Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[Lord Beerus]

Base Goku Black no sold a barrage of attacks from Vegeta then sent him flying, and visibly hurt, with one kick to the stomach. Goku Black in his base form is far beyond SSJB, and as a SSJ Rose, Vegeta and Goku can't do shit against him. They are really up against it now.

Also, according to Herms:

Black says he's gone beyond what any mortal can, and is still improving.

Yep. Goku Black is looking untouchable right now.

I don't think Black's kick did anything to Vegeta, and I think SSB Vegeta did well until Black surprised him with the stab to the chest. Also in the next ep preview we see SSB Goku stall Black for quite a while so I don't think the gap between SSB and SSR is that great. Oh yeah, and Vegeta caught SSR Black's fist easily.

Black seems to be immune to pain and somewhat impervious to damage.

Vegeta was clearly in pain from that kick to the stomach. I mean, Goku Black was just toying with Vegeta for the whole fight. Eveyrthing Vegeta threw at him, in response, Goku Black just smiled and no sold it all. The reason that Black seems to be immune to pain and somewhat impervious to damage is because, well, he's just that damn strong. There really is no way to slice at this stage. Base Goku Black could stomp the shit out of SSBJ Goku and Vegeta if wanted to. As a SSJ Rose, he's gonna murder the both of them easily if he doesn't fuck around.

[Cipher]

The world of specific multipliers is a place I will not tread, as I don't think the series has ever been very concerned with them, but it seems enough to say that Black is now at least stronger than any non-Super Saiyan God character in his base form, and stronger than any of them in Super Saiyan Rosé. And that this is an increase from his power when he fought Goku in the present.

[TheMikado]

Black took all those hits from Vegeta like a champ in regular state. However, when he went to Rose form he didn't insta beat Vegeta. That's kinda crazy. The boost might be less than 2x as he seemed to only win by catching Vegeta off guard.

Yeah, I agree. Since RoF I've been saying that SSB was a x1.333... boost. Looks like that might be right.

No in the anime the multiplier is that small, I expect it to play out much differently in the manga

[Chiki]

Base Goku Black no sold a barrage of attacks from Vegeta then sent him flying, and visibly hurt, with one kick to the stomach. Goku Black in his base form is far beyond SSJB, and as a SSJ Rose, Vegeta and Goku can't do shit against him. They are really up against it now.

Also, according to Herms:

Yep. Goku Black is looking untouchable right now.

I don't think Black's kick did anything to Vegeta, and I think SSB Vegeta did well until Black surprised him with the stab to the chest. Also in the next ep preview we see SSB Goku stall Black for quite a while so I don't think the gap between SSB and SSR is that great. Oh yeah, and Vegeta caught SSR Black's fist easily.

Black seems to be immune to pain and somewhat impervious to damage.

Vegeta was clearly in pain from that kick to the stomach. I mean, Goku Black was just toying with Vegeta for the whole fight. Eveyrthing Vegeta threw at him, in response, Goku Black just smiled and no sold it all. The reason that Black seems to be immune to pain and somewhat impervious to damage is because, well, he's just that damn strong. There really is no way to slice at this stage. Base Goku Black could stomp the shit out of SSBJ Goku and Vegeta if wanted to. As a SSJ Rose, he's gonna murder the both of them easily if he doesn't fuck around.

Just rewatched the fight. Vegeta does surprisingly well against SSR Black, catching him off guard, hurting him and catching his punch. I don't think the power gap is great.

Also SSB Vegeta was as hurt by that kick as Black was hurt by Trunks's punch to the gut. I doubt it was anything serious.

Yeah, I agree. Since RoF I've been saying that SSB was a x1.333... boost. Looks like that might be right.

No in the anime the multiplier is that small, I expect it to play out much differently in the manga

But in the anime, it's said that the SS multiplier is dozens. So how does that all work out without the two base theory?

[TheMikado]

^ I not even trying to get on how it works or what it really is supposed to be. I just accept that the anime is whatever they present it to be and wait for clarification in the manga.

[Chiki]

^ I not even trying to get on how it works or what it really is supposed to be. I just accept that the anime is whatever they present it to be and wait for clarification in the manga.

Lol so is that why you keep saying everyone on this thread is right?

[Lord Beerus]

Just rewatched the fight. Vegeta does surprisingly well against SSR Black, catching him off guard, hurting him and catching his punch. I don't think the power gap is great.

Also SSB Vegeta was as hurt by that kick as Black was hurt by Trunks's punch to the gut. I doubt it was anything serious.

But SSJR Goku Black was smirking after Vegeta's assault. Vegeta didn't hurt him at all. Not once. Vegeta "hurt" Goku Black the same way Cell "hurt" SSJ2 Kid Gohan after he punched him in the face.

[TheMikado]

^ I not even trying to get on how it works or what it really is supposed to be. I just accept that the anime is whatever they present it to be and wait for clarification in the manga.

Lol so is that why you keep saying everyone on this thread is right?

Yes because it's literally true at this point. The manga could show the Black fight go completely differently. Who knows be yes everyone is correct in believing the information of what ever media presents it to them. There's no other way around this.

[Chiki]

Just rewatched the fight. Vegeta does surprisingly well against SSR Black, catching him off guard, hurting him and catching his punch. I don't think the power gap is great.

Also SSB Vegeta was as hurt by that kick as Black was hurt by Trunks's punch to the gut. I doubt it was anything serious.

But SSJR Goku Black was smirking after Vegeta's assault. Vegeta didn't hurt him at all. Not once. Vegeta "hurt" Goku Black the same way Cell "hurt" SSJ2 Kid Gohan after he punched him in the face.

Black also smirked as he was shaking like a leaf from Goku hitting him really hard in the chest. The guy is a masochist.

Yes because it's literally true at this point. The manga could show the Black fight go completely differently. Who knows be yes everyone is correct in believing the information of what ever media presents it to them. There's no other way around this.

Ok, but your view just means that the two base theory is unintentionally true.

[Lord Beerus]

Just rewatched the fight. Vegeta does surprisingly well against SSR Black, catching him off guard, hurting him and catching his punch. I don't think the power gap is great.

Also SSB Vegeta was as hurt by that kick as Black was hurt by Trunks's punch to the gut. I doubt it was anything serious.

But SSJR Goku Black was smirking after Vegeta's assault. Vegeta didn't hurt him at all. Not once. Vegeta "hurt" Goku Black the same way Cell "hurt" SSJ2 Kid Gohan after he punched him in the face.

Black also smirked as he was shaking like a leaf from Goku hitting him really hard in the chest. The guy is a masochist.

And at the end of the day, he showed no visible damage or distress from any of Vegeta's attacks in his base form or as a SSJR. So... yeah. Goku Black is just that strong. I mean, if he wasn't, wouldn't he be bloodied and bruised from the barrage of punches and kicks Vegeta laid on him?

[Chiki]

But SSJR Goku Black was smirking after Vegeta's assault. Vegeta didn't hurt him at all. Not once. Vegeta "hurt" Goku Black the same way Cell "hurt" SSJ2 Kid Gohan after he punched him in the face.

Black also smirked as he was shaking like a leaf from Goku hitting him really hard in the chest. The guy is a masochist.

And at the end of the day, he showed no visible damage or distress from any of Vegeta's attacks in his base form or as a SSJR. So... yeah. Goku Black is just that strong. I mean, if he wasn't, wouldn't he be bloodied and bruised from the barrage of punches and kicks Vegeta laid on him?

Like I said, Black seems to have some kind of strange defense ability that isn't normal for his power level. It's hinted, though admittedly not confirmed.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Seeing how well SSB Vegeta & Goku did against SSR Black, and how surprised SSR Black was, it appears that Vegeta was actually holding back against base Black. He was probably testing him, since according to Trunks, Black was a little stronger than SS3 Goku. I wouldn't rule out the possibility that he was heavily holding back.

Now, since I don't speak Japanese, what did we learn about Super Saiyan Rose?

[Chiki]

Seeing how well SSB Vegeta & Goku did against SSR Black, and how surprised SSR Black was, it appears that Vegeta was actually holding back against base Black. He was probably testing him, since according to Trunks, Black was a little stronger than SS3 Goku. I wouldn't rule out the possibility that he was heavily holding back.

Now, since I don't speak Japanese, what did we learn about Super Saiyan Rose?

That does make sense since it's weird for Black to be surprised by SSB Vegeta's power after transforming to SSR. Vegeta was probably holding back then quite a bit.

[HeroR]

Seeing how well SSB Vegeta & Goku did against SSR Black, and how surprised SSR Black was, it appears that Vegeta was actually holding back against base Black. He was probably testing him, since according to Trunks, Black was a little stronger than SS3 Goku. I wouldn't rule out the possibility that he was heavily holding back.

Now, since I don't speak Japanese, what did we learn about Super Saiyan Rose?

He would be stronger than Super Saiyan 3 Goku, since Vegeta specifically notes that Black has gotten stronger, and Black himself said he has gotten stronger. So, he's stronger than Super Saiyan 3 Goku, but still weaker than Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Vegeta in his base form. Which is about what I expected.

At the same time, Black didn't appear to be trying either in his base form, something Trunks noted as well.

[Bullza]

From what I can tell, he was slightly stronger than SSJ3 Goku in the future before but now he's powered up because pain makes him stronger and he's reached the point he can withstand a pretty serious barrage from SSJB Vegeta and hurt him.

SSJB Vegeta pummels Black, he doesn't hurt him. Black kicks Vegeta and he hurts him so he already seemed as though he were stronger than him then.

Black turns SSJR, there's a little struggle which Vegeta seems to win but then again doesn't appear to hurt Black and loses by being caught off guard. Then SSJB Goku fights him and Black seems to get the upper hand in the end.

In the preview it looks like SSJB Goku is having a go of it aswell without being too overwhelmed.

So was SSJB Vegeta holding back against Black? Or is SSJR not that big of a boost? It certainly doesn't appear to give him the boost that SSJB gives Goku and Vegeta anyway.

[HeroR]

From what I can tell, he was slightly stronger than SSJ3 Goku in the future before but now he's powered up because pain makes him stronger and he's reached the point he can withstand a pretty serious barrage from SSJB Vegeta and hurt him.

SSJB Vegeta pummels Black, he doesn't hurt him. Black kicks Vegeta and he hurts him so he already seemed as though he were stronger than him then.

Black turns SSJR, there's a little struggle which Vegeta seems to win but then again doesn't appear to hurt Black and loses by being caught off guard. Then SSJB Goku fights him and Black seems to get the upper hand in the end.

In the preview it looks like SSJB Goku is having a go of it aswell without being too overwhelmed.

So was SSJB Vegeta holding back against Black? Or is SSJR not that big of a boost? It certainly doesn't appear to give him the boost that SSJB gives Goku and Vegeta anyway.

Black has a history of sandbagging, which is how Super Saiyan 2 Goku manages to hurt him. If his base form is already on par or even a little below Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan, his Super Saiyan form would make his stronger, even if it was just a 2X increase.

[Bullza]

Well he's definitely stronger than Super Saiyan Blue when he's in his Super Saiyan Rose form. Whether he's stronger than them in his Base form is arguable but their can't be too much of a difference.

He did beat Goku and Vegeta pretty easily in this episode. We'll need to see more to determine how much stronger than them he is.

[HeroR]

Well he's definitely stronger than Super Saiyan Blue when he's in his Super Saiyan Rose form. Whether he's stronger than them in his Base form is arguable but their can't be too much of a difference.

He did beat Goku and Vegeta pretty easily in this episode. We'll need to see more to determine how much stronger than them he is.

I didn't say Black was equal to Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Vegeta, I said on par. Like how Freeza was on par with Super Saiyan Goku after he started to used 100% of his power, but was still inferior. To me, that is how Black was before he transformed. He can take and give hits to Vegeta, but was still weaker.

The problem with Black is that he's like Goku, he sandbags and plays around. He is also like Goku in the sense that he likes to absorb hits instead of tank like most of the other villains. Unlike with Goku, however, we don't know what his limits are. Which is why fans thought he was barely stronger than Super Saiyan Trunks after he decked him in the gut.

[Bullza]

I think you could probably argue that he was stronger or weaker than SSJB in Base. I don't think it's clear either way.

Also it again disapproves the two base theory because sure he powered up from when he fought Goku in the present like they said but there wasn't much of a reaction to say he'd suddenly gotten thousand, tens of thousands of times stronger just because Goku punches him in the chest.

[Draconic]

Black was a little stronger than SSJ3 Goku, per Trunks' statement. It's clear from the first fight with SSJ2 Goku that both were holding back. Beyond SSJ3 there is only SSB. So Black was between 3 and Blue then powered up to the point he rivals SSB Vegeta in just base from just fighting a SSJ2 Goku, meaning the gap between 3 and Blue can't be that large. If this doesn't prove there is no two base theory in the anime and that Goku and Vegeta are just super freaking strong, I don't know what will.

Base Goku < SSJ Goku < SSJ2 Trunks < Zamasu < SSJ2 Goku ~ Base Black < SSJ3 Goku ~ Base Black full power < improved Base Black < SSB Goku < SSR Black.