Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[Bullza]

So if ssj blue is so much greater than ssj3 Goku who knocked the ssj2 out of Trunks with one punch, why would ssj blue Vegeta have to use kicks and punches?

I don't know it's weird because Black was supposed to be stronger than SSJ3 Goku but Trunks wasn't knocked out with one punch there and Black was trying to kill him.

It's hard to say without seeing Toriyama's outlines but in both the anime and the manga Goku after the SSJ2 part of the fight defeats Trunks with a single blow. Well in the manga he does that using SSJG but in the anime he doesn't turn into SSJG so he one shots him using SSJ3 instead.

SSJ3 Goku one shotting Trunks seems contradictory with everything else we saw and heard in both versions. If he can put hold his own against Black he should be comparable to SSJ3 Goku just like he is in the manga.

My concern is, the universal shockwaves are ignored and will be forgotten. If they added it, they should keep it consistent. if they cant, they shouldnt have added it for the giggles. It makes future characters look weak.

It might just be one of those things that's introduced at first to show how they're on a completely different level but then it'd be inconvenient to keep something like that consistent.

Like how when Vegeta powered up in the Saiyan Saga and it was causing the Earth to tremble and it summoned lighting and hurricanes but then much more powerful characters power up and then never happens.

At least you can say if there are other bro fist clashes involving Goku that it wouldn't be causing any shockwaves because he'd learnt how to negate it. What other fist and energy clashes has there been since then?

[buutenks]

I don't know it's weird because Black was supposed to be stronger than SSJ3 Goku but Trunks wasn't knocked out with one punch there and Black was trying to kill him.

It's hard to say without seeing Toriyama's outlines but in both the anime and the manga Goku after the SSJ2 part of the fight defeats Trunks with a single blow. Well in the manga he does that using SSJG but in the anime he doesn't turn into SSJG so he one shots him using SSJ3 instead.

SSJ3 Goku one shotting Trunks seems contradictory with everything else we saw and heard in both versions. If he can put hold his own against Black he should be comparable to SSJ3 Goku just like he is in the manga.

Why i kept saying anime PL makes no sense. It is currently impossible to make sense of anime PL. You would have to ignore half the stuff for it to make sense. Also i believe the manga is closer to what Toriyama thinks. I know he wrote the movies and made Goku absorb ssg. But i doubt he is that ignorant as to keep it that way for the retellings and such. Why would Toyotaru(that his name?) make stuff up in the manga retelling of BOG? Especially if he was in touch with Toriyama, who was checking out his work. The anime is identical to the BOG movie, with some slight changes. While the manga retelling, is very different. id say Toriyama, planned it and nerfed base form back to well, to whatever PL base form Goku had before BOG.

So, its basically ssj blue>ssj god>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>ssj3>>ssj2>ssj1>>>>>>>base form. It makes the most sense. That also means we dont need to power up characters, especially since there were no statements that said characters even got massive power ups.

It might just be one of those things that's introduced at first to show how they're on a completely different level but then it'd be inconvenient to keep something like that consistent.

Like how when Vegeta powered up in the Saiyan Saga and it was causing the Earth to tremble and it summoned lighting and hurricanes but then much more powerful characters power up and then never happens.

At least you can say if there are other bro fist clashes involving Goku that it wouldn't be causing any shockwaves because he'd learnt how to negate it. What other fist and energy clashes has there been since then?

Hmm, well i guess i will have to wait to see how they do in future arcs.

I hope they get some new transformation, ssj blue is getting a bit old...

[TheMikado]

I agree with buutenks, the only issue I have is using GT as a dumpster comparison when not even GT was this bad on such and a consistent and regular basis. Super anime power levels are literally worse than any other DB series ever and that includes GT.

[buutenks]

I believe, the issues is because it has to many writers. In one ep, they do one thing, then in another ep its different. Like ssj3 Goku one shotting Trunks, then Vegeta says ssj blue is much stronger, then in another ep, ssj Blue Vegeta uses kicks and punches on Trunks, when simple light taps should suffice, if ssj blue is that much stronger than ssj3 as they said some episodes back.

The only consistent thing there is in the anime, is the big picture. Aka Whi>beerus>ssj Blue>everyone else. But trying to find out how much strong, is beyond impossible atm.

In the manga, ssj2 trunks is inbetween Majin Vegeta and Fat Buu power wise. ANime?Bloody hell knows, he could be ssj2 vegetto level, or 100 times stronger than ssg, or 2 times stronger than ssg or ssj3 Gotenks level. basically, he can be any power level you want lol. it is that inconsistent. You just choose which u prefer the most.

[Bullza]

Also i believe the manga is closer to what Toriyama thinks. I know he wrote the movies and made Goku absorb ssg. But i doubt he is that ignorant as to keep it that way for the retellings and such.

Ehhh I dunno. From the Champa saga onward they've been damn near the same. The story is the same, the settings are the same, the fights have played out very similar to each other with the biggest difference being the Goku vs Hit fight which still started and ended the same, the victors are the same, a lot of dialogue has been the same etc.

Goku not absorbing God in the manga hasn't gotten in the way of the story or anything.

id say Toriyama, planned it and nerfed base form back to well, to whatever PL base form Goku had before BOG.

If he'd decided something like that then there was every opportunity to make that clear in the series. He only just started writing these outlines while people were still going to see Resurrection F in theatres.

I don't think there's been any retcon I just think Toyotaro decided to go with something different for some reason. Maybe he wanted SSJG to be still be used.

In the manga, ssj2 trunks is inbetween Majin Vegeta and Fat Buu power wise. ANime?Bloody hell knows, he could be ssj2 vegetto level, or 100 times stronger than ssg, or 2 times stronger than ssg or ssj3 Gotenks level.

He should just compare to Goku in the same way. If he's comparable to Goku in his Super Saiyan forms in the manga then he should be aswell in the anime because that's where he's meant to be if that was what Toriyama wrote in his outline.

We might get another idea in the next episode if Trunks fights Zamasu of where they stand. Zamasu was weaker than SSJ2 Goku. If Zamasu isn't said to have powered up since that time and Trunks is completely helpless against him then SSJ2 Trunks isn't stronger than SSJ2 Goku.

Though I expect Zamasu will be considerably more powerful than when Goku fought him.

[Helios518]

My concern is, the universal shockwaves are ignored and will be forgotten. If they added it, they should keep it consistent. if they cant, they shouldnt have added it for the giggles. It makes future characters look weak. Or at the least, have some character come and say: hey how come no wonky shockwaves are happening? And then they explain some BS stuff why its not happening.

I liked how they reinforced the idea that Beerus and Champa are universal in the u6 arc. But we cant give that power to Goku, Golden Freeza, Hit, because they are much weaker than Beerus an Champa.

Basically, when i might debate in the future, i dont wanna say like: Well u remember the BOG arc, when Goku made those universal shockwaves?U know 10 arcs ago, a few years back? Ye Goku is really strong. Its like, scaling everyone off of Piccolo's moon busting, since no other impressive feats that were close to it were done, to reinforce that feat.

This is the same case with the planet busting in DBZ, It was only a 2 time thing because they can't have planet busting fightings all the time because most of the heroes can't survive in space.

Why not? We've seen this in DBZ where we see characters like Perfect Cell who's 100s or 1000s of times stronger than 1st form Frieza but can only destroy planets. Also destructive power is not linear look how multiplying the power of a normal human by 20-100 make them a moon buster and later the destructive power gains are nowhere near as big as the gap between Human and Roshi/Piccolo.

Again there's no reason to them always have planet busting fights let alone universe busting fights when they either can't do it (because the heroes can't survive in space) or won't do it (Frieza has no reason to destroy the universe he wants to rule, No one in the tournament wants to destroy it for obvious reasons, Black/Zamasu only wants to destroy humans not everything.)

[buutenks]

This is the same case with the planet busting in DBZ, It was only a 2 time thing because they can't have planet busting fightings all the time because most of the heroes can't survive in space.

Why not? We've seen this in DBZ where we see characters like Perfect Cell who's 100s or 1000s of times stronger than 1st form Frieza but can only destroy planets. Also destructive power is not linear look how multiplying the power of a normal human by 20-100 make them a moon buster which they shouldn't be at all if it was linear.

Again there's no reason to them always have planet busting fights let alone universe busting fights when they either can't do it (because the heroes can't survive in space) or won't do it (Frieza has no reason to destroy the universe he wants to rule, No one in the tournament wants to destroy it for obvious reasons, Black/Zamasu only wants to destroy humans not everything.)

Planet busting was legit tho in DBZ, since it was mention a thousand times. Freeza, busts namek, King Cold, oh small planet, lets blow it up with a simple ki blast. Android saga, Vegeta says he could blow up earth if he so wished. Cell saga, Vegeta nearly blows up earth but changes the direction of his attack in space. Cell claims he can destroy the whole solar system. Buu, blows up several hundred planets, then earth. Basically them being planet busters is shoved down your throat every arc, just incase u forgot.

Universal shockwaves? Oh happened in Bog, no one mentions it again ever again. That is my issues. I know Beerus and Champa are universal, since it was pretty much showed in BOG they are, and in u6 arc they again state it incase we forgot what threat they are, and they introduce a stronger character who can multi universe bust, so obviously these guys are in the i can bust a universe camp. But the weaker characters? Goku, Hit? Golden Freeza? Vegeta etc? No one even mentions anything about the shockwaves. No one even goes, omg if these 2 beings fight wont the universe go boom? Since u know, Goku foguht before and yada yad? And then some dude says, aha but they wont cos, they are canceling it or w/e. But nothing what so ever. It is like it didnt even happen. I dont really care if some people on the internet doent believe Goku etc arent universal, what bugs me is when in universe no one mention this.

They dont care for consistency, which bugs me. I dont want feats, aka universe destruction. Just have Black Rose say, ahan now i am at the level where i could destroy the entire universe. Done.

Once its a coincidence, 2 times, well its intentional,

[Helios518]

Planet busting was legit tho in DBZ, since it was mention a thousand times. Freeza, busts namek, King Cold, oh small planet, lets blow it up with a simple ki blast. Android saga, Vegeta says he could blow up earth if he so wished. Cell saga, Vegeta nearly blows up earth but changes the direction of his attack in space. Cell claims he can destroy the whole solar system. Buu, blows up several hundred planets, then earth. Basically them being planet busters is shoved down your throat every arc, just incase u forgot.

Universal shockwaves? Oh happened in Bog, no one mentions it again ever again. That is my issues. I know Beerus and Champa are universal, since it was pretty much showed in BOG they are, and in u6 arc they again state it incase we forgot what threat they are, and they introduce a stronger character who can multi universe bust, so obviously these guys are in the i can bust a universe camp. But the weaker characters? Goku, Hit? Golden Freeza? Vegeta etc? No one even mentions anything about the shockwaves. No one even goes, omg if these 2 beings fight wont the universe go boom? Since u know, Goku foguht before and yada yad? And then some dude says, aha but they wont cos, they are canceling it or w/e. But nothing what so ever. It is like it didnt even happen. I dont really care if some people on the internet doent believe Goku etc arent universal, what bugs me is when in universe no one mention this.

They dont care for consistency, which bugs me. I dont want feats, aka universe destruction. Just have Black Rose say, ahan now i am at the level where i could destroy the entire universe. Done.

Honestly if anyone believes the Cell claiming to destroy the solar system but not the universal SSJG Goku despite the latter having more evidence then they're being biased. If you were to give all those planet busters universal strength then the only one in-character that would say he could destroy the universe would be Buu (at least Super Buu and his fused forms) because he would actually do it.

The same reason the cast didn't mention the planet could get destroyed when fighting the androids, the Ginyu force, Babidi's henchmen, Uub, Imperfect Cell, etc.

True about the consistency thing. Also I doubt Black would say something like that in-character considering one of the thing he associates humans with is destruction.

[buutenks]

Honestly if anyone believes the Cell claiming to destroy the solar system but not the universal SSJG Goku despite the latter having more evidence then they're being biased. If you were to give all those planet busters universal strength then the only one in-character that would say he could destroy the universe would be Buu (at least Super Buu and his fused forms) because he would actually do it.

The same reason the cast didn't mention the planet could get destroyed when fighting the androids, the Ginyu force, Babidi's henchmen, Uub, Imperfect Cell, etc.

True about the consistency thing. Also I doubt Black would say something like that in-character considering one of the thing he associates humans with is destruction.

Well, Black was more of an example. I simply dont wish for universal threat to be forgotten. In DBZ, planet being in danger was a thing. So, if they took the route of universe level, they best bring some characters who actually threaten it, so u can get a sense of progression in power.

[ZombieVito]

How about we just agree that anime PL are screwed beyond belief and it contradicts itself every episode?

Like seriously, ssj2 Trunks pushes back ssj2 Goku, then Vegeta says, Goku's real power is much greater than that. Then Vegeta in ssj blue needs to aparently throw punches and kicks towards Trunks, wouldnt poking him have sufficed if ssjblue is so much greater than ssj3 Goku? Then we have Trunks unable to sense god ki, but base Goku can. And apparently it is power related.

This is just a silly thing to complain about. Besides it's obvious Vegeta went easy on him, it was a test after all.

The ki sensing thing gives a bit of validity to the two base theory but meh.

[Bullza]

To add to the confusion that is God Ki sensing back when Vegeta was on Whis' planet Goku couldn't sense Beerus or Vegeta's energy (or Whis). Which seemed as though it had something to do with them being too far away though that didn't make much sense because SSJ3 Goku's energy could be felt across the universe.

But then in a recent episode Goku just teleported over to Beerus. Why couldn't he do that the first time? Why was Beerus and Whis too far away to be sensed but then he could sense Kid Trunks?

[DBZGTKOSDH]

To add to the confusion that is God Ki sensing back when Vegeta was on Whis' planet Goku couldn't sense Beerus or Vegeta's energy (or Whis). Which seemed as though it had something to do with them being too far away though that didn't make much sense because SSJ3 Goku's energy could be felt across the universe.

But then in a recent episode Goku just teleported over to Beerus. Why couldn't he do that the first time? Why was Beerus and Whis too far away to be sensed but then he could sense Kid Trunks?

Beerus & Whis were relaxed, they didn't have their ki at an intense mode.

[GodKaio-Ken]

To add to the confusion that is God Ki sensing back when Vegeta was on Whis' planet Goku couldn't sense Beerus or Vegeta's energy (or Whis). Which seemed as though it had something to do with them being too far away though that didn't make much sense because SSJ3 Goku's energy could be felt across the universe.

But then in a recent episode Goku just teleported over to Beerus. Why couldn't he do that the first time? Why was Beerus and Whis too far away to be sensed but then he could sense Kid Trunks?

It may be dub filler, cant remember, but doesn't Goku in Z explain you can also think of somewhere you have been before or know the location of?

[Bullza]

They weren't intense in the recent episode either. Whis was just standing there like he always was and Beerus was sitting on a rock.

It may be dub filler, cant remember, but doesn't Goku in Z explain you can also think of somewhere you have been before or know the location of?

Ugh I dunno but if that were true then it wouldn't make sense how in the movie when Goku was on Earth he said he was too far to pick up a signal which was why they all had to power up.

[GodKaio-Ken]

They weren't intense in the recent episode either. Whis was just standing there like he always was and Beerus was sitting on a rock.

It may be dub filler, cant remember, but doesn't Goku in Z explain you can also think of somewhere you have been before or know the location of?

Ugh I dunno but if that were true then it wouldn't make sense how in the movie when Goku was on Earth he said he was too far to pick up a signal which was why they all had to power up.

Good point there actually. Then again Toriyama has never played by the rules....not even his own

[ssbgoku]

Great to see thread so full of life . I guess super anime is doing really great job in making/helping discussion of power level even if in negative way as people are confused. After all it doesn't matter if you are talking about something/someone in good or bad way as long as you talk about it, where aim is just something being discussed and pulling our attention. Joking aside, I agree with everyone stating that characters's standing in power level relation/comparision are the same or at least close in both manga and anime. Actually what only differs them is super Saiyan god power being absorbed in anime, or at least as it was accepted and hit vs goku fight, where kaioken was brought back, so this time I will try to avoid long big post, but instead try to create different pathways for power of characters depending on which pathway you guys want to choose(anime wise):

1) Super Saiyan god power being absorbed and goku not dropping at all in power while switching to super Saiyan, then fight beerus like that with no problem and finally in base for short brief moment destroying destructive ball sent by beerus.

a. It was just prototype of super Saiyan blue. Hold on, but he lacked divine ki and was sensable, right ? Well trick could be whis's training about ki not leaking out or goku lack of control over divine ki which mixed with his regular ki. Isn't it also interested why it was super Saiyan transformation to which goku reverted into instead of something else. Note also that beerus mentions crimson fite of ssg still burning inside you and it seemed to be only one time of thing.

b. At that time, Toei was just following Akira's mind that neither ss2 or ss3 will be brought up so the most powerfull transormation and iconic and legendary one at top of all these stuff was ss, that why Goku reverted to ss after time limit of ssg runs out.

c. Retconn, Akira decided that absorbing goodhood means only that he would one day bring out this world of power back but for that he needed whis's training so that why it wasn't until goku turned ssb for King Kai to comment how goku regained god power finally. Super Saiyan or base with crimson fire were only one thing of time.

d. Super Saiyan was indeed equal to ssg at that time, and base is only x 50 but it later was contradicted, so plot hole ?

2) In the ressurection of freeza arc, Both gohan and krillin commented on goku being even stronger then he was against beerus. We know that goku was in base at that time, so it could mean:

a. Rof Base goku > post ssg base goku, nothing about ss as both whis and beerus commented how much goku and vegeta improved but still were barerly reaching god power. Beerus being impressed would be addressed that he meant: stronger base->stronger ss(ssg)

b. Rof base goku > post ssg ss goku, well it would only contradict whis's statement about goku and vegeta much improving but still being barerly god level while oracle fish brought up ss tranformation as very powerfull one(x50 mutliplier)

3) Kaiokenx10 ssb goku, well it was not only not expected and brought a more confusion and messed power level/comparision even more. I guess it was one time of thing to increase ratings of watching maybe as people would be hyped for it. Sure it looked cool and all, but hardly made sense in compare to full power ss not being compatible with kaioken

4) Copy water arc is hard to accept as filler or not, but I guess at least it was made to show us where at least base goku and base vegeta could be..., still it would make ss tranformation not enough to put on ssg level not even mentioning being stronger.

5) Lastly while goku used ss2 against Zamasu Beerus didn't even acknowledge goku being as strong as he was when he fought beerus or at least isn't as impressed with him which again shout out retconn for beerus's power and ssg not being relevant anyway, which would be rather dumb.

To be honest I am going by: 1)a/b/c(combination of them) -> 2)a, This way base goku/vegeta vastly improved still so they would be above ss3 level buu arc, but not so far above everyone without transformations.

Also about Future trunks, let's say he had 10 years for his ss2 to be vastly improved and considering the was fighting and somehow surviving hard clashes with goku Black for 1 year or so... I can definietly see Trunks improving to at least ss3 vegetoo level, which may sound ridiculous but doesn't it sound familliar(freeza 4 months training), lol.

[DBZ Macky]

Great to see thread so full of life . I guess super anime is doing really great job in making/helping discussion of power level even if in negative way as people are confused. After all it doesn't matter if you are talking about something/someone in good or bad way as long as you talk about it, where aim is just something being discussed and pulling our attention. Joking aside, I agree with everyone stating that characters's standing in power level relation/comparision are the same or at least close in both manga and anime. Actually what only differs them is super Saiyan god power being absorbed in anime, or at least as it was accepted and hit vs goku fight, where kaioken was brought back, so this time I will try to avoid long big post, but instead try to create different pathways for power of characters depending on which pathway you guys want to choose(anime wise):

1) Super Saiyan god power being absorbed and goku not dropping at all in power while switching to super Saiyan, then fight beerus like that with no problem and finally in base for short brief moment destroying destructive ball sent by beerus.

a. It was just prototype of super Saiyan blue. Hold on, but he lacked divine ki and was sensable, right ? Well trick could be whis's training about ki not leaking out or goku lack of control over divine ki which mixed with his regular ki. Isn't it also interested why it was super Saiyan transformation to which goku reverted into instead of something else. Note also that beerus mentions crimson fite of ssg still burning inside you and it seemed to be only one time of thing.

b. At that time, Toei was just following Akira's mind that neither ss2 or ss3 will be brought up so the most powerfull transormation and iconic and legendary one at top of all these stuff was ss, that why Goku reverted to ss after time limit of ssg runs out.

c. Retconn, Akira decided that absorbing goodhood means only that he would one day bring out this world of power back but for that he needed whis's training so that why it wasn't until goku turned ssb for King Kai to comment how goku regained god power finally. Super Saiyan or base with crimson fire were only one thing of time.

d. Super Saiyan was indeed equal to ssg at that time, and base is only x 50 but it later was contradicted, so plot hole ?

2) In the ressurection of freeza arc, Both gohan and krillin commented on goku being even stronger then he was against beerus. We know that goku was in base at that time, so it could mean:

a. Rof Base goku > post ssg base goku, nothing about ss as both whis and beerus commented how much goku and vegeta improved but still were barerly reaching god power. Beerus being impressed would be addressed that he meant: stronger base->stronger ss(ssg)

b. Rof base goku > post ssg ss goku, well it would only contradict whis's statement about goku and vegeta much improving but still being barerly god level while oracle fish brought up ss tranformation as very powerfull one(x50 mutliplier)

3) Kaiokenx10 ssb goku, well it was not only not expected and brought a more confusion and messed power level/comparision even more. I guess it was one time of thing to increase ratings of watching maybe as people would be hyped for it. Sure it looked cool and all, but hardly made sense in compare to full power ss not being compatible with kaioken

4) Copy water arc is hard to accept as filler or not, but I guess at least it was made to show us where at least base goku and base vegeta could be..., still it would make ss tranformation not enough to put on ssg level not even mentioning being stronger.

5) Lastly while goku used ss2 against Zamasu Beerus didn't even acknowledge goku being as strong as he was when he fought beerus or at least isn't as impressed with him which again shout out retconn for beerus's power and ssg not being relevant anyway, which would be rather dumb.

To be honest I am going by: 1)a/b/c(combination of them) -> 2)a, This way base goku/vegeta vastly improved still so they would be above ss3 level buu arc, but not so far above everyone without transformations.

Also about Future trunks, let's say he had 10 years for his ss2 to be vastly improved and considering the was fighting and somehow surviving hard clashes with goku Black for 1 year or so... I can definietly see Trunks improving to at least ss3 vegetoo level, which may sound ridiculous but doesn't it sound familliar(freeza 4 months training), lol.

So SSJG from BoG is basically ~1% of Beerus's TRUE power. Wow.

[buutenks]

So SSJG from BoG is basically ~1% of Beerus's TRUE power. Wow.

Depends which u want to belive. Everyone above ssg? Only ssj blue and a select few above ssg?

[ssbgoku]

Great to see thread so full of life . I guess super anime is doing really great job in making/helping discussion of power level even if in negative way as people are confused. After all it doesn't matter if you are talking about something/someone in good or bad way as long as you talk about it, where aim is just something being discussed and pulling our attention. Joking aside, I agree with everyone stating that characters's standing in power level relation/comparision are the same or at least close in both manga and anime. Actually what only differs them is super Saiyan god power being absorbed in anime, or at least as it was accepted and hit vs goku fight, where kaioken was brought back, so this time I will try to avoid long big post, but instead try to create different pathways for power of characters depending on which pathway you guys want to choose(anime wise):

1) Super Saiyan god power being absorbed and goku not dropping at all in power while switching to super Saiyan, then fight beerus like that with no problem and finally in base for short brief moment destroying destructive ball sent by beerus.

a. It was just prototype of super Saiyan blue. Hold on, but he lacked divine ki and was sensable, right ? Well trick could be whis's training about ki not leaking out or goku lack of control over divine ki which mixed with his regular ki. Isn't it also interested why it was super Saiyan transformation to which goku reverted into instead of something else. Note also that beerus mentions crimson fite of ssg still burning inside you and it seemed to be only one time of thing.

b. At that time, Toei was just following Akira's mind that neither ss2 or ss3 will be brought up so the most powerfull transormation and iconic and legendary one at top of all these stuff was ss, that why Goku reverted to ss after time limit of ssg runs out.

c. Retconn, Akira decided that absorbing goodhood means only that he would one day bring out this world of power back but for that he needed whis's training so that why it wasn't until goku turned ssb for King Kai to comment how goku regained god power finally. Super Saiyan or base with crimson fire were only one thing of time.

d. Super Saiyan was indeed equal to ssg at that time, and base is only x 50 but it later was contradicted, so plot hole ?

2) In the ressurection of freeza arc, Both gohan and krillin commented on goku being even stronger then he was against beerus. We know that goku was in base at that time, so it could mean:

a. Rof Base goku > post ssg base goku, nothing about ss as both whis and beerus commented how much goku and vegeta improved but still were barerly reaching god power. Beerus being impressed would be addressed that he meant: stronger base->stronger ss(ssg)

b. Rof base goku > post ssg ss goku, well it would only contradict whis's statement about goku and vegeta much improving but still being barerly god level while oracle fish brought up ss tranformation as very powerfull one(x50 mutliplier)

3) Kaiokenx10 ssb goku, well it was not only not expected and brought a more confusion and messed power level/comparision even more. I guess it was one time of thing to increase ratings of watching maybe as people would be hyped for it. Sure it looked cool and all, but hardly made sense in compare to full power ss not being compatible with kaioken

4) Copy water arc is hard to accept as filler or not, but I guess at least it was made to show us where at least base goku and base vegeta could be..., still it would make ss tranformation not enough to put on ssg level not even mentioning being stronger.

5) Lastly while goku used ss2 against Zamasu Beerus didn't even acknowledge goku being as strong as he was when he fought beerus or at least isn't as impressed with him which again shout out retconn for beerus's power and ssg not being relevant anyway, which would be rather dumb.

To be honest I am going by: 1)a/b/c(combination of them) -> 2)a, This way base goku/vegeta vastly improved still so they would be above ss3 level buu arc, but not so far above everyone without transformations.

Also about Future trunks, let's say he had 10 years for his ss2 to be vastly improved and considering the was fighting and somehow surviving hard clashes with goku Black for 1 year or so... I can definietly see Trunks improving to at least ss3 vegetoo level, which may sound ridiculous but doesn't it sound familliar(freeza 4 months training), lol.

So SSJG from BoG is basically ~1% of Beerus's TRUE power. Wow.

I guess more like at least 6% but less then 10% if we include kaioken as real stuff, not just for entertainment one time thing to be forgotten.
If we don't inlclude kaioken then I guess 6-10-15 scale still work as long as you don't have current ss >= ssg, which i myself dont. Now it is mystery for me why goku didnt revert to ss3 after ssg time limit run out. I mean sure at that time it made sense but currently unless you you see it as only one time thing or ssb prototype then it doesnt make sense. Also if they wanted to keep cuurent ss goku as ssg level then then could make goku turn in ss against freeza and show golden freeza supperior forcing goku to turn ssb to stand even chance

[buutenks]

I guess more like at least 6% but less then 10% if we include kaioken as real stuff, not just for entertainment one time thing to be forgotten.
If we don't inlclude kaioken then I guess 6-10-15 scale still work as long as you don't have current ss >= ssg, which i myself dont. Now it is mystery for me why goku didnt revert to ss3 after ssg time limit run out. I mean sure at that time it made sense but currently unless you you see it as only one time thing or ssb prototype then it doesnt make sense. Also if they wanted to keep cuurent ss goku as ssg level then then could make goku turn in ss against freeza and show golden freeza supperior forcing goku to turn ssb to stand even chance

I simply view it as, that ssj1-3 is below ssg and kkx10 was a one time thing. Since they had to make Goku 10x stronger than Vegeta. Toyotaru took the route of simply weakening ssj blue Vegeta's power and gave a reason why that happened. While Toei, just pumped Goku to be 10x stronger.

Basically i consider kkx10 filler. Some say copy Vegeta arc is filler, but we had flash backs to that arc in the Black arc, so it is connected. So unless someone mentions kkx10 or has a flash back. I consider it as like it never happened.

Edit; Also, Toei are being annoying for not thinking through with the stuff they make.