Plothole Reconciliation Thread

[thatdbzguy]

Does Gohan's OOC-ness in the Cell Games count as a plot hole?

[Zephyr]

Does Gohan's OOC-ness in the Cell Games count as a plot hole?

How is being hesitant after being thrown into a match against your will, learning the real extent of how powerful you really are, being afraid of what you might do if you unleash your true power, and not actually knowing exactly how to unleash it, out of character?

The only other time Gohan was straight up told "okay Gohan, the plan is for you to fight!" was against the Saiyans. Look how that started out. Hesitation.

His dad's always been pretty much the strongest guy he knew. His savior in the most dire situations of his life. Now he learns that he's stronger than this guy?

Knowing that you're more powerful than your own father, who's always been there to save the day and beat up the bad guys who nearly put you on your death bed, it would be scary as hell fathoming the full extent of our power, and what might happen to those around you (and the planet you live on) if you really unleash it.

It's clearly tied to his emotions, and he's never just willed it out. He's always had to snap. Now, there's pressure on. All eyes are on him. He now has a responsibility to make use of his power, like against Nappa, where he also failed to do anything. Against Freeza, and when he did finally do something against the Saiyans, his back was literally against the wall.

[thatdbzguy]

Does Gohan's OOC-ness in the Cell Games count as a plot hole?

How is being hesitant after being thrown into a match against your will, learning the real extent of how powerful you really are, being afraid of what you might do if you unleash your true power, and not actually knowing exactly how to unleash it, out of character?

The only other time Gohan was straight up told "okay Gohan, the plan is for you to fight!" was against the Saiyans. Look how that started out. Hesitation.

His dad's always been pretty much the strongest guy he knew. His savior in the most dire situations of his life. Now he learns that he's stronger than this guy?

Knowing that you're more powerful than your own father, who's always been there to save the day and beat up the bad guys who nearly put you on your death bed, it would be scary as hell fathoming the full extent of our power, and what might happen to those around you (and the planet you live on) if you really unleash it.

It's clearly tied to his emotions, and he's never just willed it out. He's always had to snap. Now, there's pressure on. All eyes are on him. He now has a responsibility to make use of his power, like against Nappa, where he also failed to do anything. Against Freeza, and when he did finally do something against the Saiyans, his back was literally against the wall.

We probably shouldn't debate this here since there's already two other threads dedicated to the topic. I just wanted to know whether or not OOC-ness counts as a plot hole.

[hleV]

OOC-ness, unless somehow justified, indeed does count as a plothole in my book.

[kuartus4]

Dabra and Babidi are implied to be able to sense ki in this quote:

Context: talking about how Yamu and Spopovitch were followed by Goku and co.
Dabra: “Seems they’re trying to hide from us…In total…there are 7. We can’t use Kaioshin and Kibito’s energy…But 3 of them seem to have marvelous energy…”
Babidi: “Looks like it. It seems that we’ll get more than enough energy from just those 3…Kuhihihi…To think that we’d be able to revive Majin Boo so quickly…”

This creates a couple of plot holes. Obvously this quote implies that they are sensing certain amounts of ki that they consider to be marvelous and will allow them to fill up Buu's ball completely in a single day. But then later on they say that Pui Pui should be able to defeat them all at the same time. So apparently Dabra and Babidi think that energy way below Pui Pui is marvelous and that that energy x3 will be more than enough to revive Majin Buu at full power. If this is what they believe then why the heck is Babidi even trying to revive Buu? Going just by their comments the only inference that can be made is that Buu is maybe only just as strong or slightly stronger than Pui Pui. So why would Babidi bother when Dabura>>>>>3000 kili>>>>800 kili >>>>Pui Pui?

But of course that's not it. Even though the previous quote strongly implies that they can sense ki, and perhaps just severely underestimated the saiyans due to them being suppressed at the time, the following events suggest that they can't sense ki at all. When Goku goes SSJ vs Yakon, Dabura remarks something like,"Whats the big deal, he's just glowing a bit,"only noticing Goku's glow and seemingly completely oblivious to the fact that Goku just made a pretty huge power up that surpassed Yakon by a large margin, going from =< Yakon to almost 4x as strong as Yakon. Babidi probably suspected that Goku was using a power up technique, and fetched for the kili reader, again suggesting he couldn't feel Goku's power up himself either, since he needed a BP device to know for a fact. Honestly I see no way to reconcile these plot holes.

[dbgtFO]

I reconcile it with Babidi and Dabra checking out the strangers with Babidi's crystal ball. Babidi was then somehow able to see, which ones had the higher amounts of hidden power without actually knowing to what extent and without actually sensing their ki.
Namek's Eldest seemed capable of the same by holding his hand atop the head of his subjects.

[FoolsGil]

Plot Hole: Android/Cell Saga-Tenshinhan's Kikoho was able to pin Semi-Perfect Cell in a hole in the ground. Semi-Perfect Cell was infinitely times stronger than Kamiccolo and the Androids. So if [Kikoho > Semi-Perfect Cell > Androids, Kamiccolo > Basic SSJ, Normal Piccolo,] then how come when after Vegeta was beaten up by 18, Trunks was getting beat on by 17 and Piccolo jumped in to help, why didn't Tenshinhan just shoot a Kikoho at 17?

Reconciliation: Even Semi-Perfect Cell wasn't tipped off by Tenshinhan, 17 knew that Tenshinhan was there, maybe he would have dodged, maybe not. Alternatively 16 may have stepped in if 17 was too focused on Piccolo and Trunks to realized he was going to blasted to smithereens?

[kuartus4]

I reconcile it with Babidi and Dabra checking out the strangers with Babidi's crystal ball. Babidi was then somehow able to see, which ones had the higher amounts of hidden power without actually knowing to what extent and without actually sensing their ki.
Namek's Eldest seemed capable of the same by holding his hand atop the head of his subjects.

That explanation doesn't really work, since without the idea of a specific amount in their minds, Dabra and Babidi don't have any basis to consider their power as marvelous or to believe that that energy will be sufficient to fill Buu's ball.

[Hellspawn28]

Anyone have an explanation for why Cell never used the Kaio-Ken? It sure could have come in handy for him.

Kaio-Ken became useless once Goku became a SSj. It's like in the second Digimon season where they ditch the armor evolutions when they started to know how to become to use their champion evolutions.

[kuartus4]

When the gang asks Shenlong to revive everyone who died the day of the budokai, except the bad guys, Vegeta stays dead, signifying that Shenlong thinks Vegeta was a bad guy. Yet later when Dende asks Porunga to revive everyone killed after Babidi's arrival on earth, except the bad guys, Vegeta come back to life.

Why are Shenlong and Porunga in disagreement?

[Kamiccolo9]

When the gang asks Shenlong to revive everyone who died the day of the budokai, except the bad guys, Vegeta stays dead, signifying that Shenlong thinks Vegeta was a bad guy. Yet later when Dende asks Porunga to revive everyone killed after Babidi's arrival on earth, except the bad guys, Vegeta come back to life.

Why are Shenlong and Porunga in disagreement?

Did they revive everyone who died the day of the Budokai, or did they revive everyone who died at the Budokai? I'm pretty sure it was the latter.

[hleV]

Kibito didn't die at the Budokai.

[Kamiccolo9]

Kibito didn't die at the Budokai.

Ah, true.

Well, Vegeta's whole "accepting Goku as being better than him" thing came right before he was brought back to life, right? I guess that was enough to push him up to Porunga's "good guy" standards.

[dbgtFO]

You guys are overlooking an important fact:
Vegeta had already been revived once by Shenlong, he can't be wished back to life by Shenlong Again.

[sekzee]

That might have been one of the upgrades Dende made to Shenron.

[dbgtFO]

It wasn't.
Goku and co. thought so too, but Dende told them, he couldn't avert the rule.

[kuartus4]

When Goku and Freeza fight for a while, Freeza mentions how he didn't know there was someone stronger than Captain Ginyu. Yet what about Vegeta, Piccolo and Gohan, who all managed to surpass his second form power level of over 1 million, while Captain Ginyu was only at 120 K? And what about King Cold? who was equal with Freeza's suppressed final form?

Also, Goten mentions after finishing a fusion in the Rosat how he didn't know there was a level that surpassed Super Saiyan, referring to them achieving SSJ3 while fused. Yet Goten had seen Goku go SSJ3 earlier vs Fat Buu.

Anyone know how to reconcile these plot holes?

[AGentlemanSaiyan]

Most movies have plot holes and the quote from Gohan in the Bojack movie comes to mind.... "There's one thing you forgot, I'M MY FATHERS SON!" Jeez Gohan, What books has Chi-Chi made you read....

[Darkprince410]

Also, Goten mentions after finishing a fusion in the Rosat how he didn't know there was a level that surpassed Super Saiyan, referring to them achieving SSJ3 while fused. Yet Goten had seen Goku go SSJ3 earlier vs Fat Buu.

Anyone know how to reconcile these plot holes?

The way Goten words it makes me think it's less a comment about him being unaware of forms above Super Saiya-jin (since we clearly see that they have seen Goku transform into one), and more just him being in disbelief over the fact. Like "It's unbelievable that there's really something above Super Saiya-jin!" rather than "I had no idea there was a form above Super Saiya-jin!".

[Gogeta8001]

I made all 18 movies, along with PtEtSS & the Telebico Special, all fit together in an alternative take of the anime story some time ago:

First, the 1st TV Special & Episode of Bardock happened.

Then, Dragon Ball Movies 1, 2, and 3 happened one after another.
Then, the 10th Anniversary happened, but differently. The encounters with the RRA were the same (Blue survived from M3), but instead of Goku meeting Bulma, Yamcha, etc for the first time, Bulma went & called Goku again for another DB Hunt, and reunited with Oolong, Yamcha, etc on the road.
After the RRA is defeated, Goku goes to train around the world (the filler arc takes place there, and Goku met Tenshinhan & Chaozu like in the filler, except that they were friends now). Three years later, the 22th TB happened, but without Tsuru-sennin. Tenshinhan & Chaozu reunited with Goku & co. there, to have a friendly competition (Tenshinhan trained Chaozu BTW). Tenshinhan wins, Pilaf Gang (yep, they survived as well) releases Piccolo Daimao, etc. Everything happens like in the anime at that point, up until Goku's marriage (fillers happened as well).

Then, we go to Dragon Ball Z (all the fillers happened as well). DBZ Movie 1 happens first. Then, Raditz attacks, and everything happens the same, until the fight with Vegeta & Nappa. Goku arrives earlier, so nobody dies. Vegeta kills Nappa, then gets beaten like in the anime. One senzu remained, so Goku got healed immediately. Kuririn mentioned the Namekian Dragon Balls that Vegeta & Nappa talked about, so the Z-Senshi decide to go to Namek in case Vegeta was to go there, but decide to stay to Earth for a month to train. Meanwhile, Dr. Brief builds the spaceship from Goku's spaceship.
Movie 2 happens. Gohan gets a haircut. Movie 3 happens, and then Movie 4 happens (all 3 movies happened during the 1 month break). Goku gets near-death power ups from those fights, and after Movie 4, he is as strong as he was in the manga/anime when he arrived on Namek. One month passed, and Goku, Piccolo, Gohan, Kuririn, and Bulma go to Namek. Yamcha, Tenshinhan, and Chaozu stayed behind to guard the planet.
The Z-Senshi arrive on Namek to find Vegeta getting his ass kicked from Reacoom (Vegeta's adventures were the same as in the main story, minus Gohan & Kuririn). Rest on Namek happens like in the anime, up until Garlic Jr. arc, up until Trunks' arrival & Freeza's death (the 2nd TV Special happened in the future).
Movie 5 happens during the 3 years time-skip. Kami decided a few months before the Artificial Humans' arrival that he should merge with Piccolo, Dende becomes the new Kami. Movie 6 takes place.
The Artificial Humans arrive. Everything same until #16's, #17's & #18's activation. Everyone gets their ass kicked (including Super Namekian Piccolo). Bulma makes the device to deactivate the Artificial Humans, and they succeed in doing so. Goku gets healed. Movie 7 happens. Cell appears, and learns that #17 & #18 are deactivated. He finds the "dead" bodies and absorbs them to reach his Perfect Form. Cell starts training in other planets to get stronger (because he is not as strong as in the main story, since he never had to get strong enough to beat the Artificial Humans), while the Z-Senshi (Goku, Gohan, Vegeta, Trunks, Piccolo) enter the RoSaT in the same order as in the anime, but Goku doesn't focus on Gohan. After Goku & Gohan exit RoSaT, Movie 8 happens. After Vegeta's & Trunks' second trip, The Plan to Eradicate the Super Saiyans happens. Cell gets strong enough & announces the Cell Games. Goku decides to focus on making Gohan stronger than him. Cell Games happen as in the anime. Movie 9 happens.
Everything else happens the same, up until Videl learning how to fly. Gohan reveals her everything about Super Saiyans & Dragon Balls before the 25th TB. Movie 10 happens. 25th TB happens, and everything happens the same, until SS3 Goku kills Majin Boo (Innocent). However, Babidi escapes. Goku returns to After Life, Vegeta stays dead, Gohan returns to Earth without ever breaking the Z-Sword, the kids don't perfect Fusion (yet). Movie 11 happens. After the kids experience Bio-Broli's power, they decide to perfect Fusion to get stronger. Movie 12 happens. After the Dragon Balls get activated, Babidi collects them and revives Boo. Boo kills Babidi, Gohan restarts training with the Z-Sword. Rest of Boo arc happens like in the anime.
During the 10 years time-skip, Movie 13, JSAT Special, and Battle of Gods happen. The 28th TB arc happens. Dragon Ball GT(and its TV Special) happens. THE END.

Well, that was well thought out! I don't think I could have taken the time to think that all out.

The only problem with that is Vegeta wouldn't have spent a whole month on Namek. The time gap between the Saiyan Battles and the Namek Arc was less than a month so had Vegeta went alone, the Ginyu Force would have most likely killed him.