DragonBall Z Abridged

[KaiserNeko]

How is Freeza a similar character to Vegeta?

Freeza's entire character is that of an aristocratic, megalomaniacal tyrant, born into a position of power without any effort put forward on his behalf besides the management of his vast army. He's a condescending, pampered child with a taste for genocide and the finer things in life, whose greed is made all the more terrifying by his unrepentant cruelty and power. He's a the god king, standing atop a pile of civilizations he has seen conquered and plundered. The way he converses with others, conducts his business, and deals with failure are very different from Vegeta.

Vegeta is a prince without a kingdom, a warrior without a country, and while he shares Freeza's penchant for merciless bloodshed and the conquer of other races, he's much more roughneck than Freeza, and his pride comes from a very different place. As do his anger and sense of urgency. A lot of this stems from his relationship with both Goku and Freeza. He literally slaved away under the rule of Freeza, was denied his birthright, actually saw his own share of action, and all the while? He wasn't even the top soldier in Freeza's army. The Ginyu Force, Zarbon, and Dodoria all outranked him. His struggles were all his own and we see those in his character as he's developed over the course of many, many chapters.

While their goals early on are similar (find the DragonBalls), that means Vegeta is Pilaf. Or King Piccolo.

The reason I call MetaCooler a ripoff of Cyborg Freeza is because Cooler had little right existing in the first place. Besides sounding a bit deeper and less refined, and having a brand new Super Shredder transformation, he was just... Freeza again, but without the time for him to grow on you. Bringing him back with mechanical enhancements-- literally having his remains recovered in space, no less-- so shortly after Freeza had done the same just reeked of laziness. Of course, the deal with his minions, the Big Giametti Star, and his clones was very different, and his mechanization is definitely where the comparison falls off. But it's impossible not to notice the prime similarity from the outset: Another Freeza clan member was found in space and mechanized to survive, literally within a year of it happening in the manga... and three months in the anime. That's lazy, regardless of any of the other changes made.

Of course, most of the movies share a similar problem: They were cash grabs, made on a limited budget, with minimal runtimes, and absolutely no freedom to expand the universe or develop the characters in any meaningful manner; especially considering their dubious positions in the timeline, effecting and often outright nullifying their effects on the canon... and they both steal their plot points and characters from previous stories. Hell, Cooler's Armored Squadron is just a discount Ginyu Force. At the very least, Cooler was able to give us a couple of decent concepts, but his first movie is passable and his second movie is ugly as sin, and chock full of holes.

But I digress.

Broly Second Coming is a boring mess because nobody seemed to know how to write Gohan to be a truly interesting character besides SON OF GOKU, Goten and Trunks are children characters which are already difficult to get right (and both struggle with their own characterizations in terms of depth and motive), Broly is a terrible character in both of his sequels, and Videl was wasted... as she always was. [/opinions]

[jcogginsa]

Honestly I can't begrudge the movies for ripping off canon villains. So many of them do so that it's too be expected. It's like complaining about X-men Movies having Wolverine in them (Yes, i know not all X-Men Movies have Wolverine. Not all DBZ movies ripoff canon villains)

As for Cooler's lack of difference from Frieza, that's true. But I have the mind of a Fanfic Writer, so I see characters less in terms of how they are shown and more in terms of how they COULD be used. The kind of potential they have.

Cooler for instance, I think he offers possibilities that Frieza doesn't. For example, Cooler's the kind of guy i can see Siding with the heroes to face a greater threat (Broly or Bojack for instance).

But that's my personal image of the character, so I can see why some wouldn't like him

[RandomGuy96]

How is Freeza a similar character to Vegeta?

Freeza's entire character is that of an aristocratic, megalomaniacal tyrant, born into a position of power without any effort put forward on his behalf besides the management of his vast army.He's a condescending, pampered child with a taste for genocide and the finer things in life, whose greed is made all the more terrifying by his unrepentant cruelty and power. He's a the god king, standing atop a pile of civilizations he has seen conquered and plundered.

You just perfectly described Saiyan arc Vegeta.

1. Vegeta's introduced as a saiyan noble who has a distaste for low-class scum like Goku.
2. He spends most of the Nappa vs Z-gang fight laughing at the protagonists and treating the battle as a game, while occasionally throwing out a faux-polite compliment (e.g. "Good plan, I'm sure it'll work").
3. He immediately dismisses the idea that hard work is worth anything, instead saying that, as he was born with noble blood, a low-class wretch like Kakarot cannot possibly challenge him.
4. His whole MO is to commit genocide and sell the planet to the highest bidder; this is despite the fact that even one such sale should be enough for him to live a life of permanent luxury.
5. He's introduced in the ruins of a planet he depopulated, and is so powerful and feared that literal gods are cautious of him.

Vegeta is a prince without a kingdom, a warrior without a country, and while he shares Freeza's penchant for merciless bloodshed and the conquer of other races, he's much more roughneck than Freeza, and his pride comes from a very different place.

1. Their respective feelings of pride both come from the same place: being the most powerful beings in the universe, who no one else can challenge.
2. How is he more of a "roughneck"? He's introduced as a noble and a businessman, who prefers throwing out sarcastic quips while his henchmen beat on people rather than getting his own hands dirty.

As does his anger and sense of urgency.

He literally decided to wait three hours in the middle of a fight because he was amused by the idea that Goku could pose a threat to him. The first time he gets angry is when Goku actually manages to inflict damage on him with Kaio-Ken; in the same scenario, Freeza also freaked the fuck out and went into a murderous rage.

While their goals early on are similar (find the DragonBalls), that means Vegeta is Pilaf. Or King Piccolo.

King Piccolo wasn't an alien prince who committed genocide so he could sell planets to the highest bidder, nor was he a childish brat when he got outclassed, nor was he deceptively short and harmless looking. He didn't attempt to blow up the planet when outmatched, he wasn't abusive to his henchmen, he wasn't the strongest being in the universe, he didn't get hit by a Genki-Dama only to come back injured but okay, he wasn't temporarily overpowered (but not defeated) by a max-level Kaio-Ken from Goku, he doesn't have a weak spot in the form of his tail, said tail doesn't get cut off, Goku doesn't choose to spare him for the sake of a good fight after he gets an opportunity to finish him, the list goes on.

The similarities are nowhere near as pronounced as they are in the case of Freeza and Vegeta.

The reason I call MetaCooler a ripoff of Cyborg Freeza is because Cooler had little right existing in the first place. Besides sounding a bit deeper and less refined, and having a brand new Super Shredder transformation, he was just... Freeza again, but without the time for him to grow on you.

Cooler had a no-nonsense personality in contrast to Freeza, with a considerably less lackadaisical approach to things and a sense of family honor that Freeza seemed to lack (like the difference between Raditz/Nappa and Vegeta). He was also nicer to his henchmen and less prone to fits of rage. He's not really a "copy" aside from sharing a handful of stock traits that are shared by every other villainous character.

Not that this has much to do with movie 6 supposedly copying the Mecha Freeza section, mind.

Bringing him back with mechanical enhancements-- literally having his remains recovered in space, no less-- so shortly after Freeza had done the same just reeked of laziness. Of course, the deal with his minions, the Big Giametti Star, and his clones was very different, and his mechanization is definitely where the comparison falls off. But it's impossible not to notice the prime similarity from the outset: Another Freeza clan member was found in space and mechanized to survive, literally within a year of it happening in the manga... and three months in the anime. That's lazy, regardless of any of the other changes made.

Aside from the very basic premise of a character being brought back with cybernetics, there were no similarities between the "Mecha Freeza arc" and movie 6. Literally everything else was different; "supposedly dead villain is now a cyborg" is the full extent of what they have in common. So how is it just copying Freeza? This is like claiming that Cyborg Freeza was shit because he was just a rip-off of Cyborg Tao. Heck, those two plots share a lot more similarities than these two. Cooler- in both incarnations- is about as original as the movie villains get, bar Garlic Jr maybe.

[KaiserNeko]

You just perfectly described Saiyan arc Vegeta.

1. Vegeta's introduced as a saiyan noble who has a distaste for low-class scum like Goku.
2. He spends most of the Nappa vs Z-gang fight laughing at the protagonists and treating the battle as a game, while occasionally throwing out a faux-polite compliment (e.g. "Good plan, I'm sure it'll work").
3. He immediately dismisses the idea that hard work is worth anything, instead saying that, as he was born with noble blood, a low-class wretch like Kakarot cannot possibly challenge him.
4. His whole MO is to commit genocide and sell the planet to the highest bidder; this is despite the fact that even one such sale should be enough for him to live a life of permanent luxury.
5. He's introduced in the ruins of a planet he depopulated, and is so powerful and feared that literal gods are cautious of him.

1. True, but his "nobility" is more blood and birthright than Freeza, who comes off as an evil, super-powered politician in comparison to Vegeta's proud warrior aesthetic. Yes, he looks down on Goku for being a low-class warrior, but Freeza sees no such caste system; he only sees himself as the one true ruler, and all those below him are either to be manipulated and used to his bidding or destroyed. Vegeta, on the other hand, delights more in the thrill of battle and proving he is the strongest. He just has a hard time finding a challenge.

2. Yes, he does play with them. It's a kind of mercenary game to him. Freeza would likely have never even have entertained the thought and finished his business with swift, brutal violence. The way he dealt with the Namekians was formal, but without mercy and with a strict goal in mind; he's playing the aristocrat, when really he's just a psycopathic monster. Vegeta just enjoys the idea of playing with his pray, subsequently working them down to dust, and the idea of proving them that Goku is no challenge. The difference being: Vegeta is entertained by the prospect of toying with them and then finishing them off, while Freeza is more business oriented, though he does revel in bloodshed.

3. He means that hard work has no merit for the weak. Only the truly strong can rise to the top; weaklings will always be weaklings.

4&5. I never said he doesn't enjoy bloodshed. He's a Saiyan warrior, for crying out loud. More importantly, he involves himself directly in said bloodshed; he's the one fighting, he's the one killing, he's the one doing the legwork. While he allows Nappa to waste most of the Earthlings, he does so as a game; it's not so much that he's lazy or above them, he just wants to watch as their hope dwindles down to nothing.

1. Their respective feelings of pride both come from the same place: being the most powerful beings in the universe, who no one else can challenge.
2. How is he more of a "roughneck"? He's introduced as a noble and a businessman, who prefers throwing out sarcastic quips while his henchmen beat on people rather than getting his own hands dirty.

1. Freeza's pride comes from being the ruler of the galaxy as he knows it, a god king among the stars, unchallenged and unabated. Vegeta's pride comes from his race, their inherent aptitude for battle, and his nobility. Freeza doesn't care about his race, he cares about himself. Vegeta finds pride in where he ranks as a warrior, from a warrior race.

2. He's introduced as a man eating a literal (bug) person whilst sitting at a campfire after decimating that (bug) person's race. Yeah, he throws out witty quips, but they're not close to the same kind of flowered up, articulate speech Freeza uses with other characters. Unless you're watching the original dub, in which case... well, that's not Freeza. Hell, Kai Freeza and Vegeta can give you a pretty sharp contrast in just a few lines between the two of them.

And yes, he's a prince. Who murders swaths of people with his own two hands on a frequent basis, eats their bodies at campfires, and is still a soldier regardless. It's not like Freeza likely gave him extravagant accommodations; what part of Vegeta's character, in the entire series, leads you to believe he doesn't train in his downtime? That he drinks wine while standing around and basking in his own importance? Because that's far and away what Freeza does.

He literally decided to wait three hours in the middle of a fight because he was amused by the idea that Goku could pose a threat to him. The first time he gets angry is when Goku actually manages to inflict damage on him with Kaio-Ken; in the same scenario, Freeza also freaked the fuck out and went into a murderous rage.

In regards to that first part, that's not what I meant be urgency. Urgency is the driving force that keeps a character moving and acting. I've already explained how Vegeta's little game is well within character.

As for Freeza's response, it again comes down to the way they act normally: Vegeta is boastful and proud, but Freeza is more refined and condescending. His calm, calculated demeanor is far more terrifying to see break down, because the acid he spits is much more stark in contrast. Vegeta's rage seems more natural, though ferocious. Freeza's is that of a self-entitled, spoiled psychopath who's finally been pushed to the edge.

King Piccolo wasn't an alien prince who committed genocide so he could sell planets to the highest bidder, nor was he a childish brat when he got outclassed, nor was he deceptively short and harmless looking. He didn't attempt to blow up the planet when outmatched, he wasn't abusive to his henchmen, he wasn't the strongest being in the universe, he didn't get hit by a Genki-Dama only to come back injured but okay, he wasn't temporarily overpowered (but not defeated) by a max-level Kaio-Ken from Goku, he doesn't have a weak spot in the form of his tail, said tail doesn't get cut off, Goku doesn't choose to spare him for the sake of a good fight after he gets an opportunity to finish him, the list goes on.

The similarities are nowhere near as pronounced as they are in the case of Freeza and Vegeta.

Vegeta was never the strongest in the universe, and he knew it. He was the pinnacle of the Saiyan race, being brought down by a low-class Saiyan warrior. To him, that's truly humiliating, as it goes against his entire culture.

Vegeta didn't attempt to blow up the planet because he was outmatched; he still had plenty of ways to fight Goku at that point. He did it out of anger and frustration over his humiliation, forcing Goku to either take it head on, or let the planet be destroyed. Freeza did it because it was the only sure way to win at that point.

Freeza was never overpowered at any point by the Kaio-Ken; he held off that Kamehameha with a single hand. Nor does he have a weakness in his tail, though they do get cut/blown off.

Goku spares Vegeta to get another fight, he spares Freeza to let him wallow in his own defeat and out of pity.

... yeah, they were both abusive to their henchmen. But that's just evil bein' evil.

I'll give you the Genki Dama, but that has nothing to do with his actual character... just unfortunately repetitive writing on the behalf of Toriyama.

Cooler had a no-nonsense personality in contrast to Freeza, with a considerably less lackadaisical approach to things and a sense of family honor that Freeza seemed to lack (like the difference between Raditz/Nappa and Vegeta). He was also nicer to his henchmen and less prone to fits of rage. He's not really a "copy" aside from sharing a handful of stock traits that are shared by every other villainous character.

But then he's just... kind of boring. Ryuusei Nakao playing a bland version of Freeza. In my opinion anyway.

Aside from the very basic premise of a character being brought back with cybernetics, there were no similarities between the "Mecha Freeza arc" and movie 6. Literally everything else was different; "supposedly dead villain is now a cyborg" is the full extent of what they have in common. So how is it just copying Freeza? This is like claiming that Cyborg Freeza was shit because he was just a rip-off of Cyborg Tao. Heck, those two plots share a lot more similarities than these two. Cooler- in both incarnations- is about as original as the movie villains get, bar Garlic Jr maybe.

Garlic Jr. looks like a mutant version of Pilaf, steals Gohan like Raditz, shares their voice actor, is the son of a would-be guardian demon ALA Piccolo Jr, and is ultimately only truly original in his final technique and the fact that he has a transformation. I will actually totally give those last two to him.

And you missed what I said:

Another Freeza clan member was found in space and mechanized to survive, literally within a year of it happening in the manga... and three months in the anime.

I think both those parts are pretty important.

[Kid Buu]

Actually, Vegeta is said to be the strongest in the universe in the Saiyan arc. Pretty sure the whole Freeza storyline was a retcon as we know Toriyama was writing the series as he went long and wasn't really into planning ahead.

[KaiserNeko]

Actually, Vegeta is said to be the strongest in the universe in the Saiyan arc. Pretty sure the whole Freeza storyline was a retcon as we know Toriyama was writing the series as he went long and wasn't really into planning ahead.

Yeah... I wouldn't doubt that. Regardless, Vegeta boasting is Vegeta boasting; you always take it with a grain of salt. (As you do with Toriyama's writing. @.@)

[Lord Exor]

2. Yes, he does play with them. It's a kind of mercenary game to him. Freeza would likely have never even have entertained the thought and finished his business with swift, brutal violence. The way he dealt with the Namekians was formal, but without mercy and with a strict goal in mind; he's playing the aristocrat, when really he's just a psycopathic monster. Vegeta just enjoys the idea of playing with his pray, subsequently working them down to dust, and the idea of proving them that Goku is no challenge. The difference being: Vegeta is entertained by the prospect of toying with them and then finishing them off, while Freeza is more business oriented, though he does revel in bloodshed.

Uh, where are you deriving this notion? Did Frieza not toy with Vegeta, Krillin, Gohan, Piccolo, and even Goku? It would have been a facile task to swiftly execute each one of them; instead, he chose to torture and taunt them first. Sipping wine isn't a marked disparity, neither is being overall indolent. Vegeta likewise doesn't care much for his race despite any rhetoric to the contrary--if he did, he wouldn't have intentionally dwindled their numbers by murdering Nappa.

In fact, the only two glaring divergences between the two--if we discount the Linda Young version of Frieza--are Frieza's lexicon, and Vegeta's passion for battle. Everything else is superficial at best. At least with the Linda Young version, you could make the argument that Frieza is a sadist with a deranged sense of dark humor that far exceeds that of Vegeta and perhaps any other character in the Dragon Ball mythos.

[Kid Buu]

I think both Random and Kaiser were referring to manga!Freeza and not Funi's 1999 dub Freeza here.

[Lord Exor]

Yes, I make the distinction between the two in my post. Other than cursory differences, such as Frieza's opulent, listless lifestyle--and how he speaks--the "canon" version of Frieza is remarkably similar to Saiyan-arc Vegeta. They're both prideful egoists with no qualms over killing, and it doesn't matter where their conceit is generated from.

[KaiserNeko]

Uh, where are you deriving this notion? Did Freeza not toy with Vegeta, Krillin, Gohan, Piccolo, and even Goku? It would have been a facile task to swiftly execute each one of them; instead, he chose to torture and taunt them first. Sipping wine isn't a marked disparity, neither is being overall indolent. Vegeta likewise doesn't care much for his race despite any rhetoric to the contrary--if he did, he wouldn't have intentionally dwindled their numbers by murdering Nappa.

In fact, the only two glaring divergences between the two--if we discount the Linda Young version of Frieza--are Freeza's lexicon, and Vegeta's passion for battle. Everything else is superficial at best.

I feel like the biggest difference there was Freeza's anger and sadism needing to be satiated. I don't feel like Vegeta is the sort of character that would torture. Beat? Yes. Kill? Most certainly. But torture just doesn't seem like his game. Meanwhile, Freeza seems to get off on it; he tortures Vegeta to nearly his last breath before putting him down. Vegeta may toy with his opponents, but he's pretty quick to pull that trigger when he's finally bored and finished leading them on. Freeza made every single one of them suffer out of malice, spite, and his own sadistic nature, after being denied what he wanted.

Also, Freeza's indolence in comparison to Vegeta's hands on active combat and training is a huge disparity between the two, as are their tastes, and the way they interact with others. Those are character traits.

As far as Vegeta's race goes: The strong live, the weak are disposed of. That's Saiyan life, baby.

[Lord Exor]

As far as Vegeta's race goes: The strong live, the weak are disposed of. That's Saiyan life, baby.

When your race numbers in the single digits, that rationale is rather hollow. To say you care about your race at that point boils down to shallow oratory, and a psychological deficiency wherein he can't seem to fathom that being a prince of nothing means very little.

Also, Freeza's indolence in comparison to Vegeta's hands on active combat and training is a huge disparity between the two, as are their tastes, and the way they interact with others. Those are character traits.

Frieza likes to eat crabs, so Vegeta has a propensity for insects instead? Trifles meant to add color to the characters, really. As for interactions with other characters, both Vegeta and Frieza are very similar, with Frieza being a greater sadist, but not saying anything to conspicuously indicate that he is. FUNimation played up the sadism with their interpretation of the character, which accentuated the differences. However, that snarky condescension isn't present in Toriyama's original version, so that's another trait we can't count here; rather, the acerbic commentary is replaced with boasting about how powerful he is. Vegeta did the same thing.

So he kicks his opponents while they're down for five extra minutes Vegeta would have spent doing something else, that's not enough to really differentiate the two in a meaningful way. Neither is using more descriptive speech patterns.

They're both megalomaniacs; they both seek immortality; they're both callous; they're both prideful; they both can't admit defeat; they're both delusional in many ways; and they both oppose our heroes primarily with fisticuffs, rather than through artifice and plotting. And again, no one is saying they're clones of one another, merely cut from the same cloth. Vegeta grows, while Frieza remains a static character--that's their largest discrepancy.

[RandomGuy96]

1. True, but his "nobility" is more blood and birthright than Freeza, who comes off as an evil, super-powered politician in comparison to Vegeta's proud warrior aesthetic. Yes, he looks down on Goku for being a low-class warrior, but Freeza sees no such caste system; he only sees himself as the one true ruler, and all those below him are either to be manipulated and used to his bidding or destroyed.

It's the exact same thing with Vegeta. No one is his equal and everyone is either a pawn or a plaything to him. Both of their ranking systems (and Freeza does have one) are basically "strong guys are direct servants to me, weaker strong guys are a tier below them, everyone else can be killed if I'm bored, and I'm God".

Vegeta, on the other hand, delights more in the thrill of battle and proving he is the strongest. He just has a hard time finding a challenge.

So does Freeza. This is explicitly pointed out by Goku at the very end of the arc. He asserts that Freeza could have blown up the planet in one shot if he really wanted to, but instead he wanted to slug it out with a relative equal just as much as Goku himself did. Freeza simply smiles at him in response.

2. Yes, he does play with them. It's a kind of mercenary game to him. Freeza would likely have never even have entertained the thought and finished his business with swift, brutal violence.

He literally never does that when he gets the opportunity to fight someone. Remember Nail? Or Piccolo? Or Gohan? Or Goku?

The way he dealt with the Namekians was formal, but without mercy and with a strict goal in mind; he's playing the aristocrat, when really he's just a psycopathic monster. Vegeta just enjoys the idea of playing with his pray, subsequently working them down to dust, and the idea of proving them that Goku is no challenge. The difference being: Vegeta is entertained by the prospect of toying with them and then finishing them off, while Freeza is more business oriented, though he does revel in bloodshed.

They both revel in playing with their food before delivering the killing blow. You're not really describing any difference between them, you're just stating the same characteristics in different words. Freeza isn't really business oriented; not unless you'd describe a mugger as "business oriented". His methods never get more sophisticated than that, he just straight up says "give me what I want or I'll kill you and smash the place".

3. He means that hard work has no merit for the weak. Only the truly strong can rise to the top; weaklings will always be weaklings.

He thinks he doesn't need to "rise to the top", since he's already there, and has always been there. At no point during the Saiyan arc does he give the concept of "hard work" any value.

4&5. I never said he doesn't enjoy bloodshed. He's a Saiyan warrior, for crying out loud. More importantly, he involves himself directly in said bloodshed; he's the one fighting, he's the one killing, he's the one doing the legwork. While he allows Nappa to waste most of the Earthlings, he does so as a game; it's not so much that he's lazy or above them, he just wants to watch as their hope dwindles down to nothing.

He could easily accomplish the same thing by stepping in himself; which he would if he really wanted to sate his bloodlust. But he doesn't, because he considers killing vermin like that to be beneath him. He only steps in to blow up a henchman for losing, and order Nappa around.

I feel like the biggest difference there was Freeza's anger and sadism needing to be satiated. I don't feel like Vegeta is the sort of character that would torture. Beat? Yes. Kill? Most certainly. But torture just doesn't seem like his game. Meanwhile, Freeza seems to get off on it; he tortures Vegeta to nearly his last breath before putting him down. Vegeta may toy with his opponents, but he's pretty quick to pull that trigger when he's finally bored and finished leading them on.

Do you think he needed to stomp on Goku's legs or squeeze him like a squeaky toy? He should've been able to just pop his head like a grape, yet he didn't.

1. Freeza's pride comes from being the ruler of the galaxy as he knows it, a god king among the stars, unchallenged and unabated. Vegeta's pride comes from his race, their inherent aptitude for battle, and his nobility.

So... they come from the same source of ego. You didn't actually describe any difference between them; you're describing the same character traits in different words. They're both prideful because they're the top dog of the universe, with their power being completely unchallenged. That's all there is to it. Freeza isn't even the "ruler of the galaxy", except in the sense that he can do whatever he wants (just like Vegeta could). He's a pirate who kills people and steals their stuff.

Freeza doesn't care about his race, he cares about himself. Vegeta finds pride in where he ranks as a warrior, from a warrior race.

Vegeta couldn't care less about his "warrior race", in fact he attempts to eliminate all the other saiyans for being "soft" (refuses to bring Raditz back, kills Nappa, tries to kill Goku and Gohan). Nappa and Raditz are both shocked by how evil he is; his behavior is explicitly unusual and self-centered, even for a saiyan.

2. He's introduced as a man eating a literal (bug) person whilst sitting at a campfire after decimating that (bug) person's race.

And Freeza gets off and ripping off arms. So?

Yeah, he throws out witty quips, but they're not close to the same kind of flowered up, articulate speech Freeza uses with other characters. Unless you're watching the original dub, in which case... well, that's not Freeza. Hell, Kai Freeza and Vegeta can give you a pretty sharp contrast in just a few lines between the two of them.

So, the difference between them is that one uses more flowery language? That's superficial at best.

And yes, he's a prince. Who murders swaths of people with his own two hands on a frequent basis, eats their bodies at campfires, and is still a soldier regardless.

Freeza murders swaths of people as well and gets joy from tearing people limb from limb (literally).

It's not like Freeza likely gave him extravagant accommodations; what part of Vegeta's character, in the entire series, leads you to believe he doesn't train in his downtime?

Who gives a shit about what a non-existent entity felt like giving him? In the context of the Saiyan arc, he's the strongest warrior of the strongest warrior race, basically a god and completely unrivaled. He can take anything he wants.

Anyway, him explicitly dismissing the idea of hard work- plus refusing to get involved in combat himself until his henchmen are dead- would both suggest that.

Because that's far and away what Freeza does.

Freeza was actually implied to have trained numerous times in the Namek arc. He knows a lot of techniques he couldn't have just invented on the spot, and he references fighting with his dad (and his dad is still alive, so...).

In regards to that first part, that's not what I meant be urgency. Urgency is the driving force that keeps a character moving and acting. I've already explained how Vegeta's little game is well within character. As for Freeza's response, it again comes down to the way they act normally: Vegeta is boastful and proud, but Freeza is more refined and condescending.

Vegeta is incredibly calm and condescending. Hence why he actually cheers the heroes on in their fight with Nappa, and decides that they're so both beneath him that he can take a 3 hour break and not miss anything.

His calm, calculated demeanor is far more terrifying to see break down, because the acid he spits is much more stark in contrast. Vegeta's rage seems more natural, though ferocious. Freeza's is that of a self-entitled, spoiled psychopath who's finally been pushed to the edge.

Again, you are describing Vegeta while saying that you're describing Freeza. Vegeta remains calm until Goku's power surpasses his with a KK x3, and clearly has the "self-entitled, spoiled psychopath" character down pat.

Vegeta was never the strongest in the universe, and he knew it.

Kid Buu already said this, but in the context of the Saiyan arc, yeah he was.

Vegeta didn't attempt to blow up the planet because he was outmatched; he still had plenty of ways to fight Goku at that point. He did it out of anger and frustration over his humiliation, forcing Goku to either take it head on, or let the planet be destroyed. Freeza did it because it was the only sure way to win at that point.

Freeza had other options as well; he hadn't even tried to go 100%, even though he was sure it'd work. Both lost their shit temporarily at being surpassed, causing them to attempt to blow up the planet.

Freeza was never overpowered at any point by the Kaio-Ken; he held off that Kamehameha with a single hand. Nor does he have a weakness in his tail, though they do get cut/blown off.

Goku was able to hurt Freeza with a blow to his face and inflict serious-looking burns on Freeza despite only sustaining that burst for about five seconds. Again, that's roughly what happened when Goku blasted Vegeta with the KK x4 Kamehameha; he hurt him, but it wasn't enough to actually kill his adversary, and it cost him all his remaining energy. The scenes are very similar, just like Goku using a Genki-Dama, and Goku's opponent using various levels of "screwing around" strength to match him as he progressively increases his Kaio-Ken levels.

Goku launching himself at Freeza and kicking him in the face with all his might does little to the alien warlord. Meanwhile biting his tail causes him to scream in pain and double over for a prolonged period of time. It's also destroyed by the Genki-Dama while the rest of his body is intact.

Goku spares Vegeta to get another fight, he spares Freeza to let him wallow in his own defeat and out of pity.

Nope. He explicitly tells Freeza that he should train and come back to fight him again.

... yeah, they were both abusive to their henchmen. But that's just evil bein' evil.

No, it's one of the many traits they share. Daimao wasn't abusive to his henchmen, nor was Cooler.

But then he's just... kind of boring. Ryuusei Nakao playing a bland version of Freeza. In my opinion anyway.

If you think he's boring, then that's one thing. But he's not a copy of Freeza.

Garlic Jr. looks like a mutant version of Pilaf, steals Gohan like Raditz, shares their voice actor, is the son of a would-be guardian demon ALA Piccolo Jr, and is ultimately only truly original in his final technique and the fact that he has a transformation. I will actually totally give those last two to him.

And you missed what I said:

He also has a different goal than Piccolo, Raditz, or Pilaf.

I didn't miss that part, I just didn't think it was relevant. No one's denying that they got the premise from that mini-arc, but the actual content of the movie is absolutely nothing like the content of the mini-arc. Hence me disagreeing with calling it a rip-off or rehash or whatever.

Also, Freeza's indolence in comparison to Vegeta's hands on active combat and training is a huge disparity between the two, as are their tastes, and the way they interact with others. Those are character traits.

[/quote]
1. Did Freeza actually need to step in to "fight" Nail? Did he need to personally kill Cargo? Did he need to personally blow up the saiyan planet? I think not. He had goons who could've done all this stuff. Freeza's no more indolent than Vegeta is.
2. They interact with others in basically the same way: sarcastic quips, insults, and threats. Also boasts. That's pretty much the sum of their interactions with any given character.

[KaiserNeko]

It's the exact same thing with Vegeta. No one is his equal and everyone is either a pawn or a plaything to him. Both of their ranking systems (and Freeza does have one) are basically "strong guys are direct servants to me, weaker strong guys are a tier below them, everyone else can be killed if I'm bored, and I'm God".

Well, their ranking systems there are probably relatively similar, but I'd expect that out of almost any of the big villains in the series. Even Demon King Piccolo, with maybe the exception of his personal creations.

So does Freeza. This is explicitly pointed out by Goku at the very end of the arc. He asserts that Freeza could have blown up the planet in one shot if he really wanted to, but instead he wanted to slug it out with a relative equal just as much as Goku himself did. Freeza simply smiles at him in response.

Eh, fair enough point, even if Freeza's interest in a "challenge" seemingly only comes very late into the game and seems highly out of character at that point.

He literally never does that when he gets the opportunity to fight someone. Remember Nail? Or Piccolo? Or Gohan? Or Goku?

I already covered that in a another post: With Piccolo, Gohan, and Goku, he's a sadist who enjoys watching those who caused him frustration suffer. Also, with Nail, he needed information.

Freeza isn't really business oriented; not unless you'd describe a mugger as "business oriented". His methods never get more sophisticated than that, he just straight up says "give me what I want or I'll kill you and smash the place".

But that's just it: He's like a mob boss in that manner. Sitting up at the top, making demands, and having his henchmen do the work for him. All from the comfort of his bubble car. Which, I remind you, is just another example of his indolence.

He thinks he doesn't need to "rise to the top", since he's already there, and has always been there. At no point during the Saiyan arc does he give the concept of "hard work" any value.

It's definitely implied he's worked hard to get there; or, at the very least, he's worked his way there through actual combat and effort.

He could easily accomplish the same thing by stepping in himself; which he would if he really wanted to sate his bloodlust. But he doesn't, because he considers killing vermin like that to be beneath him. He only steps in to blow up a henchman for losing, and order Nappa around.

Is it crazy to think he's just enjoying himself and is taking it easy here? I'm sorry, it's just, I never thought of him as being lazy, it always just seemed like he was enjoying himself as the numbers fell and Nappa constantly uprooted every attempt at victory.

Do you think he needed to stomp on Goku's legs or squeeze him like a squeaky toy? He should've been able to just pop his head like a grape, yet he didn't.

I actually do think he needed to break Goku's legs. At that point, Goku had proven over and over again how dangerous he was and crippling him was by far the safest bet. As far as squeezing him goes... hard to argue that moment. Of course, after all that punishment he took... I can imagine him wanting to pay it back.

So... they come from the same source of ego. You didn't actually describe any difference between them; you're describing the same character traits in different words. They're both prideful because they're the top dog of the universe, with their power being completely unchallenged. That's all there is to it. Freeza isn't even the "ruler of the galaxy", except in the sense that he can do whatever he wants (just like Vegeta could). He's a pirate who kills people and steals their stuff.

I said, "As he knows it". Freeza wholeheartedly considers himself top dog of the universe, as far as he's concerned. Hell, the only time he says otherwise is in Resurrection 'F'.

Vegeta couldn't care less about his "warrior race", in fact he attempts to eliminate all the other saiyans for being "soft" (refuses to bring Raditz back, kills Nappa, tries to kill Goku and Gohan). Nappa and Raditz are both shocked by how evil he is; his behavior is explicitly unusual and self-centered, even for a saiyan.

Except Vegeta does care about his race. Otherwise he wouldn't care so much that Goku damages him. He wouldn't be so strict on Nappa, Raditz, etc. His view of the Saiyan race is only the strongest may survive, the rest should perish... even if that means he's the only one left in the end. It's pretty screwed up, but that doesn't mean he does value his Saiyan heritage.

Why would Vegeta care about Goku's place in the Saiyan caste system if he didn't care about his pride as Prince of the Saiyans, and by extension, his race?

Freeza murders swaths of people as well and gets joy from tearing people limb from limb (literally).

Most of Freeza's murdering comes from blowing up planets from the safety of his bubblecar. Furthermore, we've covered Freeza's sadistic streak.

Who gives a shit about what a non-existent entity felt like giving him? In the context of the Saiyan arc, he's the strongest warrior of the strongest warrior race, basically a god and completely unrivaled. He can take anything he wants.

Anyway, him explicitly dismissing the idea of hard work- plus refusing to get involved in combat himself until his henchmen are dead- would both suggest that.

He doesn't refuse to get involved in combat himself, he just doesn't bother. Mostly because the plot calls for it, if you want my honest opinion. It never felt like he was refraining from battle purely out of laziness, but instead enjoying the show and letting Nappa have his fun. He's openly curious about the prospect of Goku and certainly seems quite excited to face off against him once Nappa is disposed of. Meanwhile, Freeza calls the bloody Ginyu Force in and makes them deal with the problem, when everything would have been finished in moments had he just taken a scouter from them and done it himself.

Also, I do think it matters what kind of life Vegeta lives. He never, ever comes off as someone who lives in luxury; with all his talk of his warrior race, I just don't believe it.

Freeza was actually implied to have trained numerous times in the Namek arc. He knows a lot of techniques he couldn't have just invented on the spot, and he references fighting with his dad (and his dad is still alive, so...).

He references that the only person to ever put a speck of dust on him was his father. It's never explicitly said that he has trained.

Vegeta is incredibly calm and condescending. Hence why he actually cheers the heroes on in their fight with Nappa, and decides that they're so both beneath him that he can take a 3 hour break and not miss anything.

Freeza's manner of speech is a very high-minded, aristocratic approach; he speaks very formally, in a manner that seeks to disarm who he's talking to and control the flow of the conversation and the interaction. While Vegeta is witty, he's more roguish; he doesn't speak nearly as formally, he's quick to cut to chase, and while he does certainly condescend, the manner of which he does is very different.

Again, you are describing Vegeta while saying that you're describing Freeza. Vegeta remains calm until Goku's power surpasses his with a KK x3, and clearly has the "self-entitled, spoiled psychopath" character down pat.

I'm sorry, but the kind of responses from Freeza and Vegeta are distinctly different to me. Vegeta screams and loses his shit, but that comes off much more as reasonable anger and frustration. Freeza screeches, his entire manner of speech changes, and he becomes much more vicious and sadistic because of it, all contrasted against his unshakable flowery demeanor.

Freeza had other options as well; he hadn't even tried to go 100%, even though he was sure it'd work. Both lost their shit temporarily at being surpassed, causing them to attempt to blow up the planet.

Except Freeza had no guarantee he could get away with going 100%; at that moment, he decided the safest bet was to just blow the planet up.

Goku was able to hurt Freeza with a blow to his face and inflict serious-looking burns on Freeza despite only sustaining that burst for about five seconds. Again, that's roughly what happened when Goku blasted Vegeta with the KK x4 Kamehameha; he hurt him, but it wasn't enough to actually kill his adversary, and it cost him all his remaining energy. The scenes are very similar, just like Goku using a Genki-Dama, and Goku's opponent using various levels of "screwing around" strength to match him as he progressively increases his Kaio-Ken levels.

Goku launching himself at Freeza and kicking him in the face with all his might does little to the alien warlord. Meanwhile biting his tail causes him to scream in pain and double over for a prolonged period of time. It's also destroyed by the Genki-Dama while the rest of his body is intact.

Comedy. I'm sorry, but that's all that was. Comedy. It's played both for laughs and to hearken back to days of old, given Freeza's response and expression. Sure, it does get him out of a bind, but it's not the first time DragonBall has done that. In terms of him losing his tail, I don't know what to tell you, but I just don't see his tail being a weakness. There's nothing to prove that, by any means. If it were, you'd think he'd be more careful about using it as a weapon; the Saiyans kept theirs close to their waist.

Nope. He explicitly tells Freeza that he should train and come back to fight him again.

But that's not why he spares him. He did not spare Freeza for a better fight; otherwise, he wouldn't have hesitated. He did it because Freeza was pleading. After which, Goku basically tells him, "If you really want to get revenge on me, get stronger, and find me again. I'll be ready." He explicitly spares Vegeta for the sake of a better fight.

No, it's one of the many traits they share. Daimao wasn't abusive to his henchmen, nor was Cooler.

It was never an option for those character. Their henchmen actually got things done. I highly doubt Cooler wouldn't have put a hole in Sauza if he deemed him unnecessary. He's the brother of Freeza and son of King Cold; they seemed pretty okay with killing off the weak.

If you think he's boring, then that's one thing. But he's not a copy of Freeza.

True, but it's literally just cashing in on Freeza by giving him a boring brother. It may not be a copy of Freeza, no, but it's still a cheap ploy.

He also has a different goal than Piccolo, Raditz, or Pilaf.

Well, actually, he did share the goal of killing Kami with Piccolo over what happened to his father, so there is that. But my point was that there are a ton of similarities with him there as far as the character concept goes.

I didn't miss that part, I just didn't think it was relevant. No one's denying that they got the premise from that mini-arc, but the actual content of the movie is absolutely nothing like the content of the mini-arc. Hence me disagreeing with calling it a rip-off or rehash or whatever.

It is a rip-off, because they literally mechanized another of Freeza's race after being defeated by Goku. retrieving his body floating in space... under a year after it happened in the manga. I'm sorry, that's a rehashed concept. Sure, they change everything else, but it's still the same basic concept fresh on everyone's minds.

Did Freeza actually need to step in to "fight" Nail?

Yes. After everyone continuously dropping the ball, he needed to finally get the answer himself. Even he got tired of it all. He needed answers and, at that point, could not risk anyone else flubbing it up.

Did he need to personally kill Cargo?

A tiny little blast to help motivate the townsfolk into giving him what he wants? My, such hard work.

Did he need to personally blow up the Saiyan planet?

Oh, we know why he did that. That was for funsies.

This... entire conversation is becoming incredibly cumbersome and difficult to respond to in these bit-by-bit segments. Also, kinda feel like we're talking in circles at this point. We've also gone wildly off topic. You can respond if you want to, but it's gotten to the point where I'm not sure much more will be accomplished.

[Noah]

So they have Movie 10 above Movie 8 on their list? Kinda odd for me.

[dbzfan7]

So they have Movie 10 above Movie 8 on their list? Kinda odd for me.

No they have both 11 & 8 above 10, but aren't fans of any of those 3 movies.

[Noah]

So they have Movie 10 above Movie 8 on their list? Kinda odd for me.

No they have both 11 & 8 above 10, but aren't fans of any of those 3 movies.

What I meant to say is that I found strange that they like more Movie 10 than Movie 8. The list order is from worst to the best, right?

[FortuneSSJ]

-About the copyright strikes-

"It's obviously a mistake since even Akira Toriyama himself said he liked the series and Taka even did a voice in Xenoverse, yet the copyright claims are from Toei. I'm sure its just youtube's new retarded ass policy and bots."

Toriyama patiently waits for the next DBZA videos, it seems. I wonder where people will get so much inspiration for this comments.

Where's that quote from?

A fan's comment in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SA6J03p ... xSwVBaeRRg

Spoiler:

[dbzfan7]

So they have Movie 10 above Movie 8 on their list? Kinda odd for me.

No they have both 11 & 8 above 10, but aren't fans of any of those 3 movies.

What I meant to say is that I found strange that they like more Movie 10 than Movie 8. The list order is from worst to the best, right?

They have Movie 8 above 10.

[Noah]

They have Movie 8 above 10.

Oh! You're right I forgot that Movie 10 was placed in #22, my bad lol

[FoolsGil]

#13 is up - Cooler's Revenge
You know Kaiser, Piccolo might as well be King of the Nameks, he's absorbed enough of them into his being

And Was Machinibridged episode 9 mentioned? Because its been up for two days. Endings pretty good.