DBZ Budokai HD Collection: Official On-Going Thread

[DonieZ]

I don't mean to be rude, but have you people ever played Budokai Tenkaichi 1, 2 and 3? They're not the same.

I'm saying this in the nicest way possible. I'm not trying to be a jackass, but honestly I see no difference in the core aspect of BT 1 2 and 3. It's just my analogy perhaps you're seeing something I'm not. Anyways to each to his own

Like I said in the first paragraph of my post, there are differences between BT2 and BT3 (and BT1, but that's just obvious), just like there are differences between RB and RB2. People say BT3's gameplay was better than BT2's, but really BT2 made a much larger step-up than BT3 did from its predecessor, and what BT3 did do just made the combat a lot more cheap and broken.

'To each his own' is irrelevant here, since what the game's actually 'are' are not opinion but 'fact'. There are differences between the games; whether they are huge differences or not is another aspect, however if you were arguing with people who knew and cared what they were talking about then they'd have a lot over you.

What you're trying to say however is that the formula or style is the same, and it's true. It's been true in fact from Spike for the past 6 or so years, excluding Ultimate trash. I really don't like all this HD collection business personally, I think Tenkaichi fanboys should move on and allow the franchise to evolve. I mean, when was the last time we had something which was new, and which was actually good?

(Damn, I was meant to post this before, but I didn't realise it didn't go through since it informed me of that thing it does when another pos has already been posted..)

[VegettoEX]

Like I said in the first paragraph of my post, there are differences between BT2 and BT3 (and BT1, but that's just obvious), just like there are differences between RB and RB2. People say BT3's gameplay was better than BT2's, but really BT2 made a much larger step-up than BT3 did from its predecessor, and what BT3 did do just made the combat a lot more cheap and broken.

I'm still looking for a concise explanation of what those differences are. So far, I've been able to toss out "the lock-on system changed from NEO to METEOR", got a confirmation... and... well, that's been it (other than a link to a video that seemed very poorly narrated and I didn't give more than five seconds).

I mean, when was the last time we had something which was new, and which was actually good?

February 2011.

[DonieZ]

I'm still looking for a concise explanation of what those differences are. So far, I've been able to toss out "the lock-on system changed from NEO to METEOR", got a confirmation... and... well, that's been it (other than a link to a video that seemed very poorly narrated and I didn't give more than five seconds).

Hmm, tbh I'm not actually too sure, it's been years since I've owned any of the past-gen DB games, and at least a year or two since I've played BT2. There are definitely some distinct differences though, since I recall people explaning so on some other forum. I believe I remember feeling the differences too when playing the two, I'm not sure, but I think in BT2 you couldn't really break out of combos as easily as you could in BT3. The Z counters and all that became very broken in BT3, probably due to not consuming enough ki, thus becoming spammable. Sorry though, since that's all I can say. Is there anyone that's actually played the game recently enough to remember the differences in enough detail?

I mean, when was the last time we had something which was new, and which was actually good?

February 2011.

For the handhelds Allow me to rephrase: When was the last time we had something which was new, for the home consoles, and was actually good or even great? Tbh, even BL was just an adaptation of Budokai.

[SparkyPantsMcGee]

Oh man, those pre-rendered CG openings are going to look awful.

Not if they do it right.

You can't do them right. Not unless they do everything from the ground up again. That's the problem with pre-rendered cut scenes, they are pre-rendered. What's done is done and you can't change anything from the source file unless you go back and re-render everything. Perfect example of this is what happened when they did the God of War games for the PS3. The in game stuff looked great but once they cut to the pre-rendered videos, they looked fuzzy and aged. They fixed this problem when they went to do the PSP collection. I don't think Namco-Bandai has the time or wants to spend the money on re-doing the opening videos.

[BlazingFiddlesticks]

The jump from Tenkaichi/Sparking to Tenkaichi 2/NEO was actually huge; being able to actually combo beyond 5 hits, bring combo finishers to continue combos or force the enemy away from you in a manner that let you set up or chase them, more predictable and useful teleports, more smash attacks... the problem is that Spike's game aren't deep to start with, so it's entirely possible to go into them not noticing the little things because you still have one melee button.

I know Vegetto says repeatedly in reviews that he looks at the giant list of options in Spike games and wonders who bothers with all of these things when it comes down to mashing the melee button or spamming ki attacks. Well, I know I do; I love to teleport behind people to start back attacks or away from them so I can nail them with an energy blast while they're stuck punching air or in the finishing animation of their own energy attack, I know I use steps-ins that end with heavy blows and lift strike into Blast 2 attacks, I know I set up with Blast 1s when they're actually good.

Since I don't know what your cut-off point with this stuff is, you could say "I do all those things, and it's not deep, in fact it gets almost predictable after a while." That's true, not arguing Spike games are deep, I'm arguing that the minutia has a lot of value. Of course, most of that minutia comes in with the transition from T1 to T2; everything after seems to be two or three game-specific mechanics or tweaks pasted on the T2's basic structure.

[SparkyPantsMcGee]

The jump from Sparking to Neo was a much needed one, in retrospect I don't even know how I put up with the first Sparking game. I guess its differences at the time made it fun for me. Neo fixed a lot of problems Sparking had: In game transformations; more characters; a better story; improved combat(longer combo chains like you said) and so forth. Meteor did the same thing, but there wasn't that much more that needed to be fixed. They took out the manual lock on thing, added more characters and tweaked attacks so that they felt more powerful; as well as making sure that they looked more like the shows counterpart. Which really leads to the question, why would you need the first two games? There is no real reason to play Sparking over Neo or to have Neo over Meteor. At their core, all three games are the same with just minor improvements as each installment goes along. So why not just have the best one of the bunch?

You take the best of that game, mix it with the best Budokai game and hell throw Super DBZ in there for fun( ) and bam, you got yourself a fine collection for everyone.

[BlazingFiddlesticks]

Meteor did the same thing, but there wasn't that much more that needed to be fixed. They took out the manual lock on thing, added more characters and tweaked attacks so that they felt more powerful; as well as making sure that they looked more like the shows counterpart.

Oh, Meteor has some beautiful attack animations. Probably that and replays are the big reason I regret not picking it up when I could.

[Jackal puFF]

Will there be anything new added besides the HD?

[Rukura]

Will there be anything new added besides the HD?

Well...uhm...there's a Kinect game coming out... We don't even really know that they will do the HD collections, though. Everything right now is just speculation, really.

Here's what would could be cool: For the possible Budokai and/or IW port to include the DB Heroes stuff. That's easy because those models already exist. Namco Bandai likes easy. Done.

The cherry on top would be new what-if storys in Sparking Meteor *COUGH*episode of Bardock*COUGH* (ok, not as easy, but still.)

[mysticboy]

Oh man, those pre-rendered CG openings are going to look awful.

Not if they do it right.

You can't do them right. Not unless they do everything from the ground up again. That's the problem with pre-rendered cut scenes, they are pre-rendered. What's done is done and you can't change anything from the source file unless you go back and re-render everything. Perfect example of this is what happened when they did the God of War games for the PS3. The in game stuff looked great but once they cut to the pre-rendered videos, they looked fuzzy and aged. They fixed this problem when they went to do the PSP collection. I don't think Namco-Bandai has the time or wants to spend the money on re-doing the opening videos.

Exactly. I was basically telling Super Saiyan Prime that if they were to do it correctly (re-rendering the openings), the intros won't look so bad.

[Super Sayian Prime]

You guys assume that Namco Bandai and Spike still have the source files for those opening animations and are willing to spend the time and money re-rendering them. I expect it to be upscaled, and look completely gross.

[SparkyPantsMcGee]

You guys assume that Namco Bandai and Spike still have the source files for those opening animations and are willing to spend the time and money re-rendering them. I expect it to be upscaled, and look completely gross.

I expect the same. More so because I don't see Namco-Bandai wanting to put money into re-rendering the scenes rather then not having the source files. These games don't exactly print money and it seems like Namco-Bandai is investing less and less in order to continue making a profit. An HD port seems right up their alley. If this rumor becomes a reality they aren't going to throw money at this project to re-do everything; the game is already done. They are going to upscale the game; maybe add one or two new features; and cash in on previous success while hoping to gain new fans who missed out the first time. If all goes well, they get a few extra bucks and maybe the drive to keep the ball rolling. Don't expect them to do re-model everything from the ground up, that usually takes the willingness and drive from an outside fanbase.
Also, I would hope they have the source files if they plan to do this.

[mysticboy]

I'm pretty sure they have the codes for these games. As much as people get on Spike for reusing animations and whatnot, it shouldn't be hard to believe they still have them.

[dbboxkaifan]

You guys assume that Namco Bandai and Spike still have the source files for those opening animations and are willing to spend the time and money re-rendering them. I expect it to be upscaled, and look completely gross.

Budokai Tenkaichi 3 the so-called "Best Dragon Ball Z" so Namdai wouldn't want to take any chances at flopping this time around, the fans of BT3 want the game pretty badly but they probably might not minded if the graphics were upscaled than remastered in HD.

On YouTube where it's only I see people wanting Budokai Tenkaichi 3 the comments are typically: "Bring Budokai Tenkaichi 3 to Xbox 360 and PS3" it doesn't mention remaster the graphics in HD, just the game itself.

Story: BT3 (because it includes also DB + DBGT + Specials + Films)
Characters: BT3
Music: BT2 (would love me some remastered BT2 music since the BT2 in RB2 wasn't)
Gameplay: BT3 (It's fast, works well and not bad, pretty good)

"HD Collection" is suppose to be in actual HD not upscaled to an HD resolution.

[Super Sayian Prime]

I'm pretty sure they have the codes for these games. As much as people get on Spike for reusing animations and whatnot, it shouldn't be hard to believe they still have them.

The CG cutscenes =/ the game's code. Do we even know if Spike animated those?

[mysticboy]

I'm pretty sure they have the codes for these games. As much as people get on Spike for reusing animations and whatnot, it shouldn't be hard to believe they still have them.

The CG cutscenes =/ the game's code. Do we even know if Spike animated those?

Oh, okay. You were specifically speaking on the intros.

I'd imagine they did animate the intros, but idk.

[Super Sayian Prime]

I'd actually be really surprised if they kept the sources for the intros.* If they do it's probably on some ancient computer collecting dust in storage.

* It's a different era, but a full time animation house like Mainframe didn't even keep their source footage so all of their shows will forever be trapped in the original resolutions they rendered them in.

[mysticboy]

I personally wouldn't mind it if they keep the intros at 4:3 instead of stretching them to 16:9 distorting the image. Hell, they did that with Devil May Cry HD.

[SparkyPantsMcGee]

"HD Collection" is suppose to be in actual HD not upscaled to an HD resolution.

Well, your in for BIG surprise.

[Daimo-Rukiri]

I really hope it's not just Tenkaichi 1-3, but who are we kidding?..
I'd much rather have Budokai 1, BudoKai3, Tekaichi 3, and Super Dragon Ball Z for the HD collections.

If they have the source files they could easily re-rending the graphics very easily with a modern game engine (rendering in Unreal Engine 3 and CryEngine 3 is a cake walk, coding shaders is fun^^)
I don't expect them to have the original Animation source as I'm sure that was scrapped once it was shipped to the developer, they'll probably do selective cropping so the logo doesn't look out of place during the animated intros.

The pre-rendered Video files may be a problem though, wouldn't take much to redo them with modern engines. Just a single days salary would get the job done for 1 rendering as it does take time especially if the original source file was huge in file size.

I would much rather that we saw a Budokai HD collections with Sagas and Super DBZ tacked on than spikes misfortunes.