Question about "hardcore" anime fans opinion on DBZ dub

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Re: Question about "hardcore" anime fans opinion on DBZ dub

Post by 90sDBZ » Sun Oct 20, 2013 3:04 pm

Kakarot88 wrote:But the simple fact is the performance are wildly different than they were in Z. I personally find them to be meh at best, often too reserved or akwardly rythmed and not even matching the voice flaps it just looks like a dub. period. Sure they were green in the funi american Z dub and many scenes actually sound awkward, but it had a certain charm that Kai lacks. Kai just is not as enjoyable becuase the cast sounds bored and stiff.
I kind of agree with this. I mean I don't think the cast actually sound bored and the acting is really great but there is a noticeable stiffness at times. Kai just feels sort of like it takes itself a bit too seriously at times. Like really self-aware. The Z dub did occasionally go a bit overboard with the corniness but I never once felt like it took itself too seriously. That's the main reason it's my favourite version. It was serious when it needed to be but had plenty of comic relief added in that just sort of flowed naturally with the cast, the score and the way the show was presented that made it a valid take on Dragonball in its own right. You could just relax and enjoy it without overthinking things.

It's pretty ironic how seriously people take Dragonball on the internet when you think that it was never something that was meant to be taken too seriously. Something that irritates me is when people say the Funi dub is just like a parody or for kids. Even the Japanese manga felt like a parody in many ways. Like how Toriyama would include characters like the Marshmallow man from Ghostbusters, the cast from the Wizard of Oz and come out with the most obviously cliché plot twist at the start of Z that actually ironically made Goku more like Superman which is something people hate on the dub for. And the Android saga been an obvious ripoff of The Terminator. The way people talk you'd think Dragonball was a well thought out work of art that had been fully conceived in its makers head years prior to its birth. And saying the Funi dub turned it into a kids show is just a ridiculous argument. It was already a kids show and a kids comic. Toei even handled the anime in a way that would sell toys so the argument of Funi making it for kids really is weak.

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Re: Question about "hardcore" anime fans opinion on DBZ dub

Post by TheGmGoken » Sun Oct 20, 2013 3:11 pm

90sDBZ wrote:
Kakarot88 wrote: cliché plot twist at the start of Z that actually ironically made Goku more like Superman which is something people hate on the dub for. And the Android saga been an obvious ripoff of The Terminator. The way people talk you'd think Dragonball was a well thought out work of art that had been fully conceived in its makers head years prior to its birth. And saying the Funi dub turned it into a kids show is just a ridiculous argument. It was already a kids show and a kids comic. Toei even handled the anime in a way that would sell toys so the argument of Funi making it for kids really is weak.
1. I'm tired of this. Superman isn't the ONLY character in history(not even the most popular character in history) that came from fucking space. Hell in the anime(Not sure in the manga) filler during Dragonball an android already said that Goku wasn't human due to his dna or some shit. Seeing as the anime popularity.....people already knew Goku wasn't human.

2. People complain that it was water down for USA kids. Not kids all the way. There a huge difference thus making thier point strong.

3.
I never once felt like it took itself too seriously. That's the main reason it's my favourite version. It was serious when it needed to be but had plenty of comic relief added in that just sort of flowed naturally with the cast, the score and the way the show was presented that made it a valid take on Dragonball in its own right. You could just relax and enjoy it without overthinking things.
Please this have NOTHING to do with the debate right now. This is not the Kai vs Funi debate. Or why Funi did better onZ than Kai.
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Re: Question about "hardcore" anime fans opinion on DBZ dub

Post by Metalwario64 » Sun Oct 20, 2013 3:15 pm

TheGmGoken wrote:Hell in the anime(Not sure in the manga) filler during Dragonball an android already said that Goku wasn't human due to his dna or some shit.
Have you been reading the Wiki? That all sounds like a ridiculous interpretation of when Sargent Metallic's vision simply shows "alien" in one scene.
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Re: Question about "hardcore" anime fans opinion on DBZ dub

Post by TheGmGoken » Sun Oct 20, 2013 3:16 pm

Metalwario64 wrote:
TheGmGoken wrote:Hell in the anime(Not sure in the manga) filler during Dragonball an android already said that Goku wasn't human due to his dna or some shit.
Have you been reading the Wiki? That all sounds like a ridiculous interpretation of when Sargent Metallic's vision simply shows "alien" in one scene.
DB wiki? Hell to the fucking no! It was the first thing that came to mind

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Re: Question about "hardcore" anime fans opinion on DBZ dub

Post by Metalwario64 » Sun Oct 20, 2013 3:38 pm

Sorry, guess that was a bit offensive. :lol:
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Re: Question about "hardcore" anime fans opinion on DBZ dub

Post by Brodes » Sun Oct 20, 2013 4:40 pm

JulieYBM wrote:
Saago wrote:This "it's the same show! We're all fans of the same product!" mentality is kind of strange, considering that most dub fans can't stand the Japanese version, and most fans of the Japanese version can't stand the dub. Which means an average fan of the dub and an average fan of the original version can't watch the show together, because one of them will always dislike it. That's an interesting definition of "liking the same show", to say the least.
This hits the nail on the head as well as it can ever. Dragon Ball, Dragon Ball Z, Dragon Ball GT, and Dragon Ball Kai star Nozawa Masako. What fans of a licensee's dub are watching does not, therefore it is not Dragon Ball. A television show or film isn't just it's underlying story, it's a dramatization. Dramatizations are the sum of many components, a story, actors, music, sound effects, and visuals, whether animated or filmed using live actors. If you replace one component you're radically changed the proverbial bag of trail mix into something entirely different.

This discussion is not about shaming anyone for liking pants or shorts. It's about explaining why a radish is a radish.
They are versions of the same product, just like, using your radish analogy, there are multiple types of radishes that are still radishes. Your dismissal and dislike of certain versions doesn't make them any less valid for people to be fans of. And I say this as someone who doesn't care for the dub outside of Kai, or the Ocean dubbed movies.

This attitude is really perplexing. Hardcore crazies on either side are the problem, trying to dictate who is or isn't a fan based on which version they prefer is a ridiculous argument. Everyone who says they are a fan are a fan, it's as simple as that.

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Re: Question about "hardcore" anime fans opinion on DBZ dub

Post by TheWhiz » Sun Oct 20, 2013 5:27 pm

AjayLikesGaming wrote:
90sDBZ wrote:The Adventures of Goku and Friends or something like that would sound lame.
I dunno, man. Super Saiyan Adventures would totally be a hit! :wink:

Image
That is just genius :lol: :lol:

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Re: Question about "hardcore" anime fans opinion on DBZ dub

Post by Ajay » Sun Oct 20, 2013 5:28 pm

TheWhiz wrote: That is just genius :lol: :lol:
All credit goes to Scarz. I just slapped on some shitty logo and colouring behind it.
Follow me on Twitter for countless shitposts.

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Re: Question about "hardcore" anime fans opinion on DBZ dub

Post by TheGmGoken » Sun Oct 20, 2013 6:22 pm

AjayLikesGaming wrote:
TheWhiz wrote: That is just genius :lol: :lol:
All credit goes to Scarz. I just slapped on some shitty logo and colouring behind it.
Scarz can draw anything. Can't she?

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Re: Question about "hardcore" anime fans opinion on DBZ dub

Post by penguintruth » Sun Oct 20, 2013 6:33 pm

Brodes wrote: This attitude is really perplexing. Hardcore crazies on either side are the problem, trying to dictate who is or isn't a fan based on which version they prefer is a ridiculous argument. Everyone who says they are a fan are a fan, it's as simple as that.
It's not crazy. You either like the show for what it's meant to be or you're not a fan of the show. The logic is perfectly sound.
Kentai wrote:Son Gokuu is a fascinating character anyway, because he is - at face value, anyway - an idiot savant. The victim of violent head trauma as an infant [...] he's a simple bumpkin with a fair share of brain damage who's natural talents to work out what's wrong compensate for his broad lack of common sense. But he's also a fighter, through and through [...] he fight until he has, in no uncertain terms, beaten his enemy on terms they can both acknowledge. He doesn't want to kill anyone, or even prove that he can win... he just wants to know he can. He's an ineffably charming bastard who's manly leanings were really incendental, and yes, the fact that he was voiced by a squeaky woman made the combination perhaps all the more charming.


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Re: Question about "hardcore" anime fans opinion on DBZ dub

Post by TheGmGoken » Sun Oct 20, 2013 6:36 pm

penguintruth wrote: It's not crazy. You either like the show for what it's meant to be or you're not a fan of the show. The logic is perfectly sound.
So for all the fans who buy the dvds, buy the clothes, buy the toys, go to conventions DRESSED as Dragonball characters, and even buy Senzu Bean candy. Just because they like the English dub and never seen the JPN Audio or they prefer the English dub they are not real fans?

Read this please.
Kakarot88 wrote:
TheGmGoken wrote:Regardless of what dub you like. What audio you like. If you take the time to buy the dvds, toys, and shirts. You're a fan. Hell many people dress like DB characters. But just cause they don't like the JPN audio or they only saw the ENG dub suddenly they're not fans of DBZ. You know how dumb that sounds? I guess since the Korean dub is my favorite and I prefer it over JPN audio I'm not a "true" fan. Whatever that is.
This :clap: :thumbup: Pure and simple. That's my sentiment exactly, especially when I consider that the author made the series for (1) money and (2) to entertain adolescent male (specifically Japanese) boys. So if you are entertained and spent money really you're a fan cuz that right there accomplished Toriyama's goal. Well said.

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Re: Question about "hardcore" anime fans opinion on DBZ dub

Post by Ringworm128 » Sun Oct 20, 2013 6:52 pm

Adamant wrote:
90sDBZ wrote:Even if one doesn't want to acknowledge the dub as Dragonball that's still what it's called.
...which is part of the problem, really. Had Funimation called their... reversioning, whatever, something other than Dragonball, these conversations would've been a lot easier.
By you're logic the 89 Batman film shouldn't be called "Batman" because it isn't 100% accurate to the comics. But they still called it "Batman" because it was well, Batman. It was different yes, but it still used the characters and basic plot of Batman and it was under the Batman licence. To call it "Guy in Bat Costume" would be silly. Same with Dragonball, the characters are exaggerated and some parts of the plot are changed along with the tone but it's still DB just a different version. Saying you're not a fan because you like the Funi dub is like saying you're not a Ninja Turtles fan if you like the 87 series or a Mario fan isn't a Mario fan if he mostly plays Paper Mario.

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Re: Question about "hardcore" anime fans opinion on DBZ dub

Post by Adamant » Sun Oct 20, 2013 6:52 pm

TheGmGoken wrote: So for all the fans who buy the dvds, buy the clothes, buy the toys, go to conventions DRESSED as Dragonball characters, and even buy Senzu Bean candy. Just because they like the English dub and never seen the JPN Audio or they prefer the English dub they are not real fans?
Are people who buy Macross clothes, buy Macross toys, go to conventions dressed as Macross characters and buy Macross-themed candy fans of Macross even if they hate Macross and refuse to watch anything but Robotech?

You're focusing on specific wording and looking for things to be offended by instead of seeing the overall point.
Yes, they're fans of something that Funimation put out. No one's denying that. But they aren't fans of "Dragonball as created by Akira Toriyama" or "Dragonball as adapted very faithfully by Toei Animation". They don't like those things. What they like may happen to be called "Dragonball" as well, but it's "that thing Funimation made" they like, not Dragonball itself.

This is what people are trying to say. This is what you refuse to understand, being too hung up on the fact that both products have the same name than on anything else.
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Re: Question about "hardcore" anime fans opinion on DBZ dub

Post by Ringworm128 » Sun Oct 20, 2013 6:57 pm

I've never watched RT but from what I've heard it was meant to be an entirely different show, different plot, characters etc. Funi's Z was just supposed to be Z but with some aesthetical changes not some new show.

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Re: Question about "hardcore" anime fans opinion on DBZ dub

Post by Super Sonic » Sun Oct 20, 2013 7:06 pm

Adamant, why do you make a fuss about the Funimation dub? It's not in your native tongue, and you're across the ocean from where it was released. Figured your thoughts would've been "Tsk, Americans," or "I don't care what those foreigners do." That's how a lot of "hardcore" American fans think of when American cartoons are changed in other countries.

With Robotech, I'm of the opinion, only ones who can judge are those who if given the chance, would've watched Macross subbed when it originally premiered. That doesn't include me, because Robotech premiered before I learned to read. And how many did actually watch that back in 85? (Did at times, but watched Voltron and Star Blazers more back then).

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Re: Question about "hardcore" anime fans opinion on DBZ dub

Post by Adamant » Sun Oct 20, 2013 7:06 pm

ringworm128 wrote:I've never watched RT but from what I've heard it was meant to be an entirely different show, different plot, characters etc. Funi's Z was just supposed to be Z but with some aesthetical changes not some new show.
That's wholly irrelevant to anything. If you're unable to see the point, let's just make up some new shows:

There is a TV show named XYZ
Belgian dubbers do a bad dub of XYZ. They rename it ABC.
Bob the Belgian fan loves ABC. He thinks XYZ is shit.
Bob buys shit tons of merchandise of both XYZ and ABC, since it obviously doesn't matter to him that the logo on the packaging of his action figures says XYZ.
Bob goes to cons dressed as these characters. He buys bilingual DVDs to watch the ABC version.

Is Bob a fan of XYZ? Is it realistic to assume Bob would get offended if someone told him he wasn't really an XYZ fan?
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Re: Question about "hardcore" anime fans opinion on DBZ dub

Post by TheGmGoken » Sun Oct 20, 2013 7:13 pm

Are people who buy Macross clothes, buy Macross toys, go to conventions dressed as Macross characters and buy Macross-themed candy fans of Macross even if they hate Macross and refuse to watch anything but Robotech?
So they buy things they hate? Which is DIFFERENT from people buying DBz cause they like it. That comparison is comparing people who eat salads despite hating Salad to people who eat American Asian Food. One group is wasting money on buying stuff they hate while the other are enjoying what they like despite it being a different version.
You're focusing on specific wording and looking for things to be offended by instead of seeing the overall point.
Yes, they're fans of something that Funimation put out. No one's denying that. But they aren't fans of "Dragonball as created by Akira Toriyama
Yeah let's ignore the fact that some Funimation fans say they love Toriyama's work on BZ and still love the Funimation Dub. The character are very alike and the plot is almost the same. Y'all exaggerate the HELL out of what Funimation did to DBZ. Y'all act as if they 4kids it.
"Dragonball as adapted very faithfully by Toei Animation"
Yeah like Toei didn't change things like Funimation did :roll: PureBoo is the strongest Boo anyone?
What they like may happen to be called "Dragonball" as well, but it's "that thing Funimation made" they like, not Dragonball itself.
Not you just sound rude. So I guess to the people who can't have access to the JPN audio and only their dub can't become fans despite devoting their fiction life to dbz. I guess I'm not a fan of DBZ because I enjoy the Korean dub over the JPN Audio. So what I watch is "That thing made by South Korea's Tooniverse and Champ" not Dragonball.
This is what people are trying to say. This is what you refuse to understand, being too hung up on the fact that both products have the same name than on anything else.
Okay first. I never brought the name thing up. That was someone else. I think 90sDBZ, AjayLikesGaming, or jjgp1112. I refuse to understand? How do I "refuse" to understand. Refuse -
indicate or show that one is not willing to do something.
. Use the word don't. Even though y'all don't understand that people can have opinions that the JPN is maybe just maybe isn't as good as you think it is. Maybe they don't like it. Doesn't make them less of a fan. Just mean it's an opinion.
Funi's Z was just supposed to be Z but with some aesthetical changes not some new show.
This. It's not like they made a whole new animation just for the ENG dub. They made some changes. Some big. Some small. But did not change to the point to story changes
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Re: Question about "hardcore" anime fans opinion on DBZ dub

Post by Ringworm128 » Sun Oct 20, 2013 7:13 pm

Except DB is still XYZ, just a different version. I could see you're point if someone said they were a fan of the original Japanese version only despite only watching the dub but I don't see anyone going "I love the original version of DB, that "hope of the universe" speech is mondo awesome."
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Re: Question about "hardcore" anime fans opinion on DBZ dub

Post by Blu-ray_Mistress » Sun Oct 20, 2013 7:23 pm

Looneygamemaster wrote:
If you're not liking the show for what it's intended to be, how can you be said to really be a fan?
You enjoy Dragon Ball, no matter the version. That's all you need to be a fan.
+1 I agree with this 100%

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Re: Question about "hardcore" anime fans opinion on DBZ dub

Post by Super Sonic » Sun Oct 20, 2013 7:30 pm

Exactly. Are Japanese guys who like their dub of Beast Wars less fans than fans of the original?

But yeah as the original starter mentioned as well as EX, quite a few folks watch DBZ like they watched American cartoons. Note to you foreigners, many anime fans in the US watch anime, especially anime dubs, differently than they watch US cartoons. Why that is, I don't know, and even they don't know, or use excuses. For example, asked some guys about bad acting in anime dubs, and they mentioned a lot. When I asked to name bad acting in US cartoons, excluding anything made before 1990 or aimed at the 5 and under crowd, they couldn't name one. Said they never paid attention to the acting or noticed.

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