Trunks vs Cooler

[Senzu_Bean]

Again, Goku was never at a disadvantage. Watch the fight again.

He surely wasn't in advantage.

However, it also includes Goku's 3 million rating and its boosted levels, and Freeza's fully-powered levels as well.

What?! It lists Goku at over 180,000 and only lists Freeza's 3rd and 2nd suppression. It doesn't even lists Piccolo's battle power after merging with Nail.

[Kaboom]

He surely wasn't in advantage.

He took on all three of them at once and they never did anything more than grab him once, which lasted for all of two seconds. Three on one. If you don't see that as "clearly better" or "at an advantage," then I don't know what else to tell you.

What?! It lists Goku at over 180,000 and only lists Freeza's 3rd and 2nd suppression. It doesn't even list Piccolo's battle power after merging with Nail.
Are you trying to make me look like a fool or something?

No, you usually don't need help with that.

But geez, neither do I, apparently. Damnit. Goku's level of 3 million in the "master list" doesn't link to the same portion of the explanation as Gohan's does, where the V-Jump image. My bad, I got mixed up.

Fuck it, why do I even bother?

[Senzu_Bean]

If you don't see that as "clearly better" or "at an advantage," then I don't know what else to tell you.

Advantage cannot be the word to describe it when Goku not even once hit either of the three. He tried and failed. They tried and failed too.

My bad, I got mixed up.

No problem.

[LeprikanGT]

You have to take in account a spike of energy fighting against Final Form Cooler since he had just been in a near deat sitation and had just eaten a senzu bean. but Just an idea, but how about Trunks Vs Cooler? Since that is the two people in the title.

I don't think Cooler would have went so all out since we wasn't fight the Saiyan who killed his brother. [whether it be for revenge or pride of being string than Goku.]

So again, Trunks fully powered plus a not as pissed off Cooler = Trunks for the win.

[Kaboom]

If you don't see that as "clearly better" or "at an advantage," then I don't know what else to tell you.

Advantage cannot be the word to describe it when Goku not even once hit either of the three. He tried and failed. They tried and failed too.

My main point being that three people working couldn't do anything to hurt one person.

There's no issue with Goku being at his 3 million. Again, since the movie clearly establishes that Goku has already fought and defeated Freeza, becoming a Super Saiyan in the process... so he really can't be any weaker than that.

So given the official Battle Powers of the Armored Squad, the only logical conclusion is that Goku was hardly trying. He certainly didn't look like he was exerting much effort.

My bad, I got mixed up.

No problem.

Thank you for being gracious about it.

Besides, even if Gohan did get a Zenkai on top of his 200,000... A level of 250,000 or so could still feasibly be overtaken when ganged up on by three people approaching 200,000 themselves. Especially when the victim in question is Gohan.

But just an idea, but how about Trunks Vs Cooler? Since that is the two people in the title.

My earlier answer still stands: Coola is a small fry to anyone at Super Saiyan level. Inconsistencies regarding more minor characters aside, the movie at least made that very clear.

[Senzu_Bean]

Thank you for being gracious about it.

I even add a at the end of the post but for whatever reason it disappeared. Anyway, contrary to what some might believe by my often "bad" attitude I'm actually not that unpleasant. English not be my first language might make me sometimes write in a way that doesn't necessarily reflect my actually view.

Anyway, like I said early even though I don't agree with your view I agree it is plausible and it works within the movie.

[Perfect]

If Trunks was around Goku on Namek, he wouldn't have been so confident, or really able to kill Freeza with the ease that he did. Provided the power increase for Freeza was as much as you say it is.

Just to note, Freeza was suppressed at the time he fought Trunks. Gohan said, in response to Freeza's power, "This is nothing...he can get much stronger than this...". I doubt he saw Trunks as a real threat, especially since he still believed he could defeat a Super Saiyan who'd previously beaten him. I still put that down to typical villain arrogance, though. I think Freeza grew much stronger, but was still not quite as powerful as Namek SSj Goku (since Yardrat SSj Goku, who had probably only barely gotten stronger from on Namek since he was concentrating on controlling SSj and learning Shunkan-Ido, had killed him in Trunks' timeline).

You can match Freeza's arrogance perfectly with Trunks', it's just another deluded point that character's use to make themselves look good, at times this also blinds themselves into that belief.

[Piccolo Daimao]

If Trunks was around Goku on Namek, he wouldn't have been so confident, or really able to kill Freeza with the ease that he did. Provided the power increase for Freeza was as much as you say it is.

Just to note, Freeza was suppressed at the time he fought Trunks. Gohan said, in response to Freeza's power, "This is nothing...he can get much stronger than this...". I doubt he saw Trunks as a real threat, especially since he still believed he could defeat a Super Saiyan who'd previously beaten him. I still put that down to typical villain arrogance, though. I think Freeza grew much stronger, but was still not quite as powerful as Namek SSj Goku (since Yardrat SSj Goku, who had probably only barely gotten stronger from on Namek since he was concentrating on controlling SSj and learning Shunkan-Ido, had killed him in Trunks' timeline).

You can match Freeza's arrogance perfectly with Trunks', it's just another deluded point that character's use to make themselves look good, at times this also blinds themselves into that belief.

Yeah. For example, I don't believe Trunks is any stronger than SSj Goku on Namek (in fact, weaker) because, to me, it was implied that SSj Goku, who I think had barely increased in strength from on Namek, is more than a little bit stronger than SSj Trunks. Trunks didn't know the full power of Freeza, and was just going by the fact that he was a Super Saiyan, and as a SSj beat Freeza in his timeline, "logically" another one should be able to beat this one no problem. This was the same guy who believed that he was strong enough to defeat the Androids (and thought he had a good grasp on their power, when he said they were stronger in the main timeline, while they were probably holding back), yet got beat on his ass. It was lucky Trunks finished him off as quick as he did before Freeza realized how powerful he was.

[Senzu_Bean]

But what are the chances Freeza attacked Trunks without his full-power? I'm not seeing Freeza, after seen Trunks is ALSO a Super Saiyan, firing a piss-weak Ki blast at him.

[Kaboom]

But what are the chances Freeza attacked Trunks without his full-power? I'm not seeing Freeza, after seen Trunks is ALSO a Super Saiyan, firing a piss-weak Ki blast at him.

Because when Freeza uses 100%, he bulks up, and he never did so against Trunks. It's possible his new cybernetic parts somehow allowed him to access his full power (and more, supposedly) without it, but that's just a guess.

[Piccolo Daimao]

But what are the chances Freeza attacked Trunks without his full-power? I'm not seeing Freeza, after seen Trunks is ALSO a Super Saiyan, firing a piss-weak Ki blast at him.

Because when Freeza uses 100%, he bulks up, and he never did so against Trunks. It's possible his new cybernetic parts somehow allowed him to access his full power (and more, supposedly) without it, but that's just a guess.

Yeah, I don't think Freeza showed any sign of increasing in power. We don't know how much power Freeza put behind that ki blast, but Trunks dodged it anyway.

[Savage68]

Freeza can make huge jumps in power without it being noticeable (50% to 70%) But what was noticeable, however, was Freeza's fear of Trunks (since he was like, a Super Saiyan and all). I don't think he could bulk-up with a primarily mechanical body, either, so I'm willing to bet on everyone having been at full-power there. His ki blast seemed pretty darned powerful.

I mean, what would've been the point in Goku saying, "For you, who defeated Freeza so easily, to be so afraid of these androids..." if Freeza wasn't even using all of his power when Trunks killed him? The entire point of having Freeza dispatched of so quickly was to make the artificial humans seem unimaginably powerful by association.

[Piccolo Daimao]

Freeza can make huge jumps in power without it being noticeable (50% to 70%) But what was noticeable, however, was Freeza's fear of Trunks (since he was like, a Super Saiyan and all). I don't think he could bulk-up with a primarily mechanical body, either, so I'm willing to bet on everyone having been at full-power there. His ki blast seemed pretty darned powerful.

I mean, what would've been the point in Goku saying, "For you, who defeated Freeza so easily, to be so afraid of these androids..." if Freeza wasn't even using all of his power when Trunks killed him? The entire point of having Freeza dispatched of so quickly was to make the artificial humans seem unimaginably powerful by association.

That would make sense...If Freeza was only suppressed when Trunks beat him, and Trunks wouldn't have been able to beat him if he went to full power from the start, it does demean the impact of this new Super Saiyan defeating Freeza so easily and then being scared of androids that are supposedly even stronger than him.

But that would make SSj Goku something like 180 mil, a huge jump from 150 mil when I thought he wouldn't have improved that much since he was concentrating on taming SSj and learning Shunkan-Ido. I suppose it could work if you're willing to accept that Goku increased that much in power.

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

That's...not really that huge of a jump in power. Especially for someone's who's away for an entire yr.

It's also possible that Freeza's Mecha upgrade didn't make him as strong as he seemed to originally believe. I doubt Trunks would be urging Freeza and Cold to fight him all-out if he wasn't sure of beating them.

[Senzu_Bean]

That's...not really that huge of a jump in power. Especially for someone's who's away for an entire yr.

That is 30,000,000 more. Nobody ever gain that much by mere training. It is certainly huge gains for someone not stated to be stronger than before.

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

He doesn't need to be stated to be stronger than before. What he displays (Parrying a sword by a Super Saiyan with his finger) is enough to show he's much better than before.

[Kaboom]

What he displays (Parrying a sword by a Super Saiyan with his finger) is enough to show he's much better than before.

Again, don't forget that, by Goku's own observation, Trunks "wasn't giving his all." So the whole sword-blocking thing isn't as straight-up proof of anything as it might otherwise be.

[Senzu_Bean]

What he displays (Parrying a sword by a Super Saiyan with his finger) is enough to show he's much better than before.

It isn't necessarily since Future Gohan is suppose to be weaker than Goku and Trunks is about equal with his "master".

[Nazi Cola]

Future Gohan is weaker than 100% organic Freeza, and that's pretty damn weak.

[Senzu_Bean]

Future Gohan is weaker than 100% organic Freeza, and that's pretty damn weak.

It is?! I don't recall nothing stated about it.