Will other Anime/Manga characters ever surpass Goku?

[Mewzard]

Also in Toriko, Jirou used his Knocking on the Earth and almost stopped its rotation. So Toriko is approaching DBZ levels as well, they're Saiyan saga level imo at max

It's more impressive when you consider the size of Toriko's World:



The color section is the Human World, and the stuff outside of it is Gourmet World

Every single bit of land on Earth takes up six squares in the middle of Human World.

Using the grid, Toriko's World would be somewhere between Jupiter and Saturn in size.

The human population does help support it given how the Human World (just a portion of the planet) supports a large number of people.

Spoiler:

In an attack that makes over 80% of the total world population it's victims (and that was after preparations to minimize the cost of human lives)

, we're told that's 25 billion in number. That means around 30 billion people or so. That's around 5 times the Earth's Population. There is about 7 times our world's worth of spaces in the Human World, so it even had room for some growth before that. That's ignoring Gourmet World, where all the really powerful creatures live.

[dario03]

My money is on One Punch Man. I can bet safely that he'll give Goku some trouble.

Naruto characters are getting there. Doujutsu is definitely something to be reckoned with. No telling what a Mangekyo Sharingan can do to a Saiyan's mind.

Genjitsu only work on beings with a chakra system, DBZ characters don't have those.
One-Punch man sounds like a 'No-Limits Falacy' has he one shotted being who can tank moon/planet busters?
Could he beat Galactus with one punch?

If Genjutsu is nullified on DBZ characters, than the Naruto universe is thoroughly screwed.

In terms of physical strength, speed, and durability, DBZ has Naruto trumped across the board. Genjutsu was their only ace in the hole and if you need Chakra for it to work on you, then that VS match is over.

Genjutsu not working on DBZ characters isn't a for sure thing (plus it isn't the only thing they had that could work). Its something that gets discussed in these kinds of verse threads a lot since the universes are different. Some people say it won't because of the whole Goku not having a chakra system, others say it will because chakra is in every living thing, ki is chakra, wouldn't make sense not to, etc, etc. It's like I was saying before, different fictions have different abilities and some times those abilities might need to be adjusted to fit both universes. Kind of like how if Goku fought people from Bleach are we going to discuss whether or not Goku would even see them or if he would just die instantly since he doesn't have reiatsu. It was shown in Bleach that normal humans couldn't usually see soul reapers and hollows but they could die just by being close to a powerful reiatsu user.

[Gonstead]

Now Kenpachi has assumingly unlocked all his strength and possibly his Shikai and Bankai after his duel with Unohana (which kinda ripped off the whole Saiyan Zenkai thing).

I'm a bit behind on Bleach but wasn't Kenpachi's Zanpakuto always in it's Shikai form because his spiritual power was too great? That was with his eye-patch as well, which intentionally nullifies his energy so he can drag out his fights.

[Saiga]

Now Kenpachi has assumingly unlocked all his strength and possibly his Shikai and Bankai after his duel with Unohana (which kinda ripped off the whole Saiyan Zenkai thing).

I'm a bit behind on Bleach but wasn't Kenpachi's Zanpakuto always in it's Shikai form because his spiritual power was too great? That was with his eye-patch as well, which intentionally nullifies his energy so he can drag out his fights.

Yes, but he didn't know the name of his Zanpakuto nor was he able to communicate it. What Kental is referring to his that recently his Zanpakuto spoke to him, and told Kenpachi it's name (which we didn't get to hear). There's been no implication that he has Bankai however.

[PhoenixEX]

...maybe?

[DBZGTKOSDH]

SS Vegeta was faaaa~aaaaar from weak enough to destroy Earth, yet Big Bang Attack, his most powerful technique, couldn't destroy the Earth. Some techniques aren't made to destroy planets or solar systems.

Yeah, because the ki was condensed:

Big Bang Attack:

A ki wave which Vegeta fired at Artificial Human No. 19. This technique, which easily destroyed Artificial Human No. 19, could be called Super Saiyan Vegeta's version of the Gyarik-ho. However, the differences between it and the Gyarik-ho are the ki's shape and firing method. First, he sticks one hand out in front, then emits a ki blast from the palm of that hand. This ki is condensed down into one big lump and can deal heavy damage inside a specific range. This is in contrast with the Gyarik-ho, which attacks a wide range. After the Big Bang Attack was fired, the ground around where Artificial Human No. 19 stood was completely wiped out, as if it had been dug away. Such effectiveness made it Vegeta's strongest attack at the time.

I don't see what point your trying to make here. Vegeta's big bang attack has the condensed ki of multiple planet busters.

The chakra in Bijuu Dama is also condensed. It's almost exactly the same thing.

My point is that the Bijuu Dama is the only technique in Naruto that is similar to the ki blasts, and we can't know if it has the destructive power to destroy the moon, because it's not an attack that is made to destroy something like that. Big Bang Attack for example does have the destructive power to destroy the moon, but it can't, because it isn't an attack made to destroy something like that as well.

SS Vegeta was faaaa~aaaaar from weak enough to destroy Earth, yet Big Bang Attack, his most powerful technique, couldn't destroy the Earth. Some techniques aren't made to destroy planets or solar systems.

Oh? http://youtu.be/Xnqtg0bte6w

That was nothing like the Big Bang Attack. What's your point?

[rereboy]

...

We only know it has enough power to do that, because it already happened in the series. Whenever did anything like that happen in Naruto? Then why assume that its the same thing instead of assuming that its just weaker?

[The Monkey King]

and we can't know if it has the destructive power to destroy the moon, because it's not an attack that is made to destroy something like that.

Until an attack on the same level or weaker than a Biiju bomb destroys to moon, it has nowhere near that amount of power and how much it's condensed is unknown.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

...

We only know it has enough power to do that, because it already happened in the series. Whenever did anything like that happen in Naruto? Then why assume that its the same thing instead of assuming that its just weaker?

Which is why I keep saying that we can't compare Dragon Ball & Naruto through these kinds of feats (planet busters). There are other feats to compare (not talking only about Naruto right now). For example in Boo arc, Goku could barely lift in base 40 tons, meaning that in SS3, he can barely lift 16.000 tons. Those from other series who can lift more than that should be stronger than Goku.

[Cursed Lemon]

We only know it has enough power to do that, because it already happened in the series. Whenever did anything like that happen in Naruto? Then why assume that its the same thing instead of assuming that its just weaker?

Which is why I keep saying that we can't compare Dragon Ball & Naruto through these kinds of feats (planet busters). There are other feats to compare (not talking only about Naruto right now). For example in Boo arc, Goku could barely lift in base 40 tons, meaning that in SS3, he can barely lift 16.000 tons. Those from other series who can lift more than that should be stronger than Goku.[/quote]

This is especially ridiculous seeing as Raditz effortlessly lifted a car with a single arm and then vaporized it completely.

[rereboy]

...

We only know it has enough power to do that, because it already happened in the series. Whenever did anything like that happen in Naruto? Then why assume that its the same thing instead of assuming that its just weaker?

Which is why I keep saying that we can't compare Dragon Ball & Naruto through these kinds of feats (planet busters). There are other feats to compare (not talking only about Naruto right now). For example in Boo arc, Goku could barely lift in base 40 tons, meaning that in SS3, he can barely lift 16.000 tons. Those from other series who can lift more than that should be stronger than Goku.

Yes, we can. We know that they can tank or survive attacks that would destroy planets. Freeza did it with just half of his body left and almost zero Ki. There's no one in Naruto capable of resisting or producing such a powerful attack even at their top power. As it has been said, their ace would be mental based techniques, it would be their only chance to win.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

There's no one in Naruto capable of resisting or producing such a powerful attack even at their top power.

Show me one instance where someone in Naruto fired a beam on the moon and failed to destroy it.

[rereboy]

There's no one in Naruto capable of resisting or producing such a powerful attack even at their top power.

Show me one instance where someone in Naruto fired a beam on the moon and failed to destroy it.

What you are saying doesn't make sense... Its like saying that Luffy from One Piece might be able to destroy the moon with one of his attacks, despite the fact that he has never shown, or was implied to have, that level of power, simply because we never see him attacking the moon. What kind of logic is that? We don't see something happen and nothing points in that direction so we can assume that its true? What...?

Its very simple. The largest attacks of Naruto are large town/city-busting attacks. Nothing greater than that is shown or implied. So, assuming that they can do it is wrong. We should only assume stuff when there's actually something to support the claim.

Dragon Ball's shown and implied feats in destructive attacks, resistance and tanking abilities are WAYYY above any in Naruto.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

What you are saying doesn't make sense... Its like saying that Luffy from One Piece might be able to destroy the moon with one of his attacks, despite the fact that he has never shown, or was implied to have, that level of power, simply because we never see him attacking the moon. What kind of logic is that? We don't see something happen and nothing points in that direction so we can assume that its true? What...?

What I'm saying is that we have seen destructive explosions in Naruto, but he haven't seen how things would go if that attack had went to the moon.

Its very simple. The largest attacks of Naruto are large town/city-busting attacks. Nothing greater than that is shown or implied. So, assuming that they can do it is wrong. We should only assume stuff when there's actually something to support the claim.

This is the most powerful explosion we've seen in Naruto, from Juubi's Bijuu Dama:


And this is SS Vegeta's most powerful technique, the Big Bang Attack:

[SaiyanZ]

Also in Toriko, Jirou used his Knocking on the Earth and almost stopped its rotation. So Toriko is approaching DBZ levels as well, they're Saiyan saga level imo at max

It's more impressive when you consider the size of Toriko's World:



The color section is the Human World, and the stuff outside of it is Gourmet World

Every single bit of land on Earth takes up six squares in the middle of Human World.

Using the grid, Toriko's World would be somewhere between Jupiter and Saturn in size.

The human population does help support it given how the Human World (just a portion of the planet) supports a large number of people.

Spoiler:

In an attack that makes over 80% of the total world population it's victims (and that was after preparations to minimize the cost of human lives)

, we're told that's 25 billion in number. That means around 30 billion people or so. That's around 5 times the Earth's Population. There is about 7 times our world's worth of spaces in the Human World, so it even had room for some growth before that. That's ignoring Gourmet World, where all the really powerful creatures live.

Exactly. I remembered I read that chapter and I jizzed all over my room lol, it was and still is imo the best manga chapter of 2013 by far. Also, I heard that Mitsutoshi said that Earth was around 3x the size of Jupiter in an interview or something

[rereboy]

..

The fact that we know that weaker attacks than that Big Bang were capable of destroying entire planets in Dragon Ball is the WHOLE REASON why we even assume that they concentrate their attacks so that the effects of the attack don't spread to the entire planet, like we know they easily could. Otherwise the power scaling would be inconsistent and illogical.

Where is this in Naruto? Hm? Where do we have to actually make an interpretative effort to understand why the attacks aren't ripping the planet apart when much weaker attacks could? That NEVER happens, because there's NO attack shown or implied to be even near that kind of power. The whole logic of concentrated attacsk doesn't even apply. Those big explosions are literally the biggest destructive power shown or implied and they are WAYYYY inferior to anything that could rip the planet apart. We would say the same thing about Vegeta's Big Bang if we didn't KNOW that his attack is much powerful than attacks that could destroy the Earth. Hence why we assume that he is concentrating his attacks so that the planet isn't pulverized. THAT's the difference.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

The Bijuu Dama definitely can't destroy the Earth, but how can we know that it can't destroy the moon?

Reason I'm arguing isn't because I believe that the Juubi is stronger than someone like Freeza. It's because I don't believe that it's weaker than Kame-sennin or Taopaipai.

[The Monkey King]

There's no one in Naruto capable of resisting or producing such a powerful attack even at their top power.

Show me one instance where someone in Naruto fired a beam on the moon and failed to destroy it.

No offence but you're beginning to sound like a bit desperate here, your argument makes no sense.

What you are saying doesn't make sense... Its like saying that Luffy from One Piece might be able to destroy the moon with one of his attacks, despite the fact that he has never shown, or was implied to have, that level of power, simply because we never see him attacking the moon. What kind of logic is that? We don't see something happen and nothing points in that direction so we can assume that its true? What...?

What I'm saying is that we have seen destructive explosions in Naruto, but he haven't seen how things would go if that attack had went to the moon.

So the explosion would get 1000s of times bigger if it hit to moon?

Which is why I keep saying that we can't compare Dragon Ball & Naruto through these kinds of feats (planet busters). There are other feats to compare (not talking only about Naruto right now). For example in Boo arc, Goku could barely lift in base 40 tons, meaning that in SS3, he can barely lift 16.000 tons. Those from other series who can lift more than that should be stronger than Goku.

40 tons?
BoS Kid Goku could lift and throw cars and lift and crush boulders.
BoS Ozaru Goku smashed a 12 inch thick steel wall with one punch.
21stBT Goku could push house sized boulders and jump above the clouds.
Tao Pai Pai could casually throw stone pillars 2300km at hypersonic speeds.
Goku threw king Piccolo through the castle tower so hard that the whole tower collapsed on top of him.
23BT Goku casually threw giant Piccolo as though he were 'As light as a feather'.
I go with Death Battle's theory that 40 tons is Goku's strength without ki, it's the only way it makes sense to me, that and bukujutsu made it a lot harder.

Anyway as for Goku's punching power, Freeza tanked multiple planet busting attacks (Vegeta's gallic gun, Goku's Kaio-ken X20 Kamehameha and Goku's spirit bomb) and a planetary explosion whilst chopped in half, near death and pushed inside the planet itself.
And I'd say by the time of the Cell games SSJ Goku could splatter Freeza with a single punch. It makes sense since Goku's punches have consentrated ki inside them and Goku's strength stems from his ki:

Spoiler:

The Bijuu Dama definitely can't destroy the Earth, but how can we know that it can't destroy the moon?

Reason I'm arguing isn't because I believe that the Juubi is stronger than someone like Freeza. It's because I don't believe that it's weaker than Kame-sennin or Taopaipai.

Nah, that's waaaay too low.
I'd put the Juubi between BoZ Goku/Piccolo and Raditz.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

No offence but you're beginning to sound like a bit desperate here, your argument makes no sense.

We just don't have enough evidence to tell how strong are the top Naruto characters compared to DB characters, because the fighters from Naruto are very different from the fighters from Dragon Ball. Chakra & Ki are not the same thing, and they are different in many ways.

So the explosion would get 1000s of times bigger if it hit to moon?

That's not how destroying a planet works. To destroy a planet, one has to send the ki blast inside the core of the planet, and make it explode. They don't create explosions that engulf the whole planet.

Nah, that's waaaay too low.
I'd put the Juubi between BoZ Goku/Piccolo and Raditz.

I think that the Juubi between Nappa & Vegeta, with the rest of the top tiers (like Naruto) being around 23rd TB Goku & Piccolo.

[TheGmGoken]

That's not how destroying a planet works. To destroy a planet, one has to send the ki blast inside the core of the planet, and make it explode. They don't create explosions that engulf the whole planet.

Does Pure Boo know what a Planet Core is?