.

[SparkyPantsMcGee]

The idea of Piccolo dying was a great idea, but how they went about doing it and when they did it was completely random and stupid. For one, aside from his death scene the only other time he appeared in GT was when he got his ass kicked by Gohan. They treated one of the strongest characters in the series like he was just some random/useless plot device. I can understand doing something like this to Yamcha but not Piccolo.

Second I find it B.S. that he couldn't give enough energy to transport Goku, a little boy, a dog and himself to the ship in space. Piccolo is supposed to be stronger than a Super Saiyan, not to mention the strongest non Saiyan in the show; if Goku is capable of transferring more than four people with his base form I'm sure Piccolo could afford to do the same thing at a higher power level. His death was poorly written and useless; What could have been one of the most emotional moments in the entire GT series ends up being one of the lamest.

[TonyTheTiger]

I can understand doing something like this to Yamcha

Now that's cold.

But, yeah, the bad thing about Piccolo in GT isn't really that he met the end he did. Like I said, I like core concept and irony of Piccolo ruling the underworld. The bad thing is that the reason it all happened is just so contrived. It's like Toei forgot Piccolo existed and then, when they realized they left him out, deliberately screwed him over to just be done with it. They forgot Yamcha, too, but didn't think he was even worth a second glance outside a cameo.

It just feels incongruent. In a series where deus ex machina is the norm and there's always some kind of plan, for Piccolo to just end up in that situation for nothing more than Toei's equivalent of "because I said so" just doesn't sit well. It's almost fourth wall breaking. You can tell that Toei was forcing closure rather than let it come about naturally.

[Fox666]

What makes Dragon Ball so awesome, and Dragon Ball not on par with it?

- Plot

Toriyama is a genius of plot creation. The Freeza saga is brillant.

Dragon Ball GT plot is just ordinary. A generic Power Rangers episode which a monster attack the town and they defeat him has a much more complex plot than the entire GT series.

And I am not talking about inconsistencies. I am talking about the quality of the writing itself. I woner, aren't there worth writers working for Toei who can do a story that is not a complete failure?

- Tension

Dragon Ball is a series that make your spine chill because of the danger of certain situations. This is bring especially because of the power certain beings. I.e. Piccolo Daimao terror, the saiyan arrival, Freeza and his henchmen in Namek, etc.

GT has nothing of that. You just don't feel emotion watching it. It's just uninteresting, you don't feel danger because it's previsible, you can't feel sad because the story doesn't make sense.

One of the most important aspects of Dragon Ball are the battles. And in GT the level of power just doesn't make sense. In the original series, it would be impossible for anyone besides Goku to fight Freeza while he was using a fraccion of his power. Despite the importance of such a thing in the manga, for some reasons GT simply completely ignores that.

- Comedy

Dragon Ball is one of the funniest mangas. I don't need to cite examples.

GT is not funny at all. I can imagine a 2 years old baby laughing while watching it, but that's it. Remember the Para Para Brothers? They are an attempt to be funny, but they aren't.

- Character design

While there are a few good designs (i.e. Baby Vegeta, Super 17) most of GT designs are terrible. As if it is not enough, some characters are so similar to characters of the manga (i.e. Dabura and Syn Shenron) that you get a very strange feeling watching it.

And what irritates the most is the 7 dragons design. This series is called DRAGON Ball, and the best thing that Toriyama does in life is drawings dragons and dinossaurs!! How the hell it ended with such bad drawing for the dragons?



I could keep posting fantastic dragons draw by Toriyama all the day...

Why is it that everybody seems to hate Dragon Ball GT? They also say things such as: "well it's not in the manga, so it's fake, fake, fake." It seems like a very good sequel to me?!

"Fake" is not the correct term, but "canon". Just because Toei own a copyright it doesn't make a story they created more valuable than a fanfic.

How much was Akira Toriyama really involved?
-I understand Akira Toriyama never made a manga version of it. Some people claim that he just wrote that Dbox quote because he had to. However, this doesn't make sense. Why would he write something fake, when he was involved in it, and even made some things of his own? Wasn't it stated that Toriyama had wished Son Goku could have been a kid ealier or something around the lines of? I know his opinion doesn't override others opinions, but it does show his interest right?

Toriyama had some involvement in character design and background story. But seriously, any fan should be able to easily pick when a story is told by Toriyama or not.

Do you think Akira Toriyama really liked Dragon Ball GT? Also, why do you think he never truly made a manga of it?
What did he truly mean by "DragonBall GT is a grand side-story of the original DragonBall, and it'll make me happy for us to watch and enjoy it together." Perhaps it is true that he was giving GT a secondary status to his original manga, hence his quote of "the original dragonball." But what does this mean?
It would be nice if VegettoEX or Herms answered this thread as well, seeming they've crossed a similar thread like this before I'm sure. When It comes to DBGT, how can the manga completely override it all like nothing. Some people don't like it, that's okay. But without Toriyama, DBGT would be a disaster period.

Authors have a very different point of view from fans. Mangakas loves manga adaptations. However, that doesn't mean GT is a good series.

Toriyama might like a drawing of Goku from a 5 years old kid, but that doesn't means it is a good design for the character.

[Michsi]

Piccolo's death in GT is one of my biggest problems with the series!
One of the most symbolic and recognizable characters of the DB franchise, one that played a major role in the previouse Sagas was cast aside in favor of ...what exactly?

It's like they realized he was too important to simply ignore for the rest of series but couldn't have him ruin the saiyan -focused theme that Toei set up for GT.

IMO, having him die was Toei doing away with a character that they didn't know how to handle.
And what's worse, they couln't even do that right:
- the final conversation between Gohan and Piccolo - just don't know where to start....
- Gohan breaking down and crying was very emotional and all, but by the end of the episode he pretty much gets over it. And nobody else seems to miss him either. I admit that Gohan and Goku were the ones he was closest to, but he had still been part of the " Z team" for over 20 years so I'd expect the others like Vegeta, Krillin , Trunks etc. to have some sort of reaction to his apparently permanent death. It felt unnatural how they just breezed through it and made me feel like there is no sense of closeness amoung these "friends".

[Rocketman]

~GOKU~ -focused theme that Toei set up for GT.

Fixed that for you.

[Michsi]

He was the one that won the fights, yes, but the other saiyans hat plenty of screen time from what I could tell. Pan, Trunks, Vegeta , Goten , Bra- they all appeared. It was saiyan focused.

[rereboy]

He was the one that won the fights, yes, but the other saiyans hat plenty of screen time from what I could tell. Pan, Trunks, Vegeta , Goten , Bra- they all appeared. It was saiyan focused.

The others showed up just to prove than they can't do anything except beg for Goku's help.

[Michsi]

Which isn't THAT much different from regular DB.

Sure Toei exagerated with Goku's Nr.1 - ness but you can' deny the saiyan families were treated better than the rest.

[rereboy]

Which isn't THAT much different from regular DB.

Sure Toei exagerated with Goku's Nr.1 - ness but you can' deny the saiyan families were treated better than the rest.

As it has already been said, the levels of Goku's phraise are on a totally different level in GT.

The humans weren't even used because having them get owned to make Goku look good wouldn't look impressive.

[Michsi]

Piccolo didn't get to fight in the Buu saga either but he still there and with a pretty important role. I wasn't just refering to fighting. I was talking about presence in the show.

He gets 4, 5 appearnaces at most. And it's not as tragic as Krillin, Tenshinhan and Yamcha.

[rereboy]

Piccolo didn't get to fight in the Buu saga either but he still there and with a pretty important role. I wasn't just refering to fighting. I was talking about presence in the show.

He gets 4, 5 appearnaces at most. And it's not as tragic as Krillin, Tenshinhan and Yamcha.

I agree. I was just providing the reasons for why that they didn't appear more.

[SparkyPantsMcGee]

Which isn't THAT much different from regular DB.

Sure Toei exagerated with Goku's Nr.1 - ness but you can' deny the saiyan families were treated better than the rest.

Well look at it this way.

Saiyan Saga: Goku is dead and while everyone waits for his arrival the rest of the "Z fighters" go up against Nappa. Sure, they are getting there ass kicked but they are at least holding there own. Goku comes to save the day because of his special training on King Kai's planet, even then he was an inch from death.

Freeza saga: Again Goku is MIA and Vegeta, Gohan and Krillin (and later) Piccolo have to work together to fight off Freeza and his minions. They do a pretty good job of it and even push Freeza to his final form. It's only then that they start to lose hope and Goku has to step in.

Cell saga: Goku fights once and gives up! During the entire Cell saga everyone but Goku has there shinning moment. In fact, Gohan is the one that saves the planet.

Buu Saga: Sure Goku is the one who saves the day but it was with his spirit bomb and the strength of every person on planet Earth.

GT: sure other people fight and show up but they are irrelevant and have absolutely no effect on the enemy. For example: Vegeta is the closest thing to Goku's equal in the DBU; however, when Vegeta goes to fight Super 17 he(along with everyone else) does absolutely no damage. It's as if Mr. Satan is fighting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAo9w-C5i60

Yet Goku has no problem landing an effective punch. It's as if everyone except for Goku forgot to fight.

[Fox666]

Goku didn't appear for most of Saiyan, Freeza and Cell saga didn't him?

In GT it's all Goku - Goku - Goku - Goku - Veg... I mean Goku - Goku

[Ahiru77]

It's all Goku, but it's not like its the right Goku. Little Goku or messed up monkey Goku. So even the Goku fans can have something to complain about.


But the Black star adventure was great, harmless fun....fun....FUN.

[Michsi]

It's all Goku, but it's not like its the right Goku. Little Goku or messed up monkey Goku. So even the Goku fans can have something to complain about.

I got the same feeling. I admit I haven't seen much of it but from what I did see I also had the impression like they didn'r get Goku right either.

For example :
When Piccolo tells Goku that he can get him out of Hell by linking his mind with Dende's and creating a portal or whateverdon'treallyremember Goku goes all shifty eyes and asks Piccolo if he could really do that, as if he was doubting him.

That felt extremely out of character for me. Since when does he doubt his friends. Especially one that sacrificed everything in order to help him get him out. Not to mention that he never really stopped having that childish gulable side. If Mister Satan came up to him and told him that he'd been holding back his real power all this time and was only pretending to be weak, Goku would probably believe him (well not really but you get the idea)

[Hellspawn28]

I think the main issue with GT was all of the changes that they did. They pretty much retcon the whole Saiyans origin and retcon the conpect of dead people can't have their bodies destoryed in the after life.

[Cipher]

I think the main issue with GT was all of the changes that they did. They pretty much retcon the whole Saiyans origin and retcon the conpect of dead people can't have their bodies destoryed in the after life.

What retcon? Kaiou introduces the entire Tsufuruian concept in the Saiyan arc of Dragon Ball Z.

[Hellspawn28]

But I remember King Kai's Saiyan origin in the DBZ anime was a lot different and GT is a direct sequel to the DBZ anime.

[Chibi Mystic Gohan]

Yeah, and there's another slightly different origin story in Plan to Eradicate the Super Saiyans.

[Cipher]

What exactly is different about all of them? As far as I can remember, they're all the same.