Full Power Super Saiyan Multiplier?

[TheDevilsCorpse]

He was also really angry when Freeza hit the side of his face with a freakin Kienzon and turned down his mercy.

And Gohan was freaking pissed when he learned that his dad just died in vain...

[TheMightyOzaru]

He was also really angry when Freeza hit the side of his face with a freakin Kienzon and turned down his mercy.

And Gohan was freaking pissed when he learned that his dad just died in vain...

He was more sad than angry. He was angry when Cell returned.

[TheDevilsCorpse]

He was more sad than angry. He was angry when Cell returned.

Because it meant his dad just died in vain...

[TheMightyOzaru]

He was more sad than angry. He was angry when Cell returned.

Because it meant his dad just died in vain...

Thats my point. Gohan still got an anger boost when Cell returned.

[Fox666]

As far the manga goes, I think it's obvious that once you transformed in Super Saiyan for the first time, you know how to do it again intuitively.

And was Gohan really angry when Cell returned? He was all cocky challanging Cell with a smile on his face.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Last I checked, Goku stated he couldnt control it at first. Correct me if I'm wrong. Mmm... Debatable, Gohan still looks pretty pissed.

[dbzfan7]

50x. It's just the same as SSJ. Only difference is that SSJ can now be used to it's maximum flexibility. The drawbacks are gone or minimal. I don't think the multiplier would change.

[Bussani]

Goku does tell Trunks that he had to practice to be able to transform into a Super Saiyan at will. He did it against Freeza, of course, so maybe he just meant that he couldn't do it reliably? Like...I can sometimes get a basketball in a hoop, but I'd have to practice a lot to be able to do it at will.

[Kaboom]

The way I figured it was that Goku was able to re-transform easily against Freeza because he was still emotional and pumped up from battle. Same with Gohan re-transforming when the revived Cell showed up. But it would take effort and practice to be able to do something like that out of the blue. To pull off a "cold start," so to speak.

[TheDevilsCorpse]

Like Kaboom, I always just assumed that since rage was the initial trigger, the madder they are, the easier time they have transforming back into the form before they master the actual transformation process. But, even after they are able to transform at will, if they are enraged enough, the transformation will be triggered even if they are trying to restrain themselves (Gohan watching Spopovich curbstomp Videl).

[Saiga]

Doesn't really explain Gohan transforming into Super Saiyan 2 at the Tenkaichi Budokai after he's calmed down.

[Kaboom]

Doesn't really explain Gohan transforming into Super Saiyan 2 at the Tenkaichi Budokai after he's calmed down.

In that case, it seems he expended considerable time and effort to transform. The audience was even getting impatient and jeering at him while he was standing there gathering/focusing his ki. It wasn't just an instant "*BAMF*, transformed" kind of thing like Vegeta and Goku pulled off for their fight later.

[Saiga]

Doesn't really explain Gohan transforming into Super Saiyan 2 at the Tenkaichi Budokai after he's calmed down.

In that case, it seems he expended considerable time and effort to transform. The audience was even getting impatient and jeering at him while he was standing there gathering/focusing his ki. It wasn't just an instant "*BAMF*, transformed" kind of thing like Vegeta and Goku pulled off for their fight later.

Weren't the audience's reactions anime only as they dragged out the scene?

[TheDevilsCorpse]

Weren't the audience's reactions anime only as they dragged out the scene?

No, VIZ has them yelling "Boo!", "Get going!", "Um...the match has started.", "What's wrong?", "Hurry up!", C'mon fools!", "How long are you gonna stand there?!" and "Quit waistin' our time!!" in a couple panels across the 6 pages it take him to rev up. lol

[freezamite]

50x. It's just the same as SSJ. Only difference is that SSJ can now be used to it's maximum flexibility. The drawbacks are gone or minimal. I don't think the multiplier would change.

I don't think so. Firstly, the SSJ form is not a fixed multiplier like for example Kaioh Ken x10 in the sense that it doesn't matter how much you train your Kaioh Ken technique, because Kaioh Ken x10 will always be a x10 multiplier (and the most you can achieve is to reduce the amount of harm the technique inflicts to you).
In fact, controlling SSJ is not different from controlling the normal state. The difference relies on the fact that the SSJ adds a huge amount of stress to your body, but if you remember the fight against Nappa, a normal person that gets stressed has far less energy in combat that another one with the same potential but calmed.

Furthermore, I wouldn't say the SSJ is an overall multiplier at all, because if it was then Vegeta would be far stronger than Goku, and that's not the case.
In Goku's case, untrained SSJ multiplies it's strength by 10 and I would say that Full Power SSJ is about a 40x multiplier, but this can only be applied to Goku.

Since the SSJ form depends on more factors than just the transformations and in the manga it's never specified the way it works (we only can speculate) I would say it was a bit like the zenkay power but with a little more information. We know what effects it has, but we don't know if there is a fixed rule behind it (I personally say no).

[DBZGTKOSDH]

the SSJ form is not a fixed multiplier like for example Kaioh Ken x10

Akira Toriyama disagrees with you.

[freezamite]

the SSJ form is not a fixed multiplier like for example Kaioh Ken x10

Akira Toriyama disagrees with you.

No, he doesn't. It's really clear in the manga that the SSJ improves when controlling the energy and stress of the body. If the SSJ can improve, then it's not a fixed multiplier, it's the complete opposite!!

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Toriyama confirms in this interview that the Super Saiyan gives a x50 increase.

[Kaboom]

It's really clear in the manga that the SSJ improves when controlling the energy and stress of the body. If the SSJ can improve, then it's not a fixed multiplier, it's the complete opposite!!

Not as "clear" as you think. Never is anyone said to become stronger JUST by improving their use of Super Saiyan. We see Gohan doing that, but then we also see them training a lot. If their overall power increased from their training, then both their base forms and Super Saiyan would increase roughly proportionately to each other.

Before Training
Goku: 10
Super Saiyan: 500

After Training
Goku: 50
Super Saiyan: 2500

[yakonojo]

How about this theory : SSJ Base is x 50 normal state base.
As you train to achieve FPSSJ, your SSJ increase becomes greater : x65,x75, and so on... Until you reach x100 which is SSJ2.
That doesn't work with SSJ3 though... :/