Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[ZombieVito]

Trunks first appearance? What are you talking about?

Trunks never fought SSj2 Goku at full power and he still pushed him back. He is not worlds apart on equal forms.

[Bullza]

God I fucking hate how they made Trunks this OP. It's even worse than Freeza's gains. At least with him there's a good reason behind it.

Well at least it wasn't as bad as Tagoma

****

Anyway I was wondering...in the episode where Goku fought Zamasu, at the end he said he had a lot of room for improvement and could become as strong as Beerus one day.

What if this Future Zamasu were just that? Maybe Future Zamasu is even stronger than Super Saiyan Rose Black. Could be why he's ordering him around? Why attacks don't seem to affect him? Why perhaps Beerus and Zeno might get involved?

You'd think that Zamasu would be the real end villain of it all right? It's all his doing after all.

[HeroR]

Trunks first appearance? What are you talking about?

Trunks never fought SSj2 Goku at full power and he still pushed him back. He is not worlds apart on equal forms.

Trunks also pushed back Vegeta as a Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan and then got his ass kicked. Goku wasn't trying. He just blocked. This is the same BS that made people think Black was only a little stronger than Super Saiyan Trunks because Trunks managed to hit him in the gut.

[TheMikado]

He went from being weaker than Namek Freeza in base to be stronger than SSJ3 Gotenks by himself with no RoSaT or god ki in less than 10 years.

With that time Goku couldn't even surpass Namek Freeza by himself in base and he trained in otherworld and in Kaio's planet. Vegeta also had gravity training far superior to that and amounted to the same results.

I know hybrids have more potential but come on. You can only stretch that so far.

He's not stronger that SSJ3 Gotenks in the manga

[Bullza]

Trunks also pushed back Vegeta as a Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan and then got his ass kicked.

That's different to what happened with Goku. Vegeta backed away and put up his guard because the whole point of their game was him trying not to get hit. Goku was just pushed back because Trunks was strong enough to push him back.

[HeroR]

Trunks also pushed back Vegeta as a Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan and then got his ass kicked.

That's different to what happened with Goku. Vegeta backed away and put up his guard because the whole point of their game was him trying not to get hit. Goku was just pushed back because Trunks was strong enough to push him back.

Both Vegeta and Goku were literally doing the same thing. They put up their guard and let Trunks hit them, which pushed both of them back. The different, Vegeta kicked Trunks' ass afterwards, while Goku just caught Trunks' fits.

[Bullza]

I don't think they just let him attack them. He caught Vegeta off guard through trickery and Trunks took the opportunity to attack so Vegeta guarded himself to not get hit. I don't think he was pushed back he just jumped back to avoid getting hit.

Against Goku he just charged straight at him and wailed away and Goku had to defend himself. They mentioned that he was pushing Goku back as a point to show how strong Trunks was.

Either way considering he made Black guard himself too then if SSJB Vegeta wasnt THAT much stronger than him (which he doesn't seem to be) then it'd make sense that he'd be pushed back.

[DBZ Macky]

Krillin= 134,000,000/

So Krillin is stronger than 100% FP Freeza (Namek)? I wonder when did he improved so much.

That's obviously a mistake,I put 3 more zeros than there were

Thanks for sharing your opinion guys

[HeroR]

I don't think they just let him attack them. He caught Vegeta off guard through trickery and Trunks took the opportunity to attack so Vegeta guarded himself to not get hit. I don't think he was pushed back he just jumped back to avoid getting hit.

Against Goku he just charged straight at him and wailed away and Goku had to defend himself. They mentioned that he was pushing Goku back as a point to show how strong Trunks was.

Either way considering he made Black guard himself too then if SSJB Vegeta wasnt THAT much stronger than him (which he doesn't seem to be) then it'd make sense that he'd be pushed back.

Goku didn't bother to move nor was hurt by Trunks attacks. Vegeta showed more visible strain than Goku. And only kid Trunks made that pushing back comment.

Trunks did more visible damage to Black as a Super Saiyan then he did against Super Saiyan 2 Goku, and we saw Black wreck Super Saiyan 2 Trunks in a flashback.

[Bullza]

Kid Trunks made the comment but it's not as though Vegeta chimed in by saying he was messing about or not trying.

Was Trunks Super Saiyan when he fought Black? Again I don't see what the big issue is with Trunks being stronger than Goku as a SSJ2. We already know he is in the manga and they said he pushed him back while he was holding back and had better feats than Frost and Cabba and Goku and Beerus commented on how strong he was.

[ZombieVito]

He went from being weaker than Namek Freeza in base to be stronger than SSJ3 Gotenks by himself with no RoSaT or god ki in less than 10 years.

With that time Goku couldn't even surpass Namek Freeza by himself in base and he trained in otherworld and in Kaio's planet. Vegeta also had gravity training far superior to that and amounted to the same results.

I know hybrids have more potential but come on. You can only stretch that so far.

He's not stronger that SSJ3 Gotenks in the manga

I don't care about Super's manga at all or wish to discuss it's power levels.

[TheMikado]

^ well then yes I can see why that would be a problem.

[Bullza]

Even though the manga has the characters at Cell/Buu level and the anime at SSJG+ level I still think the way characters relate to each other is still pretty much the same in either version.

Base Cabba is still on par with Base Vegeta. Frost is still in between Base and Super Saiyan. Black is still stronger than SSJ2 Trunks, Hit is still weaker than SSJB Goku. It still goes Base -> SSJ -> SSJ2 -> SSJ3 etc so if SSJ2 Trunks is in between SSJ2 and SSJ3 Goku in the manga then he should be aswell in the anime.

[TheMikado]

That's correct, basically at this point we can pretty much say Trunks is more power than Goku/Vegeta in SSJ2 which also makes the pretty good comments make sense.

[HeroR]

Kid Trunks made the comment but it's not as though Vegeta chimed in by saying he was messing about or not trying.

Was Trunks Super Saiyan when he fought Black? Again I don't see what the big issue is with Trunks being stronger than Goku as a SSJ2. We already know he is in the manga and they said he pushed him back while he was holding back and had better feats than Frost and Cabba and Goku and Beerus commented on how strong he was.

Vegeta said nothing but watched. He neither looked impressed or upset.

The manga went out of its way to say that Super Saiyan 2 Trunks is stronger than Super Saiyan 2 Goku. Goku also didn't absorb godhood in the manga. In the anime, it was never implied that Trunks was stronger than Goku. Only that he has gotten stronger since the last time we saw him. Frost and Cabba actually beat up Goku and Vegeta at various point. Goku did nothing but blocked and caught Trunks' fists. Frost and Cabba's feats are far more impressive than anything Trunks has shown.

Also, all Beerus said was, 'oh, he's pretty good'. Which means crap since he was impressed by Super Saiyan 3 Goku, yet talked trash to Rage Vegeta who was stronger than Goku.

[TheMikado]

^ well if we're talking about Super the anime then Beerus also lied to Vegeta in that same scene about 10% power so you can either go with Beerus is a pathological liar or you have to take his comments at face value.

[Bullza]

Vegeta said nothing but watched. He neither looked impressed or upset.

He would have chimed in though if Goku were holding back or there was something wrong with what Kid Trunks said so to let the audience know. Kid Trunks told the audience that Trunks was pushing Goku back and nothing was ever said that suggested that Trunks wasn't just strong enough to be able to do that.

Goku also didn't absorb godhood in the manga.

But it's all about how the characters are written to relate to each other. Goku didn't absorb the power of God in the manga but it doesn't really affect the story because most of the characters have just been lowered down when compared to the anime so in order to have the same fights and results.

Regardless if they're at one level in the anime and a hugely reduced level in the manga if it was just in Toriyama's outline for Trunks to be inbetween Goku's SSJ2 and SSJ3 strength then that's just where he should be in both versions. Considering that both still have the same sort of order of how characters stack up to each other then it doesn't make much sense for Trunks to be stronger than SSJ2 Goku in the manga but then drastically weaker than Base Goku in the anime.

Beerus doesn't call Trunks pretty good in the manga but if that's because they're at regular levels in the manga then that's probably why.

Frost and Cabba's feats are far more impressive than anything Trunks has shown.

Frost launched a barrage of his own on SSJ Goku and he never budged from the middle of the arena. Trunks pushed back SSJ2 Goku. Cabba was knocked out with a small punch to the gut from SSJB Vegeta before he knew what happened. Trunks received a pummeling and remained conscious and could react to him.

If Trunks was shown to be much stronger than Frost in his fight with Goku in the manga then why would Trunks being drastically weaker than Frost in the anime?

[buutenks]

How about we just agree that anime PL are screwed beyond belief and it contradicts itself every episode?

Like seriously, ssj2 Trunks pushes back ssj2 Goku, then Vegeta says, Goku's real power is much greater than that. Then Vegeta in ssj blue needs to aparently throw punches and kicks towards Trunks, wouldnt poking him have sufficed if ssjblue is so much greater than ssj3 Goku? Then we have Trunks unable to sense god ki, but base Goku can. And apparently it is power related.

Db super has become like the comics. A ton of writes=a ton of inconsistencies,

I vote, we go by manga for Power scaling and stuff, because it has only one writer, and that write is supervised by Toriyama, so it would be much more consistent.

Anyone agree?

I hope they show some new impressive feats this arc. Cos while i enjoyed Black tormenting earth, King Piccolo could do that...

Idk about u guys, but i like a bit of consistency in feats, since its cool and all that they did some wonky universal shockwaves, but if u go 4-5 arcs and best they do is bust some buildings in their fight, something is wrong.

DBZ(ignoring PL cos they r BS) was quite consistent tbh. Each new arc showed or told new feats that trumped previous ones. Freeza busting namek, Cell saying he will nuke the solar system, kid buu casually nuking earth, Goku shaking earth while powering up to ssj3 etc.

I hope DBS wont turn into GT feat wise.

[Bullza]

I'm pretty sure Vegeta would be refereeing to Goku being able to turn Super Saiyan Blue when he mentioned his real power.

I don't think the anime's (or the manga's) are too much of a mess. They're mostly consistent, the problem is they just haven't made things as clear as they probably could have. Them being at entirely different levels in the anime and the manga is confusing. If we knew exactly where the God power Goku absorbed went it'd make things a lot easier because we don't really know if Base = SSJG or SSJ = SSJG or neither or they got a partial amount or what.

I still think the power scaling would be the same in the anime and the manga even if they're at different levels (with a couple exceptions like Piccolo). For example if in the manga a new character named Bob were shown to be stronger than Magetta then he should also be stronger than Magetta in the anime even if in the anime Magetta is thousands of times more powerful.

I'd like to see some new feats. I wouldn't mind seeing someone destroy a Universe on the screen, it wouldn't be surprising at this point with what they've said but it'd be interesting to see someone do it. I don't know what more they could do, they've destroyed planets by tapping fingers, flown across parts of the universe in minutes, caused shockwaves that threaten universes. Hard to top things like that, all I can think of is that they haven't really been shown to lift anything staggering like a mountain or anything (though Goku did push one apart in Z).

[buutenks]

I'm pretty sure Vegeta would be refereeing to Goku being able to turn Super Saiyan Blue when he mentioned his real power.

I don't think the anime's (or the manga's) are too much of a mess. They're mostly consistent, the problem is they just haven't made things as clear as they probably could have. Them being at entirely different levels in the anime and the manga is confusing. If we knew exactly where the God power Goku absorbed went it'd make things a lot easier because we don't really know if Base = SSJG or SSJ = SSJG or neither or they got a partial amount or what.

That is what i meant, Vegeta meant ssj blue is Goku's max power. So if ssj blue is so much greater than ssj3 Goku who knocked the ssj2 out of Trunks with one punch, why would ssj blue Vegeta have to use kicks and punches? Some simple finger taps should have sufficed to throw Trunks arrowed and show him the difference between him and ssj blue. On top of that the ki sensing thing. They are basically contradicting themselves each episode. They dont explain anything.

I still think the power scaling would be the same in the anime and the manga even if they're at different levels (with a couple exceptions like Piccolo). For example if in the manga a new character named Bob were shown to be stronger than Magetta then he should also be stronger than Magetta in the anime even if in the anime Magetta is thousands of times more powerful.

I'd like to see some new feats. I wouldn't mind seeing someone destroy a Universe on the screen, it wouldn't be surprising at this point with what they've said but it'd be interesting to see someone do it. I don't know what more they could do, they've destroyed planets by tapping fingers, flown across parts of the universe in minutes, caused shockwaves that threaten universes. Hard to top things like that, all I can think of is that they haven't really been shown to lift anything staggering like a mountain or anything (though Goku did push one apart in Z).

My concern is, the universal shockwaves are ignored and will be forgotten. If they added it, they should keep it consistent. if they cant, they shouldnt have added it for the giggles. It makes future characters look weak. Or at the least, have some character come and say: hey how come no wonky shockwaves are happening? And then they explain some BS stuff why its not happening.

I liked how they reinforced the idea that Beerus and Champa are universal in the u6 arc. But we cant give that power to Goku, Golden Freeza, Hit, because they are much weaker than Beerus an Champa.

Basically, when i might debate in the future, i dont wanna say like: Well u remember the BOG arc, when Goku made those universal shockwaves?U know 10 arcs ago, a few years back? Ye Goku is really strong. Its like, scaling everyone off of Piccolo's moon busting, since no other impressive feats that were close to it were done, to reinforce that feat.