Is Dragon Ball becoming too soft?

[Dayspring]

I honestly don't understand how people think the Buu arc was lighter than the rest of Z.

Books 36 and 37 were pure gag-manga. The rest was basically Demon Piccolo all over again, only with breaks for more gag-manga scenes than had become typical for books 17 to 35. "Z" is really just the anime producers giving Goku a championship belt. It's not a matter of tone, it's just that it takes place after he's finally achieved the title of world's strongest fighter.

In terms of "dark" tone, I'd rank the series as follows:
-Nappa's arrival to defeat of Freeza
-Piccolo Daimao
-Cell's arrival to defeat of Cell
-Post-Namek to arrival of Cell
-Radditz to Nappa's arrival
-Super Boo to the death of Kid Boo
-Videl's fight in the 25th Budokai to the arrival of Super Boo
-23rd Budokai
-Red Ribbon Arc
-22nd Budokai
-21st Budokai
-Series start to Goku leaving to train with Kamesennin
-Post Cell Games to Videl's fight in the 25th Budokai
-Kamesennin's training

I honestly feel the real reason people think Dragonball got shittier and shittier is because they started off with Z and decided if it had the same branding ("Z") as Freeza, then it must all be the same thing. It's really not that simple, even in the Z portion. Meanwhile, it's not DB and Z, it's just Dragonball.

I also believe the problem with what came after the series ending is that it's been in movie form rather than as a TV show or manga series. The pacing is all off due to runtime constraints.

[Big Momma]

I know you can't please everyone, but you have to please a majority, balance it out. I think BoG didn't quite did that. The movie didn't get critically acclaimed and plus the whole fanbase is divided by the whole thing. PEOPLE HERE BETTER NOT DENY THAT CUZ IT IS TRUE!

But, according to IMDB and Rotten Tomatoes, BoG is pretty well-liked.

I don't really know where all this division about BOG is coming from. It made a great amount of money for its limited run in theatres in the US and it proved to be so well liked it got more screenings, sold a shit ton of BD's and has become one of the highest selling titles Funimation has ever had. I think most of the division about the movie comes from Kanzenshuu and Youtube, because it seem as though the mass audience generally like the film.

Even my dad, who in no way has any particular attraction to anime (Although he did watch it with us on Toonami when we were kids, and even was my introduction to things like BitTorrent when he would DL short clips from Japanese episodes) enjoyed the movie. Actually, he watched it on his own online (much to my surprise) and said he thought it was great.

And really his main exposure to DBZ (Outside of a couple random episodes via BitTorrent) was the Toonami dub in the early 00s.

[tx3]

like i said ..the mainstream like it that way ..but hardcore fans ...i mean thoes one who love the manga the only true source ..really cant feel BoG.

it kinda like in videogames now, everything that comes from japan nowadays is becoming more and more softer ...it's "in" right now over there.

facepunching bonebreaking mountain chrushing - stuff is more like a 90's thing seems like

[Big Momma]

like i said ..the mainstream like it that way ..but hardcore fans ...i mean thoes one who love the manga the only true source ..really cant feel BoG.

I'm about as hardcore as it gets when it comes to being a Dragon Ball fan, and I loved BoG.

[Lord Beerus]

like i said ..the mainstream like it that way ..but hardcore fans ...i mean thoes one who love the manga the only true source ..really cant feel BoG.

I'm about as hardcore as it gets when it comes to being a Dragon Ball fan, and I loved BoG.

Same here. I am huge Dragon Ball fan and have been for many years and I love BOG to death.

[Eire]

So you are "mainstream", "casual", "prequel-plankton", "Darth Maul fanboy"... whoops, not this forum, but deal with that.
Anyway, seeing that debate I'm glad that prolonged exposure to Star Wars fandom in my childhood made me immune to "true fan" debate.
Amateurs

[Captain Space]

like i said ..the mainstream like it that way ..but hardcore fans ...i mean thoes one who love the manga the only true source ..really cant feel BoG.

it kinda like in videogames now, everything that comes from japan nowadays is becoming more and more softer ...it's "in" right now over there.

facepunching bonebreaking mountain chrushing - stuff is more like a 90's thing seems like

Despite BoG being more true to the spirit of the manga than any of the Toei movies, you mean?

[FortuneSSJ]

like i said ..the mainstream like it that way ..but hardcore fans ...i mean thoes one who love the manga the only true source ..really cant feel BoG.

Don't go that way. Since I'm with this since 1995/96 and I loved BOG.

[KaiserNeko]

I'm as hardcore as most people get about Dragonball and Battle of Gods is far and away better than any of the movies before it and is one of the few Dragonball Z films that feels legitimately "Dragonball".

The series has gotten a little softer, though, to be fair. None of the newer animation has gotten as dark and violent as the Buu saga ever got. But that's not necessarily a problem. Just as long as they're not holding themselves back.

[tx3]

dont get me wrong guys i dont like BoG but i would not say it's terrible ..just ok..nothing special.
what we all agree on is ...that Dragonball needs more fighting and less ...well everything XD. right?

[tx3]

dont get me wrong guys i dont like BoG but i would not say it's terrible ..just ok..nothing special.
what we all agree on is ...that Dragonball needs more fighting and less ...well everything that is not fighting ..except humor ..humor belongs to Dragonball ...but no more dancing Vegetas please XD. right?

[Captain Space]

Like half of BoG was fighting though.

[tx3]

Like half of BoG was fighting though.

ok

[Big Momma]

You should probably type more than "ok" if you're going to respond. A one-word reply doesn't really add much.

dont get me wrong guys i dont like BoG but i would not say it's terrible ..just ok..nothing special.
what we all agree on is ...that Dragonball needs more fighting and less ...well everything that is not fighting ..except humor ..humor belongs to Dragonball ...but no more dancing Vegetas please XD. right?

(Why did you submit a post simply quoting yourself?)

As for what you said, I'd imagine a good number of people disagree. The entire story is "Dragon Ball", even the "Z" part. It's all the same story. And it has plenty of it's own humor. I love the fighting, too. But I would love for more of the humor to come back. I would love for the series to not take itself so seriously.

[Sedorna]

dont get me wrong guys i dont like BoG but i would not say it's terrible ..just ok..nothing special.
what we all agree on is ...that Dragonball needs more fighting and less ...well everything XD. right?

I disagree. For me, fighting for the sake of fighting itself is boring and uninteresting. Now, that's not to say I don't like the fights. I love the Saiyan saga Vegeta vs Goku and friends fight. But not because of the punches and kicks and broken bones, but because of what it shows about the characters. For example, it shows that Vegeta was an arrogant ass who tended to overreact, even though he told Nappa not to do that. As soon as he had the slightest bit of difficulty in the battle he went all oozaru, even though it was not only not necessary, but actually ended up being detrimental. We see Kuririn's loyalty and friendship towards Goku. He is utterly terrified and way out of his league. But he goes back to help Goku, not just because Gohan wants to, but because Goku's his friend, and Kuririn is not the sort of person to abandon his friends.

[IDreamtIWasABee]

Yes. There are two de facto rapes in the old series: Freeza bucking Krillin on his horn (the comedy in the old dub and DBZ Abridged only enhances how awful it is), and Majin Boo forcing himself inside Vegetto's body (albeit unsuccessfully, since Vegetto just went, "nah, none of that shit"). The former isn't even subtle.

I'm not saying we need to keep having "non-sexual" or "metaphoric" rape in the fights, but I am saying the new fights are closer to being Pokemon battles than life-or-death fights. Keep grit like that and it doesn't matter if Goku and Vegeta have pink hair or the Pilaf gang show up for gags.

[Captain Space]

Yes. There are two de facto rapes in the old series: Freeza bucking Krillin on his horn (the comedy in the old dub and DBZ Abridged only enhances how awful it is), and Majin Boo forcing himself inside Vegetto's body (albeit unsuccessfully, since Vegetto just went, "nah, none of that shit"). The former isn't even subtle.

Keep grit like that and it doesn't matter if Goku and Vegeta have pink hair or the Pilaf gang show up for gags.

I think you're reading too much into it.

[InfernalVegito]

Yes for me some amount of intensity is definitely gone. But I don't think this necessarily has to do anything with the series being serious or not. Boo arc, for instance, was to me less serious than Freezer or Cell arc but it still was very intense because Boo was scary and his explicit recklessness also demanded determined and intense reactions. I think it depends on the story they want to tell whether it includes more violence and harsher fights and moments. BoG didn't really need it because Beerus wasn't a villain like the three major ones we had before, more like an aloof antagonist who just does his job. They could easily step it up a notch in regards to harshness and intensity when the story and characters require it. It simply depends on the story in my view. Whether it has something to do with new mores and standards preventing this, I don't know.

[Rocketman]

Despite BoG being more true to the spirit of the manga than any of the Toei movies, you mean?

Horseshit. bog is true to the spirit of being a gigantic turd and nothing else.

[Lord Beerus]

Despite BoG being more true to the spirit of the manga than any of the Toei movies, you mean?

Horseshit. bog is true to the spirit of being a gigantic turd and nothing else.

I was expecting witty and concise response from Rocketman... and I was not disappointed.