So do some at Funi have regrets with how DBZ was handled?

[MagicBox]

It might be just me, but I can't help but think this thread has become nothing but validation-seeking. The question was, "Did some people at FUNimation regret how they handled Dragon Ball Z?" The answer is "yes." They've said they regret how it was handled. They've said they would do the whole thing differently if they could do it again. They've said they're very proud of what they accomplished with Kai's (mostly) faithful dub. It's all straight from the horse's mouth. You can still like the dub. Many people do. It's not going anywhere. The FUNimation cast and crew are merely acknowledging their poor judgment with DBZ and distancing themselves from it.

What I see in this thread are people just not willing to accept that. "But I like the dub. Now you're telling me other fans think it's flawed? Now you're telling me the cast thinks it's flawed? But I like it! Why are fans and the cast and the crew distancing themselves from it? Surely the changes were helpful in some way? Surely they improved something? Surely the original version must have been inherently wrong somehow? I like the changed version! Isn't there anyone out there who still likes what I like?"

It's okay to like what you like. So what if the people involved don't think it was perfect? You may still enjoy it.

Sure the dialogue isn't anything to write home about, but like i said no one other than people like us care, the majority are more interested in the visuals.

I can't figure out why it looks like you're trying to speak for everybody on this point. This implication that "the majority" couldn't care less about what characters in a TV show are saying... I have no idea where you're getting this from. That's half of why you're watching a TV show. Everyone cares what these people are saying. It's why fans compare the manga dialogue to the cartoon dialogue. It's why fans compare the dub scripts to the original Japanese version. Hell, it's why dub fans compare the Z scripts to the Kai scripts. Are you making the "mainstream" argument, saying that your average Joe doesn't compare the script differences? What does that prove? How does that support what you're saying? Of course they don't compare script differences. Most of the time your "mainstream" fans don't know there's anything to even compare. It doesn't mean they're not still interested in what they're hearing.

[Cure Dragon 255]

I knew I should have just not said anything and let Magic Box handle the situation! He tells it like it is!

[ABED]

Sure the dialogue isn't anything to write home about, but like i said no one other than people like us care, the majority are more interested in the visuals.

Dialog is also important in conveying a mood. So is music, but that can easily mean holding back on the music. Over scoring something can have the opposite effect. The acting, the dialog, and music (or lack of) all needs to come together to so the author(s) can from the audience their intended reaction.

[Kakacarrottop]

I knew I should have just not said anything and let Magic Box handle the situation! He tells it like it is!

Indeed

[UltimateHammerBro]

Someone hasnt seen Adventure Time... (There's genocide and dark stuff there too). Although I do agree that DBZ isnt an "Adventure Comedy". And even the Saban/Faulconer has comedic themes here and there.

But more importantly, DBZ is supposed to be a Kung Fu Wuxia adventure and all the modern rock and roll clashes with that. And about the fact that the majority doesnt care about the scores and accuracy and so on. You do realize that people love the dub scores because they grew up with them and no other reason? I know, you are going to say that the original score isnt everyone's cup of tea but the only reason the dub scores are popular is because people grew up with them. And I dont think DBZ needed Funimation's changes to succeed. DBZ may be popular in USA but it is RELIGION in Latin America, Europe and other places that didnt alter the show as substantially as Funimation did.

I like your point. If the original score was "inherently wrong", all (or most) of the people in all these other countries which have seen DBZ with the original score would bash it and love the American score which "corrects" it. Ah, the American-centric mentality...

[ABED]

The dub also has a penchant for making jokes that aren't in character. I can think of two from Kuririn that are ridiculous aside from "mondo cool" which was at least 10 years out of date in 99.

Example 1: "It's moment like these that I ask myself, "Why didn't I become a shoe salesman?" Kuririn's real line was something like "I wish I had gotten married"
Example 2: In the dub, when Goku asks what marriage is after Chichi tells him about his vow at the 23rd Budokai, Kuririn says, "It basically means your life is over!" Part of Kuririn's character for years is that he wants to be with a woman, so that line makes no sense coming from him.

[UltimateHammerBro]

Example 1: "It's moment like these that I ask myself, "Why didn't I become a shoe salesman?" Kuririn's real line was something like "I wish I had gotten married"

Is it, by any chance, episode 3? The original line in that episode is one of the defining character moments for Krillin: he's so desperate for a girl.

[Cure Dragon 255]

I knew I should have just not said anything and let Magic Box handle the situation! He tells it like it is!

Indeed

Glad we agree on something!

[ABED]

Example 1: "It's moment like these that I ask myself, "Why didn't I become a shoe salesman?" Kuririn's real line was something like "I wish I had gotten married"

Is it, by any chance, episode 3? The original line in that episode is one of the defining character moments for Krillin: he's so desperate for a girl.

No, that's in the season 3 dub. It's the episode where Freeza makes his final transformation.

Where did you get episode 3 from?

[UltimateHammerBro]

Example 1: "It's moment like these that I ask myself, "Why didn't I become a shoe salesman?" Kuririn's real line was something like "I wish I had gotten married"

Is it, by any chance, episode 3? The original line in that episode is one of the defining character moments for Krillin: he's so desperate for a girl.

No, that's in the season 3 dub. It's the episode where Freeza makes his final transformation.

Where did you get episode 3 from?

Let's see...
After Raditz leaves with Gohan, Goku asks Roshi and Krillin to help him take him down. Krillin asks Bulma to revive him with the Dragon Balls if he dies, and Goku tells him that, since they have already come back once, they won't be able to do it again. Krillin and Roshi say that they'll help him anyway, and Krillin thinks (in the Japanese version):

This time, I'll die for sure! Dammit, I wanted to get married so badly.

[ABED]

Let's see...
After Raditz leaves with Gohan, Goku asks Roshi and Krillin to help him take him down. Krillin asks Bulma to revive him with the Dragon Balls if he dies, and Goku tells him that, since they have already come back once, they won't be able to do it again. Krillin and Roshi say that they'll help him anyway, and Krillin thinks

Ah, yes, forgot that one, thanks. In any case, that wasn't the moment I was referring to.

[GS7X7]

Final point I wanted to make here.

Like I said in that other topic I linked to, what Sean Schemmel said on this very board sounded like the typical rant you would have read countless times from people posting on the Dbzoa boards. For a Funimation employee to feel emboldened to make a public statement like that- then make zero attempts to delete or take it back- and for it to be the voice of GOKU of all people, says a LOT about how Funimation's views have evolved over time. If Sean Schemmel of all people feels that way then how many others at Funimation must feel the exact same way as him?

Funimation's gradually brought back the original music, improved the script, etc. and created a dub much more accurate to what the hardcore fans wanted to begin with. If Funimation felt that the old dub was perfect the way it had been then they would have done Kai the exact same way and never would have gradually brought back the original music.

So, Funimation's critics won in the end.

[ABED]

From a financial perspective, I can understand the decision to change the score, but they don't change it anymore. I wonder what lead to the decision. Was it purely an aesthetic one? Do they feel they can make more by keeping the properties closer to the original? Would that always have been the case had they done it from the beginning or did it only make sense profit wise to keep the original score once FUNi had become a more successful company?

[TheBlackPaladin]

So, Funimation's critics won in the end.

For that matter, so did FUNimation for listening to their critics. I've seen some fans try to put FUNimation at the same level as other dubbing companies who are famous for their "less than loyal" adaptation processes, and there's one major reason I always disagree with that: FUNimation listened. They listened and continually improved. They redeemed themselves...unlike other companies who, ironically enough, listened less and continued to get worse.

From a financial perspective, I can understand the decision to change the score, but they don't change it anymore. I wonder what lead to the decision...would that always have been the case had they done it from the beginning or did it only make sense profit wise to keep the original score once FUNi had become a more successful company?

You said it, I believe. As has been discussed before, that alternate score created another revenue stream for them. Considering that DBZ had already been cancelled once before, they probably felt like using the original score was a financial risk they couldn't afford to take. That created a separate problem down the line when a divide in the fanbase was created due to the different scores, but as a company, they were thinking in the moment...and in the moment, they must have been scared stiff that they would go out of business if they weren't very, very careful financially. Dragon Ball's initial lack of success, and DBZ's cancellation shortly after Goku arrived on Namek, probably didn't do anything to calm them down.

Fast-forward almost 20 years, and they're now doing quite well. Well enough that they're not afraid of taking those risks anymore...for that matter, experience has taught them that using the original score isn't a risk--it's what most fans want to hear anyway.

[GS7X7]

From a financial perspective, I can understand the decision to change the score, but they don't change it anymore. I wonder what lead to the decision. Was it purely an aesthetic one? Do they feel they can make more by keeping the properties closer to the original? Would that always have been the case had they done it from the beginning or did it only make sense profit wise to keep the original score once FUNi had become a more successful company?

A couple years back I (anonymously of course, since I was basically viewed as like a demon by Funimation for attacking them so much) started a petition asking for this to happen, and had a friend talk to Evan Jones (their main sound guy) who said it was a great idea and described it as like a seed to be watered.

The petition got barely any support (props to UKDB, Duncan's site, as well as dbzgtlegacy.com, and whatever other ones supported it) and only got about 550 signatures total (and a lot of people criticized me and made fun of me for supporting the petition!) but the idea did eventually happen a couple years later.

When Funimation did their re-release (and dub) of Seasons 1-3 they included a dual-soundtrack option, the first time it'd ever been done for any dub dvd release. So props to Evan Jones, he was always gungho for the idea happening and I'd imagine he's the one that put in into motion.

After the re-release of DBZ Seasons 1-3, people finally had a chance to compare both soundtracks. In the end, people (and Funimation) seemed to prefer the original soundtrack so that was pretty much it for replacing music there since.

[ABED]

Blue Gender and Yu Yu Hakusho came not long after DBZ, but they never had the treatment DBZ had. If it all was for purely financial reasons for the changes, how come FUNi only did that to DBZ?

[GS7X7]

Blue Gender and Yu Yu Hakusho came not long after DBZ, but they never had the treatment DBZ had. If it all was for purely financial reasons for the changes, how come FUNi only did that to DBZ?

I had a few people from Funi email me during my DBZU 2 years. (I e-mailed nearly everyone from Funi except for the janitor so it was inevitable a few would e-mail me back. )

The general consensus I got was that their decisions made economic sense and were responsible for DBZ doing well in America. Or, at least, it wouldn't have done as well without those decisions.

With Schemmel's public statement here, other interviews parroting what he said in a more neutral tone and DBZ Kai, it seems like their views of things have gradually softened up over time.

[TheBlackPaladin]

Blue Gender and Yu Yu Hakusho came not long after DBZ, but they never had the treatment DBZ had. If it all was for purely financial reasons for the changes, how come FUNi only did that to DBZ?

To me, that suggests that they would have liked to have used the original score in DBZ from the start, and decided to use Blue Gender and Yu Yu Hakusho as "guinea pigs" of sorts to see if they would suffer business-wise from using the original score.

[GS7X7]

Here's the original Genterview.

http://www.animecauldron.com/dbzuncenso ... rview.html

"Steve Harmon: Was the replacement of the soundtrack in the first two seasons a Saban decision?

Gen Fukunaga: The replacing of the music, was a FUNimation desicsion. With our own soundtrack, we could charge royalties for every second it's heard."

[ABED]

Here's the original Genterview.<br abp="690"><br abp="691">http://www.animecauldron.com/dbzuncenso ... ew.html<br abp="692"><br abp="693">"Steve Harmon: Was the replacement of the soundtrack in the first two seasons a Saban decision?<br abp="694"><br abp="695">Gen Fukunaga: The replacing of the music, was a FUNimation desicsion. With our own soundtrack, we could charge royalties for every second it's heard."

Acknowledged and understood, the question was if they could've made more money keeping the show closer to the original or they made more money keeping closer to the original after a certain point.

The general consensus I got was that their decisions made economic sense and were responsible for DBZ doing well in America. Or, at least, it wouldn't have done as well without those decisions.

That simply sounds like they are trying to justify to themselves the changes they made. Sure times have changed, but I don't know if American children wouldn't have been as open to an accurate DBZ, but clearly things moved in a direction for dubs in general becoming more accurate. It's a shame that DBZ wasn't a part of that trend. It feels like the tail end of the previous philosophy of changing things drastically so 40 or 50 year old suits can tell themselves they are doing it to appeal to kids.