I... dooon't think it was meant to be taken literally like that.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:Toriyama said that he wanted to create something that was stronger than Super Saiyan, and he came up with Fusion, meaning that Fusion has a bigger multiplier than SS, which is a x50.
The numbers I believe:DBZGTKOSDH wrote:
Goku: 10
SS Goku: 500
SS2 Goku: 1.000
SS3 Goku: 4.000
Goten: 5
SS Goten: 250
Gotenks: 255
SS Gotenks: 12.750
SS3 Gotenks: 102.000
How weak do you think they are?khalildh wrote:Or... You know, Goten and Trunks are actually really weak compared to the Goku and Vegeta and are much weaker than 2x.
I disagree. Base Gotenks was stronger than Piccolo, since he couldn't stop him from going to fight Boo, and everyone's reactions seem to imply that base Gotenks' power was very big. Even Trunks' assumption after their training that at base they would be around as strong as Boo could have been because they were closer to Innocent Boo (the one they had fought with), and underestimated Boo's power-up.Kaboom wrote:I... dooon't think it was meant to be taken literally like that.
Fusion is just a way to make a stronger person overall, who can then be made stronger than other people by using Super Saiyan forms.
Doesn't work. You are saying that SS Gotenks (post?) would be as strong as SS2 Goku & Vegeta, the ones that couldn't beat Innocent Boo, yet Goku was sure that even without training they would surpass Innocent Boo, sure enough to not kill Boo by himself & tell Piccolo not to put them in RoSaT, and Piccolo only believed that Gotenks didn't stand a chance after Evil Boo appeared.MDSTSSJ wrote:The numbers I believe:
Spoiler:
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
That's not what you said down there. And don't those two statements mean the same thing?No! I believe Boo Arc SSJ3 Gotenks is four times stronger than Boo Arc SSJ3 Goku.
We never got a confirmation that he powered up; considering Janemba's personality (a feral demon), I find it very unlikely that he let himself get hit, or that he can even suppress his power. He clearly doesn't care about a good fight; Goku was able to oppose him. SS2 Vegeta wasn't, so Janemba just one-shotted him. He was just flaring his aura in defiance.Yes, Goku put up a fight against him but Super Janemba was not fighting with his true power. Super Janemba true power is when he powering up against Gogeta.
It might just be a result of Hildegarn's body reacting to hits a different way. Like Buu.Ultimate Gohan never showed power to defeat Hildegarn. Full power U. Gohan punches the lower half part of Hildegarn's body ( who is weaker than his complete body and even more weaker than his second form ) with 0 damage. SSJ3 Gotenks dominates in skill and speed but never in power. Hildegarn super power is far superior than his own speed and technique.
He loses a major part of his biology that we earlier saw was incredibly important (it's how he ate), vomits blood immediately after it is severed, and is suddenly unable to one-shot someone far weaker than the guys he just beat. Do they even need to tell us? Did we need to be told that Freeza's power dropped when he was cut in half?Yes, the tail is an important part of Hildegarn body but we do not see anyone say that it has lost much of his power. Maybe he lost power but not much. I do not remember well but Freezer lost his tail and no power lost.
That wouldn't matter, since Gotenks is just that much stronger. Also, he was fully expecting a hit.In this movie the thing is different. SSJ3 Gotenks did nothing to stop the blow while Goku was prepared to take hits.
The Monkey King wrote:It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWokeRandomGuy96 wrote:He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.
That's the same way I see it. I'd only take the statement that way if Gotenks didn't need Super Saiyan to be relevant. A Super Saiyan fusion IS stronger than a Super Saiyan, though.Kaboom wrote:I... dooon't think it was meant to be taken literally like that.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:Toriyama said that he wanted to create something that was stronger than Super Saiyan, and he came up with Fusion, meaning that Fusion has a bigger multiplier than SS, which is a x50.
Fusion is just a way to make a stronger person overall, who can then be made stronger than other people by using Super Saiyan forms.
Is that why base Gotenks effortlessly curbstomped and toyed with someone Goku needed to go Super Saiyan to defeat?khalildh wrote:The JSAT special implies that SSJ Gotenks < SSJ Goku/Vegeta.
Gotenks and Trunks are likely to not be stronger than either Goku or Vegeta were during the 3 Year time period, and are likely comparable to Gohan at the time if not a little bit stronger because they have incredible potential.
The Monkey King wrote:It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWokeRandomGuy96 wrote:He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.
Not really. Gotenks in there seemed like he was just playing around like his usual self, not bothering to actually go for any serious win or anything.khalildh wrote:The JSAT special implies that SSJ Gotenks < SSJ Goku/Vegeta.
Gotenks and Trunks are likely to not be stronger than either Goku or Vegeta were during the 3 Year time period, and are likely comparable to Gohan at the time if not a little bit stronger because they have incredible potential.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:Base Gotenks was stronger than Piccolo.....
Not true. What happened is that Gotenks turned back into Goten and Trunks individually, meaning that Piccolo is stronger than both those two individually.kuartus4 wrote:DBZGTKOSDH wrote:Base Gotenks was stronger than Piccolo.....
He wasn't though, not even post-RoSaT (Room of Spirit and Time). When Gotenks reverted to base inside Buu, Piccolo came out dominant in Buu, meaning he was stronger.
And even then, Buu had traits that he didn't have when he later had Goten and Trunks removed. His clothes were different, Buu w/Goten, Trunks, and Piccolo had fingers, while Buu with just Piccolo did not, and I'm wanting to say the head tentacles were a different length, (although I'm not sure about that one.)Duo wrote:Not true. What happened is that Gotenks turned back into Goten and Trunks individually, meaning that Piccolo is stronger than both those two individually.kuartus4 wrote:DBZGTKOSDH wrote:Base Gotenks was stronger than Piccolo.....
He wasn't though, not even post-RoSaT (Room of Spirit and Time). When Gotenks reverted to base inside Buu, Piccolo came out dominant in Buu, meaning he was stronger.
Cipher wrote:If Vegeta does not kill Gohan, I will stop illegally streaming the series.
Malik_DBNA wrote:"Achievement Unlocked: Rule 34"Scarz wrote:Malik, stop. People are asking me for lewd art of possessed Bra (with Vegeta).
Gotenks' defusion would have happened afterwards. This scan shows that SSJ3 Gotenks reverts to base before defusing completelyDuo wrote:Not true. What happened is that Gotenks turned back into Goten and Trunks individually, meaning that Piccolo is stronger than both those two individually.kuartus4 wrote:DBZGTKOSDH wrote:Base Gotenks was stronger than Piccolo.....
He wasn't though, not even post-RoSaT (Room of Spirit and Time). When Gotenks reverted to base inside Buu, Piccolo came out dominant in Buu, meaning he was stronger.
The Rosat sequence seems like complete gag to me, and if Piccolo's statement is taken literally it would imply that Base Gotenks post-Rosat>SSJ Gotenks pre-Rosat, a +50x power increase in the span of one week, which is ridiculous. Not even Gohan and Goku increased that much in the 10.5 months they were in the Rosat.Super Saiyan Turlast x4 wrote:When Gotenks first forms in the rosat, Piccolo actually thinks they've powered-up enough to stand a chance against Super Boo. Piccolo was, of course, way off on that--but if anything, it should still place the fused kids comfortably stronger than Piccolo. I seriously doubt he thinks Gotenks has a chance if they're weaker than himself. The Boo saga could be pretty dumb at times, though.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
Super Saiyan Turlast x4 wrote:Quite a few sequences can be looked at that way, yes. Also, ridiculous power-up's are rarely logical.
Piccolo was wrong, but still notices a decent power-up from Gotenks. With that, we know he has an idea about his power before the training. There's also Trunks believing Base Gotenks has reached a level where they could fight Fat Boo evenly. Could be false, but Gotenks would still be way stronger than Piccolo. Piccolo knows Gotenks is doom without Super Saiyan 3, but only considers fighting Super Boo once the fusion is over. Back when the kids successfully complete fusion for the first time, Piccolo considers Gotenks incredible, but not enough to defeat Boo.
I just can't see Piccolo being stronger than Base Gotenks. He might be weaker than the Super Saiyan kids.
How is that a fact?kuartus4 wrote:There's also the fact that SSJ Gotenks(pre)~SSJ3 Goku.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
