The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[dbzfan7]

Yea the general 1.2-2x range has a placement for everyone to be happy imo.

2x is too much for me. 1.2-1.6x is the best i'd give.

[Mjb1985]

Well that's why I said the general gap is good enough for most everyone. Some people like it higher on the scale and some like it lower. It's a good range though. Some people like to see Broly stronger some like him weaker. But majority seem to think he falls in line with that gap in my experiences.

[Kamiccolo9]

Freeza Fight Piccolo vs Picconail (Hypothetical fusion of Piccolo (post Kaio's training) and Nail)
Basically, which would be more effective in this instance: Namekian Fusion or the Fusion Dance?

[RandomGuy96]

Depends on how you think Piccolo got from one week of training.

[Kamiccolo9]

Depends on how you think Piccolo got from one week of training.

I know. This is also a slightly sneaky way to see how everyone else has Piccolo after his training for when I make my power levels list

[RandomGuy96]

I frankly have no idea. On one hand, we have common sense. On the other, we have Piccolo saying he can help against Freeza, getting to Namek, sensing Freeza's power, and running off to fight him anyway with noting how off the mark he was. We also have Nail calling Piccolo incredible and saying that, if he merged with Kami, he would be able to defeat first form Freeza.

Just to be clear, what Freeza did Piccolo sense there? First form Freeza before powering up to fight Vegeta?

I'm starting to think that the Kaio training was just haxxed as hell somehow, because I also don't really want to throw out Gero's statements in the android arc that the humans would at least give him a noticeable amount of energy.

[dbzfan7]

Depends on how you think Piccolo got from one week of training.

I know. This is also a slightly sneaky way to see how everyone else has Piccolo after his training for when I make my power levels list

Chapter: 295 (DBZ 101), P1.4, P2.1-5, P3.1
Nail: “I-I’m astonished…I don’t know what kind of training you’ve done, but you’ve acquired unbelievable power…Still, it’s unfortunate…If you had only returned to the original, single Namekian you were, you might have been able to defeat even Freeza…”
Piccolo: “Are you saying that if I merged with God once again, my power would even surpass Freeza!?”
Nail: “Th-that’s right…I was overwhelmingly defeated by Freeza, but I should have a good comprehension of his abilities…[ ] So merge with me…! I’m also the only fighting-type Namekian on this planet…[ ] That’s right…Your power will become many times greater…”
Piccolo: “…You’re not lying, are you?”
Nail: “If you think so, you can just go get killed by Freeza…”

Nail said Piccolo had unbelievable power so he should be at least significantly stronger than Nail

as for fusion vs NF, it depends where you put the fusion multiplier. I currently have it at the minimum of (A+B)X10. which would make the namekian fusion of Piccolo and Nail stronger than Nailcollo.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Nail said Piccolo had unbelievable power so he should be at least significantly stronger than Nail

Or, Piccolo was significantly stronger than the normal Namekian Warriors.

[dbzfan7]

Nail said Piccolo had unbelievable power so he should be at least significantly stronger than Nail

Or, Piccolo was significantly stronger than the normal Namekian Warriors.

Could be. IMO it seems Piccolo has a greater power level than Nail. A power level lower than Nail doesn't seem like unbelievable power. Unbelievable to me means it's something Nail couldn't achieve.

[Saiga]

Or significantly stronger than the Namekian non-warriors. Although I guess Nail would have to at least know Piccolo is a warrior if he suggested fusion.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Nail said Piccolo had unbelievable power so he should be at least significantly stronger than Nail

Or, Piccolo was significantly stronger than the normal Namekian Warriors.

Could be. IMO it seems Piccolo has a greater power level than Nail. A power level lower than Nail doesn't seem like unbelievable power. Unbelievable to me means it's something Nail couldn't achieve.

But it makes zero sense for Piccolo to be stronger than Nail...

[RandomGuy96]

There's also the fact that Piccolo was the dominant one in the fusion. IIRC, Kami said that Piccolo would be the dominant one in the fusion, with Kami effectively dying, because he was stronger.

But yeah, I don't see Nail calling Piccolo "unbelievable" if Piccolo was multi-folds below him, like he logically would be. The point of that scene is to show that while Piccolo got way stronger, he still needs this new upgrade to go toe to toe with Freeza.

[dbzfan7]

But it makes zero sense for Piccolo to be stronger than Nail...

Several things make zero sense in the Freeza saga, this isn't going to be the first (it isn't) and it definitely won't be the last.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Several things make zero sense in the Freeza saga, this isn't going to be the first (it isn't) and it definitely won't be the last.

Like?

[RandomGuy96]

Well... Goku's x33 zenkai for one. I seriously don't get why people complain about Piccolo's haxxed gains when we have crap like this.

[dbzfan7]

Several things make zero sense in the Freeza saga, this isn't going to be the first (it isn't) and it definitely won't be the last.

Like?

Every Zenkai ever. Vegeta goes from getting small ones to gigantic ones, same with Goku. Freeza not overpowering Vegeta in their first struggle easily. Freeza not crushing Goku with half power (it's cleared up in the anime where he states he's barely using a third of it.) Freeza somehow not instantly stopping a Genki-Dama and stupidly ignores it. Potential that somehow would raise Gohan and Krillins power even after the first plateau without any significant reason. PIiccolo's weights which unless they increased are pretty stupid and pointless and shouldn't even effect Piccolo after this point. And more as soon as I find an old thread.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Well... Goku's x33 zenkai for one. I seriously don't get why people complain about Piccolo's haxxed gains when we have crap like this.

The near-death power-ups are not set increases, so there is no rule that makes the big ones inconsistencies. Piccolo getting over 14 times stronger just by running for a month the Serpentine Road & training for a few days under Kaio makes zero sense, and has never happened before, or after, and that is an inconsistency.

[Saiga]

There's also the fact that Piccolo was the dominant one in the fusion. IIRC, Kami said that Piccolo would be the dominant one in the fusion, with Kami effectively dying, because he was stronger.

Which suggests that Piccolo was better than a horribly beaten Nail, which doesn't surprise me. I don't think Nail would be as effective as if he was fresh.

[RandomGuy96]

There's also the fact that Piccolo was the dominant one in the fusion. IIRC, Kami said that Piccolo would be the dominant one in the fusion, with Kami effectively dying, because he was stronger.

Which suggests that Piccolo was better than a horribly beaten Nail, which doesn't surprise me. I don't think Nail would be as effective as if he was fresh.

I don't think the state of the fighter at the time factors into it, or else Nail would probably just tell Piccolo to get Dende to heal him so the fusion would be stronger. I think it's dependent on how strong the fusee is overall, not how strong they are at that specific point in time.

Also, you're implying that if Nail was fresh, the fusion would've ROFLSTOMPED Freeza?

Also, the strength checker tells me that Piccolo sensed Freeza when he powered up in his first form. He also sensed Gohan, Krillin, and Vegeta. If he was weaker than even Krillin, I think that he'd note it and start wetting his pants instead of running off to fight Freeza. With that in mind I'd put him anywhere between 75,000 and 250,000, maybe higher, since I believe that Freeza's first form still wasn't at full power at this time (isn't this when he was grappling with Vegeta?).

The near-death power-ups are not set increases, so there is no rule that makes the big ones inconsistencies. Piccolo getting over 14 times stronger just by running for a month the Serpentine Road & training for a few days under Kaio makes zero sense, and has never happened before, or after, and that is an inconsistency.

lol@ thinking power increases are logical. This is the same guy who got x100 times stronger in three years of normal training, and was just coming off the saga where a bunch of trash Earthlings surpassed the strongest warriors in the history of their planet in one year of relatively normal training. There is no rule that makes Piccolo's ridiculous power increase here an inconsistency; we see him get haxxed power increases all the time. Goku's x33 zenkai would still be much more bullshit than this.

[Saiga]

Nail didn't know Dende cool heal, and I wasn't thinking of battle power when I said that. I was thinking just physical state, like how God talked about his eldery state rather than his battle power being lower than Piccolo's. I think if both fusions were reversed the result would be just as powerful, but in a physical state that would hold them back.

My interpretation of the strength checker quotes is that Piccolo was baffled by even Freeza's suppressed first form power, which should have been below 530,000. Kuririn isn't fighting at this stage, and you know, standing ki and all that ambiguous crap. So I don't think we can use Kuririn for any comparison here.