Characters who got too much glory

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TheGmGoken
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Re: Characters who got too much glory

Post by TheGmGoken » Fri Jan 31, 2014 10:52 pm

dbzfan7 wrote:Well no need to argue as DBZG said the points for me. Thank You.

But I kinda do agree with F.Trunks getting a lot more than probably needed.
Well if we count the anime as well. His purpose was to basically cure Goku and get stronger. He not only got stronger but....

-Died(Though that was for Vegeta's character devolpment)
-USSJ("HE "SURPASSED" VEGETA")
- Fought evenly with Cell(Anime only)

And some fans still want him to kill Future Cell that went to the present.

Honestly I think Piccolo got a little to much glory. But I won't lie and say that I didn't like it.

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Retan
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Re: Characters who got too much glory

Post by Retan » Fri Jan 31, 2014 11:08 pm

How about Bardock

Got own episode, and special

The legendary Super Saiyan

Defeated Freeza's ancestor

Maybe... just maybe the original super saiyan god?

Was the father of Goku

For a character that appeared in the original manga for one panel that might be a bit to much :think: !!

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Re: Characters who got too much glory

Post by ABED » Fri Jan 31, 2014 11:34 pm

RandomGuy96 wrote:
I don't get what you are getting at. When would he lose to Vegeta?

Nevermind, I get what you mean, my bad. He most certainly could've repeated the same results. I can't think of a time when he lost a rematch. He could've defeated Piccolo again. In fact, the reason he let Piccolo live was so he could have someone to push him. The gravity training was so he could defeat Vegeta, amongst others. After Super Saiyan, he could defeat Freeza anytime. Yes, he didn't think about Freeza blowing up Earth from space but sans that he could still defeat him in a fight. Maybe he figured Freeza wouldn't just blow up the earth, he would want to make people suffer. Deadly bet, but this is Dragon Ball, a universe where mass murderers become good guys.
He could very easily have LOST as well. Yet he didn't care about the risks. He could have just sealed Piccolo.

He couldn't have foreseen that. He was going strictly off what had just happened: Vegeta kicked his ass, and vowed to come back and destroy the Earth. No one would be able to stop him if he came back a second time.

What does a fight matter if Freeza can just blow up the Earth?

Only one mass murderer became a good guy. Two if you count Buu, but I think the circumstances are enough to label the Buu who did the killing and the Buu who became a good guy as different beings (he literally expelled his evil, which took physical form).
Good point about sealing him up, but he wanted someone to push him and even though he won by a small margin, he still won decisively. It wasn't luck, and it could've been different had he not had the limitations of the tournament. Goku got a big boost after their battle, there was no way he was going to lose a rematch.

Goku could stop Vegeta if he came back a second time. He would've done gravity training in preparation whereas Vegeta needed time to travel recouperate and travel back to Earth. Meanwhile, Goku would've trained for an opponent whose power he knew well by that point and he doesn't lose rematches.

Regardless of how many mass murderers (I know this is conjecture, but there's no way in hell everyone got off Papaya Island before Piccolo blew it up), the point remains that it's a wacky world, and the normal rules don't exactly apply.

My point is that Goku could've defeated Freeza and Freeza is the type to make his revenge painful, not just take out the Earth in one blast.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
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Re: Characters who got too much glory

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Sat Feb 01, 2014 12:04 am

ABED wrote:It's a lie. I don't think that's in Goku's character to lie to himself like that. He might stretch things out a little, but I don't think he's ever flat out lied to himself and an opponent like that. Vegeta didn't stand a chance, so why do that, especially when he knows what's on the line and that he won't be around to fix it. Goku might take crazy risks, but he doesn't do it unless he can take care of it later. Case in point, Piccolo, Vegeta, and Freeza.
But he just did it with Vegeta when they freed Boo so that he won't hurt Vegeta's pride, so he can have an awesome fight with Vegeta, and so he can stay on Earth longer. He also lied & took a huge risk when he said that he couldn't beat Boo and let the Earth on the hands of Goten & Trunks (which almost ended in a tragedy, but I believe that Goku took the right decision here).
No one put up a fight. It's not like he was the only one who wanted to fight them. It wasn't a unilateral decision.
That just makes him equally an asshole as Vegeta and anyone else that didn't support Bulma.
Goku wasn't fighting Freeza and dragging it out just to enjoy the fight. He wanted to break Freeza mentally and physically.
He wanted to both have an awesome fight, and crush Freeza mentally & physically.
I agree that Goku has a bad habit of letting enemies live, but unfortunately, even the best superheroes do the same.
Which is stupid, because letting guys like Piccolo, Vegeta, Nappa, the Ginyu Tokusentai, and Freeza leave is like letting guys like Hitler or Bin Laden leave free. At least he stopped that after Freeza arc.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.

Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.

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Re: Characters who got too much glory

Post by ABED » Sat Feb 01, 2014 12:14 am

But he just did it with Vegeta when they freed Boo so that he won't hurt Vegeta's pride, so he can have an awesome fight with Vegeta, and so he can stay on Earth longer. He also lied & took a huge risk when he said that he couldn't beat Boo and let the Earth on the hands of Goten & Trunks (which almost ended in a tragedy, but I believe that Goku took the right decision here).
Goku's made ridiculous choices before, but he never did it with the intent of having someone else clean up his mess.

It's only a lie assuming Toriyama knew about SS3 before hand.

He wasn't lying when he said he couldn't defeat Majin Buu. That was a retcon and inconsistency, besides he did in fact tell Piccolo that even if he could win, it was best that the living protect the world. Regardless of his logic, he has no reason to lie.
He wanted to both have an awesome fight, and crush Freeza mentally & physically
I would argue the latter moreseo than the former.
That just makes him equally an asshole as Vegeta and anyone else that didn't support Bulma.
Agreed, but that's what happens when you have Dragon Balls, it's hard to create drama when you can magically wish for things. You are forced as a writer to make leaps in logic, have characters act like morons and assholes.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
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Re: Characters who got too much glory

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Sat Feb 01, 2014 12:24 am

ABED wrote:Goku's made ridiculous choices before, but he never did it with the intent of having someone else clean up his mess.
Except for that time. Majin Boo was free because of him & Vegeta, so it should be his responsibility, like Vegeta went & died. But still, I agree with Goku's choice, because by passing the torch to Goten & Trunks, they would be forced to surpass him & Majin Boo, and be strong enough to defeat a more powerful enemy in the future. If Goku had killed Boo, then Goten & Trunks would probably remain weaker than Goku & Boo, and if a new enemy stronger than Boo had appeared, the Earth would be doomed.
It's only a lie assuming Toriyama knew about SS3 before hand.
Yeah... this is the in-universe discussion thread. The story showed that Goku lied. If Toriyama had this in his mind is irrelevant, but even if he did, he still wouldn't have Goku use Super Saiyan 3, because it would drain his time, and he would never teach to Goten & Trunks the Fusion technique.
He wasn't lying when he said he couldn't defeat Majin Buu. That was a retcon and inconsistency, besides he did in fact tell Piccolo that even if he could win, it was best that the living protect the world. Regardless of his logic, he has no reason to lie.
No, he literally said to Vegeta that he lied back then.
ABED wrote:
He wanted to both have an awesome fight, and crush Freeza mentally & physically
I would argue the latter moreseo than the former.
True, because he wanted revenge. But he also wanted a good fight, since he gave up once the fight got one-sided.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.

Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.

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Re: Characters who got too much glory

Post by Duo » Sat Feb 01, 2014 2:05 am

Going to go with Broli on this one. No other villain just shows up and immediately beats the snot out of everybody effortlessly for an entire 2 films, 3 if you include his BS clone. He's like a ten year old boys Gary Stu.

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