A name change for Mr. Satan in the Broadcast?

[Piccolo Daimaoh]

Go back and read my posts in this thread, as I think I established why "Mark" would be the best option. Care to explain how "Hercule" or some variation of "Satan" that isn't actually "Satan" is accurate to the anime? Surely, you've got proof of this, as that's the argument you're using against "Mark."

NickToons won't use "Mr. Satan" because it has demonic connotations and they won't use "Mark" because hardly anyone knows him by that name. Most people either know him as "Hercule" or "Mr. Satan". For these reasons, I am fairly certain that "Hercule" will be use as the character's name in the broadcast dub of Dragon Ball Z Kai.

[B]

Go back and read my posts in this thread, as I think I established why "Mark" would be the best option. Care to explain how "Hercule" or some variation of "Satan" that isn't actually "Satan" is accurate to the anime? Surely, you've got proof of this, as that's the argument you're using against "Mark."

NickToons won't use "Mr. Satan" because it has demonic connotations and they won't use "Mark" because hardly anyone knows him by that name. Most people either know him as "Hercule" or "Mr. Satan". For these reasons, I am fairly certain that "Hercule" will be use as the character's name in the broadcast dub of Dragon Ball Z Kai.

Congratulations, you stated the obvious, which everyone else has done. I was explaining why it makes more sense from a canon/fix-your-crap-Z-Kai standpoint to use the guy's real name. Also, you didn't really answer my bolded question as to why "Mark" is wrong.

[Piccolo Daimaoh]

Congratulations, you stated the obvious, which everyone else has done. I was explaining why it makes more sense from a canon/fix-your-crap-Z-Kai standpoint to use the guy's real name. Also, you didn't really answer my bolded question as to why "Mark" is wrong.

"Mark" is wrong to use in the dub of Dragon Ball Z Kai because it wasn't used in the original. Plain and simple.

[MR.Mark]

Well, my reasoning is in the other part of what you quoted. Now bolded for your convenience.

But basically, it would be almost the same thing as referring to Goku a Saiya-jin pre-Raditz. Sure, Mark has absolutely no narrative repurcussions like Goku's ancestry, but the fact remains that it does not belong. It simply has no place there, and it almost certainly hadn't entered the author's head. I consider it canon, but it's also a retcon.

Nope, sorry doesn't change a thing and is nowhere near in the same ball park as your Goku analogy.

"The fact remains that it doesn't belong", again WHY? Because some fans enjoy it and a very vocal minority don't, so there gonna be "rebels" and fight against the author himself? Grrr, how dare he add a name that effects the story in no significant way to MY manga!

The fact that it's a retcon is completely meaningless, as it's a simple name that contradicts nothing. It has a place in the story, Mr.Satan as a title name makes perfect sense and belongs just fine with the gag-character.

"Mark" is wrong to use in the dub of Dragon Ball Z Kai because it wasn't used in the original. Plain and simple.

Mark is relevant and belongs in Dragon Ball because TORIYAMA came up with the name. Funi's name wasn't used in the original and has zero relevance to Dragon Ball. So Unless Satan is allowed on the TV version, Mark would be a nice "censored" bonus for the die hard fans. I really don't understand how anyone could be against this and actually prefer HERCULE to be used.

[Gaffer Tape]

Well, my reasoning is in the other part of what you quoted. Now bolded for your convenience.

But basically, it would be almost the same thing as referring to Goku a Saiya-jin pre-Raditz. Sure, Mark has absolutely no narrative repurcussions like Goku's ancestry, but the fact remains that it does not belong. It simply has no place there, and it almost certainly hadn't entered the author's head. I consider it canon, but it's also a retcon.

Nope, sorry doesn't change a thing and is nowhere near in the same ball park as your Goku analogy.

"The fact remains that it doesn't belong", again WHY? Because some fans enjoy it and a very vocal minority don't, so there gonna be "rebels" and fight against the author himself? Grrr, how dare he add a name that effects the story in no significant way to MY manga!

The fact that it's a retcon is completely meaningless, as it's a simple name that contradicts nothing. It has a place in the story, Mr.Satan as a title name makes perfect sense and belongs just fine with the gag-character.

Wow. Thanks for once again being a dismissive jerk, holding your opinion above that of all others while treating those who disagree with you with absolutely no respect, and choosing to argue with insults, stretched-to-the-point-of-breaking logic ("rebels," seriously?), and rhetoric rather than actual debate. If you'd like to actually address my points rather than make fun of things I never actually said or implied, then I'll be right here ready to debate them.

[Kaboom]

Stop it now.

[batistabus]

Well, my reasoning is in the other part of what you quoted. Now bolded for your convenience.

But basically, it would be almost the same thing as referring to Goku a Saiya-jin pre-Raditz. Sure, Mark has absolutely no narrative repurcussions like Goku's ancestry, but the fact remains that it does not belong. It simply has no place there, and it almost certainly hadn't entered the author's head. I consider it canon, but it's also a retcon.

Nope, sorry doesn't change a thing and is nowhere near in the same ball park as your Goku analogy.

How about calling Goku Kakarot before Raditz showed up?

[MR.Mark]

Stop it now.

Yeah, just how was I being a dismissive jerk, for backing up my arguments? Some fans here ARE "rebelling" against the author with how they feel about Mark, what's wrong with what I said? I can't be a little "jokey" with how I phrase an other wise valid point?

How about calling Goku Kakarot before Raditz showed up?

Well, technically, his Father and what not were calling him that before Raditz showed up, we just never saw it.

So what your trying to say is , how bout we call Mr. Satan Mark, before Videl shows up...Gohan, how to fly..errrr. Yeah I'm still confused, how does Mark change anything at all again?

[batistabus]

How about calling Goku Kakarot before Raditz showed up?

Well, technically, his Father and what not were calling him that before Raditz showed up, we just never saw it.

So what your trying to say is is, how bout we call Mr. Satan Mark, before Videl shows up...Gohan, how to fly..errrr. Yeah I'm still confused, how does Mark change anything at all again?

The earthlings never knew about it.

If they made another episode where they reveal that Mr. Satan's name is actually Mark, then people could refer to him as that (although I'm not too sure he would be too pleased about it).

The thing is, Mark is his real name. Nobody knows it, except probably Videl (who I'm pretty sure refers to him as dad or something along those lines). Part of Mr. Satan's gag is that he constantly has people refer to him (that's all the media knows him by) with a name like that to see more manly or whatever when in reality he has a plain, ordinary name. That's why Hercule serves its purpose, because it would function as a title while his real name could still remain Mark.

[Gaffer Tape]

Stop it now.

Yeah, just how was I being a dismissive jerk, for backing up my arguments?

Sigh. Since you asked, I'm going to try to explain this one more time, more calmly, just so there isn't any confusion. You asked me a question. I gave you a long, detailed response to said question. You in turn barely addressed said response. Instead you simply created motives and assigned them to everyone who didn't agree with you, and then threw in some random emoticons for good measure. And I've noticed you do that with a lot of your debates. I don't mind if you don't agree with me (or anybody else). Far from it. Different opinions are what make things interesting. I just think things would go much more smoothly if you'd actually take the time to respectfully address people's opinions in debates that you start rather than just being snarky. Is that okay?

Since I can't really say anything else about my first Mr. Satan point (other than agree with batistabus saying it's like calling Goku Kakarrotto before Raditz shows up... without the narrative repurcussions as I've already stated), I'll reiterate my second point (that it's not really appropriate to call him that) in the hopes that maybe you'll address it. And I shall do so with a barely-creative analogy: Let's say you have a show with a bully character. He's tough and rude and everyone's scared of him. Let's call him Spike. Well, at some point in the series, a character finds out that Spike's real name is Leslie. Now the characters know his name, and now we as an audience know his name. But do you honestly think that this mundane name is going to be what everyone calls him from now on? It might be used as a one-off joke on occasion. It might be used perjoratively. But he'll still be called Spike, and woe to anyone who calls him Leslie. I feel the same way about Mark. It's a one-off joke. No one would actually call him that, though, and if someone did, I doubt he would appreciate it. And since you're suggesting adding it into scenes where it never was, therefore negating any chance of there being any kind of reaction to it... it just doesn't work, in my humble opinion.

[MR.Mark]

Part of Mr. Satan's gag is that he constantly has people refer to him (that's all the media knows him by) with a name like that to see more manly or whatever.

Really? I thought it was the Irony of the savior of the world being referred to as Satan. You seem to be implying the joke is that the name is manly, and he doesn't want people to find out about Mark. This is what I brought up, and to acknowledge that kinda goes against you not wanting Mark to be used all together, no?

That's why (the H-word) serves its purpose, because it would function as a title while his real name could still remain Mark.

See my point above ,(the H-word) is no better than using Mark since the Irony in Satan is lost already. You might as well call him Mark since that's his REAL name. People chanting Hercule rules, or them chanting Go Mark? Makes no difference, so I'd go with Toriyama's name for him. Unless of course you want to argue there's ironic humor behind Hercules-like named character befriending a DEMON and saving the world.

Is that okay?

As a matter of fact...it isin't.

[batistabus]

Really? I thought it was the Irony of the savior of the world being referred to as Satan. You seem to be implying the joke is that the name is manly, and he doesn't want people to find out about Mark. This is what I brought up, and to acknowledge that kinda goes against you not wanting Mark to be used all together, no?

Satan saving the world is the joke that was originally intended. If you acknowledge Mark as his real name, then that turns into a separate joke. The fact that his name is simply Mark is meant to be humorous.

See my point above ,(the H-word) is no better than using Mark since the Irony in Satan is lost. You might as well call him Mark since that's his REAL name.

If it's Hercule, then you at least have one of the jokes. If it's Mark, there's nothing.

[MR.Mark]

If it's (the H-word), then you at least have one of the jokes.

Unless of course you want to argue there's ironic humor behind Hercules-like named characters befriending a DEMON and saving the world.

[batistabus]

If it's (the H-word), then you at least have one of the jokes.

Unless of course you want to argue there's ironic humor behind Hercules-like named characters befriending a DEMON and saving the world.

Mr. Satan saves the world. He has everybody call him Mr. Satan, but his real name is Mark.

Jokes:
1. Satan saves the world is ironic.
2. Mark uses a title because he is a world famous fighter and that makes them seem "cooler".

Hercule is a title that makes him seen cooler.
Mark does neither.

[Rocketman]

See my point above ,(the H-word) is no better than using Mark since the Irony in Satan is lost.

Hercules was the world's strongest.

[MR.Mark]

2. Mark uses a title because he is a world famous fighter and that makes them seem "cooler".

Just so we're on the same page here, you ARE in favor of Mark being his real name? Because I was never arguing jokes to begin with. Just the validness of the Mark name itself. So by acknowledging the joke of the title you are in favor of Mark despite Toriyama coming up with it later right?

Hercules was the world's strongest.

Who made friends with magic demons and who's daughter was named after the Devil?

[batistabus]

2. Mark uses a title because he is a world famous fighter and that makes them seem "cooler".

Just so we're on the same page here, you ARE in favor of Mark being his real name? Because I was never arguing jokes to begin with. Just the validness of the Mark name itself. So by acknowledging the joke of the title you are in favor of Mark despite Toriyama coming up with it later right?

Yeah, I always recognized that was his name. Sorry for any confusion. I just think it just has no place in the Z Kai series.

[MR.Mark]

I just think it just has no place in the Z Kai series.

Hercules/Mark= no difference in relation to Satan. At the very least Mark is a pun on Akuma or whatever, even though it's lost in English. To say it has no place yet Hecurle does makes no sense to me.

[batistabus]

I just think it just has no place in the Z Kai series.

Hercules/Mark= no difference in relation to Satan. At the very least Mark is a pun on Akuma or whatever, even though it's lost in English.

I've explained why Hercule still serves as a joke and why Mark eliminates that.

Akuma does work as a pun, but has nothing to do with the character's personality. But I guess I would count that as a joke too.

Mark = 1/3 Jokes
Hercule as a stage name with his real name still being Mark = 2/3 Jokes

[linkdude20002001]

But you're lying to the audience... I'd rather not have any more people think his name is Hercule.