The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[CatouttaHell]

I was unaware that Goku had Elder Kai's ritual preformed on him, although Mystic Goku would explain GT quite well...hm.

Goku and co probably just learn how to access more and more of their power in base IMO. P123 can probably explain this way better than I can whenever he next posts in here.

Why Toriyama has anything to with this GT thing?

Well it's implied in Z as well.

SSjin Gotenks (Pre) >= SSjin 3 Goku > Base Gotenks (Pre) > SSjin 2 Goku doesn't really make any sense unless there's either a gargantuan SSjin 3 boost or a tiny SSjin boost.

Base Gohan (Post) > SSjin/SSjin 2 Gohan (Pre) as well.

[p123]

Elder Kaioshin bringing up how Super Saiyan is the wrong way of doing things, seems to be in line with the uber Base powers in the Buu Saga. Seeing as how the Base Fusion powers also seem to be even more uberly strong, it seems that the Saiyans are learning how to access their full potential a lot more in base than beforehand.

Basically, a transformation, is not really needed, and the Saiyan should be able to access his full power in base, it's just that he doesn't know how. Which pretty much throws our views on transformations into the garbage.

Gohan then accessing his full hidden potential in base, and that being above a SSJ3 fused fighter, enhances that idea as well.

[Rocketman]

Goku and co probably just learn how to access more and more of their power in base IMO.

Sounds like something you're making up to justify your numbers to me. There's no indication of this at all, and Elder Kai's powerup wouldn't be interesting if this was true.

[CatouttaHell]

Sounds like something you're making up to justify your numbers to me. There's no indication of this at all, and Elder Kai's powerup wouldn't be interesting if this was true.

General Rild says Goku hasn't even been using half of his power until this point after he goes SSjin, implying a 2.5x boost.

Then Great Ape, which is a 10x boost, is implied on two occasions to be above SSjin 3.

Base Goku > SSjin Gohan > Base Gohan = SSjin Goten-Baby > Base Goten-Baby > SSjin Goten is completely insane with a 50x boost...

[p123]

He's really not making it up. There's really a good basis for....


Base GT Goku = GT Oob > General Rild > Kid Boo = Oob Rage Burst > Oob = Goku ( End of Z ) > Good Boo



As insane as it sounds, there is a lot more logic to it than you would think... Numbers are quite irrelevant, as there has never been anyone able to tie this altogether yet, so , quite irrelevant at this stage of the game...

[Rocketman]

GT, nonsensical? Now that I can't believe.

[Kaboom]

I think the point is that there IS no "logic," because it's GT, which has a habit of just doing whatever the hell it wants to make Goku look good. We all know this. But coming up with overcomplicated ass-pull theories in order to justify GT's baloney is, quite possibly, even sillier.

Now... isn't this thread supposed to be about "versus" matchups? Do I have to come up with one again?

[p123]

The problem is, End of Z may be equally nonsensical. Which is not really something people have been picking up on.

Goku expects Oob to be the strongest at the tournament, and Oob meets his expectations.

[CatouttaHell]

The problem is, End of Z may be equally nonsensical. Which is not really something people have been picking up on.

Agreed, I really don't see how GT is any more nonsensical than Z.

The Boo arc's implications are just as crazy as GT's, but people just pretend the Boo arc ones don't exist and call GT nonsensical based on the ones in it.

[p123]

Ok how about this one...


GT Goku vs Gotenks Post Rosat Who wins?

[CatouttaHell]

Depends on which part of GT.

I go by Base Goku (M2) > SSjin Goku (Imegga) > Base Gotenks (Post) > Base Goku (Imegga) = Pure Boo

So he'd lose if it's Initial Goku but would win easily if it's Goku from M2 or later IMO.

[Rocketman]

GT Goku, because Goku is unstoppable in GT.

Assuming he can be cut off from his source of unending power, Gotenks stomps him.

[p123]

I still am leaning towards SSJ3 Goku being stronger than Base Gotenks Post, I'm not 100% on that though. Do you think Ultimate Gohan is still the standard bearer in GT 15 years later? I don't think there's any restriction on Goku, and his SSJ3 seems to be somewhere around Super Saiyan Vegetto, if Baby Vegeta only needs to power up to be above Super Saiyan Vegetto, you know? I could see SSJ3 Goku being somewhere around Buuhan or something in GT. What do you think?

[Kaboom]

GT Goku vs Gotenks Post Rosat Who wins?

By "GT Logic," Goku wins easily and practically effortlessly because he is a shining god among gods who is 50,000,000x stronger than everyone else from Z, apparently, except for Vegetto of course.

By normal logic, however, Goku still wins, but Gotenks can put up a pretty darn good fight. Closest comparable fight from the manga I can think of is Vegeta vs Recoome. Except Goku isn't built like a tank like Recoome, so Gotenks' efforts would actually have some sort of lasting effect other than superficial scuffs and bumps. This, of course, is only because I don't think Gotenks was too much stronger than Goku overall during the Boo arc... maybe only half-again as much; enough that Goku doesn't stand a chance against him or Evil Boo, but give him 20-ish years... yeah, he can probably surpass that.


Okay, here's a match-up which I think is pretty interesting, and as a bonus doesn't involve the Boo arc or freakin' GT.

Let's say Vegeta didn't kill Dodoria when he did on Namek. He just never happened upon him while everyone was getting chased around. So later, after Vegeta gets beaten up by Zarbon then healed and then escapes Freeza's ship, both Zarbon AND Dodoria are sent after him, and Vegeta has to fight both of them at once.

Vegeta and transformed Zarbon were pretty close in power, if not even, and Vegeta won mainly by his skills, tactics, and good ol' fashioned Saiyan tenacity and brutality. But will backup from Dodoria be enough for Zarbon to overcome Vegeta's non-power advantages?

[CatouttaHell]

I have SSjin 2 Goku above Gohan-Boo but that's because I go by Base Vegetto >>> Gohan-Boo.

The Anime suggests Base Vegetto can take hits from Gohan-Boo without taking damage and nothing really contradicts it. He even says that he underestimated himself.

I love Goku but I honestly can't see how SSjin 3 Goku can be above Base Gotenks Post.

Base Gotenks (Post) is implied to blow Piccolo's expectations for SSjin Gotenks out of the water. He should be at least powerful enough to completely tank any attack from SSjin Gotenks (Pre) IMO.

It's possible to have Goku anywhere if you go by the implications of Base Goku (M2) > Super Mega Cannon Sigma > Neji > SSjin Goku (Imegga.)

[p123]

Yea, that was actually quite surprising that they didn't have Goku topple the mighty giant that is Vegetto, well at least they waited until Super Saiyan 4.


That's a very interesting match up Kaboom...

Well, we know that Dodoria and Zarbon can take Vegeta initially on Namek, and I don't think that's including Zarbon's transformation.


Vegeta seems to be equal with Zarbon, and has to resort to strategy and tactics to ensure his win. With Dodoria's help, the Prince probably won't be able to handle a transformed Zarbon and Dodoria at the same time.

[Piccolo Daimao]

Let's say Vegeta didn't kill Dodoria when he did on Namek. He just never happened upon him while everyone was getting chased around. So later, after Vegeta gets beaten up by Zarbon then healed and then escapes Freeza's ship, both Zarbon AND Dodoria are sent after him, and Vegeta has to fight both of them at once.

Vegeta and transformed Zarbon were pretty close in power, if not even, and Vegeta won mainly by his skills, tactics, and good ol' fashioned Saiyan tenacity and brutality. But will backup from Dodoria be enough for Zarbon to overcome Vegeta's non-power advantages?

Vegeta only killed transformed Zarbon because he caught him off-guard with a cheap shot, so he was probably marginally stronger than Zarbon. With Dodoria as back-up, Vegeta can't overcome the both of them, and is destroyed.

[Fox666]

Actually it seems for me that Zarbon was still the better than Vegeta

Chapter: 268 (DBZ 74), P8.1-5
Vegeta: “Looks like my preemptive attack had an effect…Your stamina’s fallen quite a bit, hasn’t it? Zarbon, your death is close.”

[p123]

Damn Monster Zarbon is a beast.

[Li'l Lemmy]

I'm going to call it a toss-up, personally... albeit with slight favor towards the prince. Vegeta's at a possible disadvantage in numbers, which could and should count for something if Zarbon and Dororia decide to make use of that in any sort of strategic sense. But on the other hand, Vegeta was able to overwhelm Dodoria so easily (in their initial confrontation) as to make him something of a non-issue-- so much so that even Vegeta himself was made to marvel at his own power. And that was before Vegeta even encountered Zarbon at all... meaning, before healing.

Was there any indication during their confrontation that would indicate Dodoria as anything other than completely powerless against Vegeta?

There's also something to be said for the fact that, when paired up, it's possible that Zarbon and Dodoria would suffer from overconfidence. And Vegeta would make use of that in a heartbeat.


~Da Lemmy