems to grow kinda into the length seen in the image below. Not sure if anyone noticed.. Soooo I took on this design.

[dbzfan7]

He continually powers himself up to sustain it. The body and Ki have little to know relation. Goku can barely handle 10 tons yet can hold the force equivalent to busting planets? Yeah no. The body has nothing to do with his current limitations. If he exceeds them yes he will hurt himself but that's really the only way they are related. Goku also implies he could get stronger so that point is ultimately pointless. Plus the point of his training is to maintain ssj not increase his base limits. So yeah it would be near pointless to back in and out strain on your body for no reason.

He implies he could toughen up more, but it wouldn't make a difference. That is also why Vegeta couldn't surpass Goku after going in a second time. He has a whole year to get stronger, and its not even that noticeable. No one even comments on Vegeta after his second time. As shown the Body can only hold a certain amount of Ki. Goku can't get continuously stronger when his body has hit its limit. His ki can't keep increasing if his body can't handle it. Hence why he can't get stronger as much as he wants. As Toriyama said the body has it's limits. One limit is how much ki it can hold. Goku can't go beyond how much ki he can hold without transformations. Goku doesn't have an unlimited ki source. He can't get stronger when his body is stuck at its limit.

Anyway I'm opening a DBZ and limits in the in-universe thread.

So as suggested by Chuquita, another Super Saiyan God design. Added those blue light things you see in the trailer and, as Goku powers up, in the trailer, his hair seems to grow kinda into the length seen in the image below. Not sure if anyone noticed.. Soooo I took on this design.

http://i1325.photobucket.com/albums/u64 ... 9b2497.jpg

I like it. Better than the others I have seen.

[bleed0range]

Regarding Ultimate Gohan: It dawned on me that perhaps the "common sense of Z" comment from earlier is why Yūsuke Watanabe referred to it as a "spoiler" in his reply. Maybe Birus messes with him. That or they just f'd up. lol. Either way it's been pretty funny to see this unfold and I'm glad they at least have finally commented on it.

[Marco Polo]

Ultimate Gohan confirmed for the movie = Best news about the movie since the announcement of Toriyama's involvement

I'm mean it's just his hair color, I'm sure he'll be fighting EXACTLY the same way regardless of that color, but still... End-of-DBZ Gohan looks so much better with black hair than yellow hair.

[bleed0range]

I dunno, now I'm starting to think they didn't actually forget... maybe. Oh I don't know!

[TheMightyOzaru]

Umm yes he can. It's ultimately absurd to suggest Goku's body limits his ki's output. You can't just hold 10 tons up as your maximum yet withstand more 53 quadrillion megatons of force. The energy is stored somewhere in his body and when he exceeds the storage space by going beyond his limits he hurts his body. He can expand said "storage space" through training. Goku's character is about breaking every limit he comes across. If he can't get stronger, he has hit a limit which he cannot break and thus his character is defeated. Suggesting Goku cannot get stronger is quite frankly an irritating notion that just annoys me. I do not accept the idea that he has some end limit.

[Chuquita]

So as suggested by Chuquita, another Super Saiyan God design. Added those blue light things you see in the trailer and, as Goku powers up, in the trailer, his hair seems to grow kinda into the length seen in the image below. Not sure if anyone noticed.. Soooo I took on this design.

http://i1325.photobucket.com/albums/u64 ... 9b2497.jpg

Oh cool! X3 I like the mixture of ssj hair forms, and I really like that blue aura.

[Nex Carnifex]

I wish it looked kind of like a monkey like SS4, I just like the nod to Goku's origins as Wukong.

[dbzfan7]

Umm yes he can. It's ultimately absurd to suggest Goku's body limits his ki's output. You can't just hold 10 tons up as your maximum yet withstand more 53 quadrillion megatons of force. The energy is stored somewhere in his body and when he exceeds the storage space by going beyond his limits he hurts his body. He can expand said "storage space" through training. Goku's character is about breaking every limit he comes across. If he can't get stronger, he has hit a limit which he cannot break and thus his character is defeated. Suggesting Goku cannot get stronger is quite frankly an irritating notion that just annoys me. I do not accept the idea that he has some end limit.

He can get stronger through different training regiments. But his body can only hold a certain amount of ki. Kaioken proves his base body can only hold a certain amount of ki. When his body hits his limit, so does the amount of ki it can hold. Do you honestly believe that when his body hits its limit, Goku can increase his ki as much as he wants. How do you think he was able to move beyond x3 Kaioken. His body moved up in how much ki it could hold. If Goku's body hits a limit. So does the amount of ki he can hold. If that weren't the case he could go Kaioken infinity. Goku can't raise his ki beyond the abilities his body can contain without straining himself

Kaio-Ken
First Appearance: Chapter 226
Category: ki manipulation
People: Son Goku
Special Characteristics: A technique that instantly amplifies the ki inside one’s body, multiplying all that person’s abilities, including power, speed, defense, etc. Since it makes one capable of utilizing battle power many times their own ability, it is extraordinarily effective during battles with formidable opponents. However, because it is impossible to multiply excessively far beyond one’s abilities, experimenting with an unreasonably high Kaio-Ken might destroy one’s own body. When the user’s battle power is 8,000, their limit is x2, and when they are at 3 million the limit is x10. However, since real battles are harsh, Goku often had to use Kaio-Ken above those limits. The Kaio-Ken’s designer is the North Kaio, but Goku was the first person to be able to master it. (Daizenshuu 2, p.212/ Daizenshuu 4, p.113)
Anime: The first movie it was used in was “The World’s Strongest Guy”, when it was shown during the battle with Dr. Uiro (Daizenshuu 6, p.52). In “Super Decisive Battle for the Earth”, Goku challenged Tullece with Kaio-Ken x10 (Daizenshuu 6, p.60). In the movies after that, the “~x” number mark wasn’t used.

As you can see the body has a set limit for how much ki it can hold before it becomes a strain. Just like Kaioken, if you go beyond the amount of ki your current body can handle, it could cause harm. Goku has to increase the strength of his body to be able to increase the amount of ki it can hold. If Gokus body hit its maximum limit. That means his ki can only go only up to a point that doesn't destroy his body. If he could keep his body strength the same but unlimitedly increase the amount of ki it holds. Then he could do Kaioken Infinity. But he can't as the body can't hold only hold a certain amount of ki.

Also I made the thread to move this argument. So take it to the in-universe forum.

[AnimeMaakuo]

.

[FindKenshi]

Some of this discussion looks like it belongs over at In Universe.

[Chuquita]

Do you guys think we've seen the last of the spoilers until March 12th's early screening of the movie? Magazine-wise, there's still one issue of Saikyo Jump and 2 Weekly Jump issues left before that screening. Think they'll manage to keep ssjg's design under wraps for twelve more days?

[Cold Skin]

Do you guys think we've seen the last of the spoilers until March 12th's early screening of the movie? Magazine-wise, there's still one issue of Saikyo Jump and 2 Weekly Jump issues left before that screening. Think they'll manage to keep ssjg's design under wraps for twelve more days?

I'm sure they will, no one will see Super Saiyan God before the early screening!
It's meant to be a huge heart-pounding moment, when the first viewers watching the movie will be the first out-of-staff people to find out what it's like and will already start imagining how they'll communicate about it in the next half-hour, as soon as they get out of the room!

Descriptions and drawings will flow over the web and splash us all with excitement to see an official render of it (either through JUMP, the website or the movie itself)!

[goku the krump dancer]

If SSJGod happens to be temporary I wonder if it would be something of an Entity that temporarily possesses Goku, since going by the track listing right after SSJGod is born Goku is right back in a pinch lol.

Also with SSJG I think it would be cool if the movie tries to connect the three major races of the cosmos (Namekians, Saiyans, Changlings/Freeza people) together in a sort of metaphorical since. Personally I kinda liked where Toyble was going with his AF comic when he was calling the Super Saiyans "Warriors of Light" or something like that and they had the power to recharge the Dragon balls. It Sorta connects the Saiyans with the Namekians in that they (the Nameks) have the gift of creating the Dragon Balls while the Saiyans have the ability to charge/restore them.

[NeoKING]

Do you guys think we've seen the last of the spoilers until March 12th's early screening of the movie? Magazine-wise, there's still one issue of Saikyo Jump and 2 Weekly Jump issues left before that screening. Think they'll manage to keep ssjg's design under wraps for twelve more days?

In two weeks, including the first screening, everything about the film will leak online.

[Hellspawn28]

I personally think that SSj God will likely be something that none of us would've expected then a gold version of SSj4 or another version of SSj3. It's Toriyama after all.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Umm yes he can. It's ultimately absurd to suggest Goku's body limits his ki's output. You can't just hold 10 tons up as your maximum yet withstand more 53 quadrillion megatons of force. The energy is stored somewhere in his body and when he exceeds the storage space by going beyond his limits he hurts his body. He can expand said "storage space" through training. Goku's character is about breaking every limit he comes across. If he can't get stronger, he has hit a limit which he cannot break and thus his character is defeated. Suggesting Goku cannot get stronger is quite frankly an irritating notion that just annoys me. I do not accept the idea that he has some end limit.

He can get stronger through different training regiments. But his body can only hold a certain amount of ki. Kaioken proves his base body can only hold a certain amount of ki. When his body hits his limit, so does the amount of ki it can hold. Do you honestly believe that when his body hits its limit, Goku can increase his ki as much as he wants. How do you think he was able to move beyond x3 Kaioken. His body moved up in how much ki it could hold. If Goku's body hits a limit. So does the amount of ki he can hold. If that weren't the case he could go Kaioken infinity. Goku can't raise his ki beyond the abilities his body can contain without straining himself

Kaio-Ken
First Appearance: Chapter 226
Category: ki manipulation
People: Son Goku
Special Characteristics: A technique that instantly amplifies the ki inside one’s body, multiplying all that person’s abilities, including power, speed, defense, etc. Since it makes one capable of utilizing battle power many times their own ability, it is extraordinarily effective during battles with formidable opponents. However, because it is impossible to multiply excessively far beyond one’s abilities, experimenting with an unreasonably high Kaio-Ken might destroy one’s own body. When the user’s battle power is 8,000, their limit is x2, and when they are at 3 million the limit is x10. However, since real battles are harsh, Goku often had to use Kaio-Ken above those limits. The Kaio-Ken’s designer is the North Kaio, but Goku was the first person to be able to master it. (Daizenshuu 2, p.212/ Daizenshuu 4, p.113)
Anime: The first movie it was used in was “The World’s Strongest Guy”, when it was shown during the battle with Dr. Uiro (Daizenshuu 6, p.52). In “Super Decisive Battle for the Earth”, Goku challenged Tullece with Kaio-Ken x10 (Daizenshuu 6, p.60). In the movies after that, the “~x” number mark wasn’t used.

As you can see the body has a set limit for how much ki it can hold before it becomes a strain. Just like Kaioken, if you go beyond the amount of ki your current body can handle, it could cause harm. Goku has to increase the strength of his body to be able to increase the amount of ki it can hold. If Gokus body hit its maximum limit. That means his ki can only go only up to a point that doesn't destroy his body. If he could keep his body strength the same but unlimitedly increase the amount of ki it holds. Then he could do Kaioken Infinity. But he can't as the body can't hold only hold a certain amount of ki.

Also I made the thread to move this argument. So take it to the in-universe forum.

You are completely missing the point I'm trying to make. I'm not going to keep repeating something good day sir.

[dbzfan7]

You are completely missing the point I'm trying to make. I'm not going to keep repeating something good day sir.

I understand your point. I'm pointing out how the body can't hold more ki than it can already handle. Goku could only hold 20x his ki during the freeza saga. I agree that he can increase the amount of space he can hold through training. However that is done by increasing the strength of his body so it will be tough enough to handle a larger output. But I guess we can call it as different opinions and leave it at that.

[Influence]

Do you guys think we've seen the last of the spoilers until March 12th's early screening of the movie? Magazine-wise, there's still one issue of Saikyo Jump and 2 Weekly Jump issues left before that screening. Think they'll manage to keep ssjg's design under wraps for twelve more days?

They're most likely going to keep it secret till then.

I just don't understand anything based on the trailers. None of it adds up chronologically or is logical at all. How is Goku in SSJ able to fight Bills in space when he got stopped by his finger as SSJ3? There's no reason for Bills to lower his power. And it makes no sense how Goku is powering up to SSJ god with his gi intact when he's also seen with it damaged in base form when him and Bills were staring each other down. Trailers then again often tend to do this to throw you off the real plot.

If SSJGod happens to be temporary I wonder if it would be something of an Entity that temporarily possesses Goku, since going by the track listing right after SSJGod is born Goku is right back in a pinch lol.

The thought of it being a possessing entity is scary lol. What's even scarier is that we have no information on ssjgod whatsoever, only Goku powering up into him.

I wonder what triggers it as well. I'm thinking Blls makes Goku really really anger and he explodes. I can imagine it being as dramatic and epic as when Goku first went SSJ against Freeza. That's what I'm expecting actually.