How do you explain plot holes within Dragon Ball?

[LiamKav]

They don't work in the grand scheme of "time travel can't exist because someone would have used it to travel back in time, therefore stopping anyone from developing time travel by themselves, therefore no one could come back in time etc... but BttF is consistent to itself. If you change the past, it doesn't affect the time traveller unless he is actually removed from time, blah blah blah.

In BTTF2, Biff goes to the past to make himself rich, but goes back to the future in which he hasn't made himself rich.

We don't know that. For all we know the future of 2015 where Biff had made himself rich looked the same as the one where he hadn't. (The writers postulate that in the alternative timeline, Biff was shot by Lorraine in the 90s, and he's fading out of existence when he gets back to 2015 because he doesn't exist. We just cut away before that happens. Once Biff gets back, Marty and Doc are out on a street, so we might not notice any time line changes.)

[Rostir]

My view is that you can explain plotholes all you want to but in the end none of it has any feasibility unless you are Akira Toriyama.

Well I like to look at it this way
"when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth" - Sherlock Holmes

I don't think this applies to unexplained events in a manga series.

[Piccolo Daimao]

And he just happened to...forget? Writing off a character's intelligence or memory like this to explain what is blatantly a plothole is the same problem I have with people simply saying that Kaioushin, a fucking god, is stupid and/or can't sense ki properly due to Toriyama's piss-poor writing throughout the arc (and, perhaps, especially in that portion). Why don't they say that Gohan is stupid as well because he didn't become SS2 against Dabra and Fat Boo?

I think most people who say things like that do actually know that the out-of-universe answer is, "Toriyama goofed." Sometimes we just like to offer in-universe alternatives.

By the way, I'm not exactly writing off Trunks' intelligence to fix apparent inconsistencies like the ones you mentioned. The part I was thinking about was when Trunks himself suggests that, now that he knows where Gero's lab is, he could go further back in time and stop the androids before they wake up. It takes Gohan questioning what would happen their androids for Trunks to go, "...OH YEAH! The future of that timeline would be saved, but this one would remain the same...!" So Trunks apparently forgetting how things work is right there in the story.

Oh, of course. I guess I myself forgot about that scene.

The grandfather paradox in Back to the Future makes no sense

I can kind of make sense out of it. Changes in the timeline in Back to the Future seem to move at a certain pace, like ripples moving through a pond. It takes time for the changes to make their way to the future, so a time traveller from the future won't be affected right away. If the ripples do manage to "catch up" with them, though, then a universe breaking paradox may occur. We don't really know what would happen since they managed to keep them from happening!

Hmm, that makes sort of sense, but what about Marty literally phasing out of existence when it looks like his parents won't get back together at the school dance? But I'm not sure anyone seemed to notice anything out of the ordinary, other than his guitar-playing fucking up.

But if he did completely phase out for good, what would happen? Would there be some kind of history shift where his parents suddenly didn't know about Marty (or "Calvin") then? Or maybe, like you said, we don't really know what would happen, since they managed to keep them from happening. Apart from in the second film, which did seem to create an alternate timeline.

[Goten Forever]

A plothole is a plothole. You can't explain something like that away. If you want to take that line of thinking, then literally anything in the world that doesn't make sense you can twist into making sense, no matter how retarded it may be. So is it still a plothole in your eyes, even if your explanation isn't plausible?

Look, I just wouldn't bother. Nothing is perfect, and almost every work of fiction has its flaws.

This.

OP, they are plotholes because there IS no logical explanation We would have figured one out by now.

[Rostir]

I could make up a random reason for a plothole's existence that contains a modicum of simple logic and call it a proper explanation for said plothole just like anyone else can.

[Bussani]

Hmm, that makes sort of sense, but what about Marty literally phasing out of existence when it looks like his parents won't get back together at the school dance? But I'm not sure anyone seemed to notice anything out of the ordinary, other than his guitar-playing fucking up.

The changes in the timeline had caught up with, I'd assume, his birth (which is why his older brother and sister were affected first--they were born before him, so the ripples reached those events before his). For whatever reason (plot!) the ripples seem to move faster when restoring something than they do when erasing it. Maybe it has to do with how "big" the cause is, like how throwing a small rock into a pond would cause smaller ripples than a big one. Or it could be to do with probability; whether his parents got together was still quite a variable at that stage, so the slow history changing could be because the universe can't quite make up its mind yet. Those are just ideas, though.

But if he did completely phase out for good, what would happen? Would there be some kind of history shift where his parents suddenly didn't know about Marty (or "Calvin") then? Or maybe, like you said, we don't really know what would happen, since they managed to keep them from happening. Apart from in the second film, which did seem to create an alternate timeline.

When Doc described time paradoxes (I think in the second movie) he said one might unravel the space-time continuum and destroy the entire universe; he then goes on to admit this is a worst case scenario and that the destruction might be limited to just their own galaxy. In other words, universe breaking paradoxes might actually...well...break the universe! But that's just Doc theorizing, I guess. I did wonder if we might just be left with a 1959 where "Calvin" appears, stops two people from getting together, and then vanishes, which would be quite confusing, but would be a unique way of a universe avoiding paradoxes. The fact that this "Calvin" appears from a future that no longer exists would be pretty weird, of course, but if word of god said time travel worked that way in their story, I'd buy it. I do kind of like the idea that the Back to the Future universe would just collapse in on itself from such a small thing, though.

In the second film, they do draw it on that blackboard like it's a second, parallel timeline, but I always got the impression that was just for the sake of visualizing what had happened. But if the original timeline had been replaced, how did Marty and Doc still exist? Were the changes in history still trying to catch up with them? Or perhaps they somehow dodged the changes by travelling to the past at the right moment. Again, I'm just making guesses.

[Saiga]

I always thought that Trunks hadn't forgot, he was just wrong to begin with. It seemed to me that he didn't actually know how time travel worked at first, until he seriously thought about it.

[Bussani]

I always thought that Trunks hadn't forgot, he was just wrong to begin with. It seemed to me that he didn't actually know how time travel worked at first, until he seriously thought about it.

Trunks contradicts this interpretation a second later, I'm afraid. Yamcha asks him why he came back in time if he knew he couldn't alter his own future, and Trunks explains about wanting to study the androids in the past, maybe bring Goku back with him to help save his time, and also that Bulma just wanted there to be at least one future that didn't suck.

[LiamKav]

In the second film, they do draw it on that blackboard like it's a second, parallel timeline, but I always got the impression that was just for the sake of visualizing what had happened. But if the original timeline had been replaced, how did Marty and Doc still exist? Were the changes in history still trying to catch up with them? Or perhaps they somehow dodged the changes by travelling to the past at the right moment. Again, I'm just making guesses.

Timeline changes in BttF don't seem to affect memory. Remember, an alternative 1985 WAS created at the end of the first movie (Marty's dad no longer a pushover, Marty has a sweet car etc). It was just a "better" one, so everyone let it be. Marty didn't have his memory replaced. Neither did Doc. The same thing happens in BttF 2. A new timeline is created, but Marty and Doc keep their original memories. It seems the only way time travellers are affected by changes in the timeline is if they are actually killed by those changes. The Marty and Doc native to the alternative 1985 in Bttf2 are still alive, therefore our Marty and Doc are still alive. Whereas old Biff starts groaning in pain when he gets back to 2015, same as Marty did in 1955, and that was because he had changed the timeline so that he no longer existed (if we allow the producer argument that Biff got shot in 1995).

This is a lot of talk about BttF.

[Nex Carnifex]

I just don't understand how Cell could have came back in time from the future if he was destroyed in the present, I thought Trunks already caused the timeline to diverge unless Cell had come back before he arrived...

[Bussani]

Timeline changes in BttF don't seem to affect memory. Remember, an alternative 1985 WAS created at the end of the first movie (Marty's dad no longer a pushover, Marty has a sweet car etc). It was just a "better" one, so everyone let it be. Marty didn't have his memory replaced. Neither did Doc.

Well, Doc did, right? Since he remembered meeting Marty in 1955 and got that letter from him back then. But 1985 Doc wasn't a time traveller in that scenario, so maybe you're right.

I just don't understand how Cell could have came back in time from the future if he was destroyed in the present

He came from a different future. The Cell they killed in the present would have grown up to be a different Cell, just as the Trunks in the main timeline and Future Trunks are different Trunkses.

I thought Trunks already caused the timeline to diverge unless Cell had come back before he arrived...

Cell had already been underground for a year when Trunks arrived in the main timeline, so Cell definitely arrived before he did.

[Nex Carnifex]

Timeline changes in BttF don't seem to affect memory. Remember, an alternative 1985 WAS created at the end of the first movie (Marty's dad no longer a pushover, Marty has a sweet car etc). It was just a "better" one, so everyone let it be. Marty didn't have his memory replaced. Neither did Doc.

Well, Doc did, right? Since he remembered meeting Marty in 1955 and got that letter from him back then. But 1985 Doc wasn't a time traveller in that scenario, so maybe you're right.

I just don't understand how Cell could have came back in time from the future if he was destroyed in the present

He came from a different future. The Cell they killed in the present would have grown up to be a different Cell, just as the Trunks in the main timeline and Future Trunks are different Trunkses.

I thought Trunks already caused the timeline to diverge unless Cell had come back before he arrived...

Nevermind I looked it up, the original timeline plays out so that Trunks future is fucked up because of the Androids, so he goes back in time. He kills Frieza and King Cold and ends up killing the Androids by finding out how to deactivate them, this causes Cell later on to kill Trunks and steal his time machine because he cannot absorb the Androids in this timeline. Cell returns before Trunks comes back according to this new timeline Trunks created, creating the main timeline where everything plays out correctly and Trunks ends up returning to his original timeline to kill the Androids and then Cell after he arises, now it makes perfect sense!

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Cell had already been underground for a year when Trunks arrived in the main timeline, so Cell definitely arrived before he did.

Wait... doesn't this explain why Cell said that he could take Trunks' cells too, but didn't need to?

[Bussani]

Nevermind I looked it up, the original timeline plays out so that Trunks future is fucked up because of the Androids, so he goes back in time. He kills Freeza and King Cold and ends up killing the Androids by finding out how to deactivate them, this causes Cell later on to kill Trunks and steal his time machine because he cannot absorb the Androids in this timeline. Cell returns before Trunks comes back according to this new timeline Trunks created, creating the main timeline where everything plays out correctly and Trunks ends up returning to his original timeline to kill the Androids and then Cell after he arises, now it makes perfect sense!

Glad you think so. It sounds like you understand it as well as anyone else ever has.

Wait... doesn't this explain why Cell said that he could take Trunks' cells too, but didn't need to?

Probably not. Cell was talking about how he was made from the various cells collected by those little robots. Even if they'd collected Trunks' cells in the main timeline, they'd only be used to create the main timeline Cell (the one Kuririn and Trunks find in the lab and destroy), not the Cell we know.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Probably not. Cell was talking about how he was made from the various cells collected by those little robots. Even if they'd collected Trunks' cells in the main timeline, they'd only be used to create the main timeline Cell (the one Kuririn and Trunks find in the lab and destroy), not the Cell we know.

IIRC, Cell said to Piccolo that the small-like-a-fly robot could get his cells and add them to him.

[Piccolo Daimao]

time travel business

Right, I understand now. Intriguing.

[Bussani]

IIRC, Cell said to Piccolo that the small-like-a-fly robot could get his cells and add them to him.

He meant they'd be added to the Cell being made in that timeline. That said, he does refer to the Cell being made as the lab like it's him, saying something like: "It's pointless to destroy the cell collector now. The project has already begone--although I won't be completed for another 20 or so years."

Maybe Cell also doesn't understand how time travel works.

[Fox666]

Well, Trunks also refered to his alternate-timeline clone in the first person.

[Piccolo Daimao]

IIRC, Cell said to Piccolo that the small-like-a-fly robot could get his cells and add them to him.

He meant they'd be added to the Cell being made in that timeline. That said, he does refer to the Cell being made as the lab like it's him, saying something like: "It's pointless to destroy the cell collector now. The project has already begone--although I won't be completed for another 20 or so years."

Maybe Cell also doesn't understand how time travel works.

No, he's not that dumb. I think he meant the other Cell being made in that timeline. He's merely referring to himself in the first person because, well, they are the same being, just in different timelines.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

No, he's not that dumb.

Or was he? He met Piccolo, Piccolo said that he is not Piccolo (because he had merged with Kami), and Cell believed him and had no idea he was a Namekian!