Cell's quote to Evil Boo is really weird from what I recall. He says "This Boo character seems revved up. Poor Goten, you're really going to regret underestimating us."DBZGTKOSDH wrote:These are different. The way they speak, the speak as if this is the first time they met, not as if they know each other from the past. Yi Xing Long knows who Freeza is because he knows who he is going to fight (because this is a game), but he doesn't say anything like "You'll pay for beating me last time!".
How does Golden Frieza fare off against fighters in GT
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Re: How does Golden Freeza fare off against fighters in GT
Re: How does Golden Freeza fare off against fighters in GT
Omega Shenron specifically talks about all the people Freeza killed, so it's more than just knowing the name of who he's matched up against. Besides, you're missing the point - if you can argue that it's "just a game" when characters recognize other characters that they shouldn't, I can argue that it's just a game when kid Goku says it's been a while when encountering Beerus. You can't selectively ignore other factors that are equally out of place when it's convenient for you.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:These are different. The way they speak, the speak as if this is the first time they met, not as if they know each other from the past. Yi Xing Long knows who Freeza is because he knows who he is going to fight (because this is a game), but he doesn't say anything like "You'll pay for beating me last time!".
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: How does Golden Freeza fare off against fighters in GT
Yi Xing Long speaks as if he knows who Freeza is because it's a game (if this wasn't the case, half of them would just say "who are you?" "I'm [insert character name]"), but SS4 Gogeta doesn't just know who Beerus is, he recalls the events from BoG. That's like having GT Trunks recalling the events of Cell arc in an interaction with Cell, with is something that would never happen. Knowing each other & recalling events that they shouldn't have experienced isn't the same.Marlowe89 wrote:Omega Shenron specifically talks about all the people Freeza killed, so it's more than just knowing the name of who he's matched up against. Besides, you're missing the point - if you can argue that it's "just a game" when characters recognize other characters that they shouldn't, I can argue that it's just a game when kid Goku says it's been a while when encountering Beerus. You can't selectively ignore other factors that are equally out of place when it's convenient for you.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
Re: How does Golden Freeza fare off against fighters in GT
Half of them DO say "Who are you?", so this sort of selective arguing you keep doing is nonsensical. Cell has no business knowing who Buu is, Omega has no business knowing anything about Freeza, and Freeza has no business casually threatening to destroy Beerus. The point is that the developers didn't take continuity into consideration when designing the quotes. This isn't hard to understand.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:Yi Xing Long speaks as if he knows who Freeza is because it's a game (if this wasn't the case, half of them would just say "who are you?" "I'm [insert character name]"), but SS4 Gogeta doesn't just know who Beerus is, he recalls the events from BoG. That's like having GT Trunks recalling the events of Cell arc in an interaction with Cell, with is something that would never happen. Knowing each other & recalling events that they shouldn't have experienced isn't the same.
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: How does Golden Freeza fare off against fighters in GT
Having a hypothetical meeting between 2 characters with each of them knowing who is who isn't the same as having 2 characters recalling events from the past that they were experienced by different characters. You won't see GT Trunks saying "I'll avenge Gohan-san and change the future!" to #17, because it makes no sense. It does make sense for Yi Xing Long to talk about how he relates with Freeza, if he hypothetically knew who Freeza is.Marlowe89 wrote:Half of them DO say "Who are you?", so this sort of selective arguing you keep doing is nonsensical. Cell has no business knowing who Buu is, Omega has no business knowing anything about Freeza, and Freeza has no business casually threatening to destroy Beerus. The point is that the developers didn't take continuity into consideration when designing the quotes. This isn't hard to understand.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
Re: How does Golden Freeza fare off against fighters in GT
What is the reason for Cell knowing who Goten is? And why would he even mention Goten when he is about to fight Evil Boo? It is completely nonsensical really.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:Having a hypothetical meeting between 2 characters with each of them knowing who is who isn't the same as having 2 characters recalling events from the past that they were experienced by different characters. You won't see GT Trunks saying "I'll avenge Gohan-san and change the future!" to #17, because it makes no sense. It does make sense for Yi Xing Long to talk about how he relates with Freeza, if he hypothetically knew who Freeza is.Marlowe89 wrote:Half of them DO say "Who are you?", so this sort of selective arguing you keep doing is nonsensical. Cell has no business knowing who Buu is, Omega has no business knowing anything about Freeza, and Freeza has no business casually threatening to destroy Beerus. The point is that the developers didn't take continuity into consideration when designing the quotes. This isn't hard to understand.
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Marco Polo
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Re: How does Golden Freeza fare off against fighters in GT
My interpreation is that the video game quotes seem to work under the assumption that, before the battle, each character gets to learn a bit about their adversary. Imagine that they get a small card with a few tidbits on their adversary or something. That's how Yi Xing Long can know a few things about Freeza or how SSJ4 Gogeta can know about what Beerus did in BoG.
The Goten thing I think is just a mistranslation.
The Goten thing I think is just a mistranslation.
Re: How does Golden Freeza fare off against fighters in GT
That's exactly the point you keep missing. Everything here is a hypothetical scenario. You keep taking these to mean something more than what they actually are.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:Having a hypothetical meeting between 2 characters with each of them knowing who is who isn't the same as having 2 characters recalling events from the past that they were experienced by different characters. You won't see GT Trunks saying "I'll avenge Gohan-san and change the future!" to #17, because it makes no sense. It does make sense for Yi Xing Long to talk about how he relates with Freeza, if he hypothetically knew who Freeza is.
Kid Goku just says something to the effect of "Long time no see, Beerus!", which at best just implies that the events in BoG hypothetically share some continuity with the GT timeline. Gogeta says "Maybe I can defeat Beerus now!", which suggests that the two characters hypothetically are about to fight each other. If Freeza can threaten to destroy Beerus despite being scared shitless of him in the real storyline, and if Omega Shenron can recognize Freeza AND has knowledge on Freeza that he shouldn't logically have access to in the story, I don't see how any of this proves some shared timeline in Xenoverse. It's all a big "what if?", as in "WHAT IF GT happens after BoG/RoF and characters from both mediums encounter each other?". You're reading way too deeply into this.
Last edited by Marlowe89 on Thu May 07, 2015 1:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: How does Golden Freeza fare off against fighters in GT
But there is no reason for them to do a "what if BoG/FnF take place in the same continuity as GT", especially when the story shows that both BoG & GT take place in the same continuity.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
Re: How does Golden Freeza fare off against fighters in GT
It doesn't show that at all. We already had this discussion from earlier in the thread.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:But there is no reason for them to do a "what if BoG/FnF take place in the same continuity as GT", especially when the story shows that both BoG & GT take place in the same continuity.
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: How does Golden Freeza fare off against fighters in GT
The only thing that could imply that GT is an alternative timeline from the main one is the description of one of the quest that says "go to the timeline where the Ultimate Dragon Balls turned Goku into a child", where the world timeline was only used before to describe Trunks' alternative timeline. This could imply that GT takes place in one of the alternative timelines that were created because of Trunks' time-travels (like the main timeline), but the statement says nothing about how GT relates with BoG. GT taking place in an alternative timeline doesn't mean that BoG never happened in that alternative timeline as well.Marlowe89 wrote:It doesn't show that at all. We already had this discussion from earlier in the thread.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
Re: How does Golden Freeza fare off against fighters in GT
There's also how GT Goku doesn't recognize the Time Patroller in the GT story, even though a post-BoG Goku joins the time patrol in the main story mode and fights right alongside the player during the final battles.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:The only thing that could imply that GT is an alternative timeline from the main one is the description of one of the quest that says "go to the timeline where the Ultimate Dragon Balls turned Goku into a child", where the world timeline was only used before to describe Trunks' alternative timeline. This could imply that GT takes place in one of the alternative timelines that were created because of Trunks' time-travels (like the main timeline), but the statement says nothing about how GT relates with BoG. GT taking place in an alternative timeline doesn't mean that BoG never happened in that alternative timeline as well.Marlowe89 wrote:It doesn't show that at all. We already had this discussion from earlier in the thread.
Re: How does Golden Freeza fare off against fighters in GT
In addition to what Neon Z posted above, the whole point of putting it into a different timeline was to sanction it off into its own little universe, otherwise the game would never have considered it to be under a different continuity to begin with. I just don't see the storyline established in the new movies meshing well at all with GT's, but if we get into a debate about those inconsistencies we'd be delving into something completely off-topic. The best we can do for the sake of a healthy discussion at this point is agree to disagree in regards to BoG happening in GT's past.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:GT taking place in an alternative timeline doesn't mean that BoG never happened in that alternative timeline as well.
Point is, Xenoverse strongly implies GT to be an alternate timeline from the main series. I'll leave it at that.
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shonenhikada
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Re: How does Golden Freeza fare off against fighters in GT
Goku turned into a child dude. His memories of time patrol were erased when shenron reverted him back into a child.Neon Z wrote:There's also how GT Goku doesn't recognize the Time Patroller in the GT story, even though a post-BoG Goku joins the time patrol in the main story mode and fights right alongside the player during the final battles.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:The only thing that could imply that GT is an alternative timeline from the main one is the description of one of the quest that says "go to the timeline where the Ultimate Dragon Balls turned Goku into a child", where the world timeline was only used before to describe Trunks' alternative timeline. This could imply that GT takes place in one of the alternative timelines that were created because of Trunks' time-travels (like the main timeline), but the statement says nothing about how GT relates with BoG. GT taking place in an alternative timeline doesn't mean that BoG never happened in that alternative timeline as well.Marlowe89 wrote:It doesn't show that at all. We already had this discussion from earlier in the thread.
Re: How does Golden Freeza fare off against fighters in GT
Goku turned into a child dude. His memories of time patrol were erased when shenron reverted him back into a child.[/quote]
I don't think that's how it works.
I don't think that's how it works.
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: How does Golden Freeza fare off against fighters in GT
That doesn't mean that the events of BoG didn't happen in a the GT timeline as well.Neon Z wrote:There's also how GT Goku doesn't recognize the Time Patroller in the GT story, even though a post-BoG Goku joins the time patrol in the main story mode and fights right alongside the player during the final battles.
There is a new anime that will probably replace GT, so that could be why they made it a different timeline in XV.Marlowe89 wrote:In addition to what Neon Z posted above, the whole point of putting it into a different timeline was to sanction it off into its own little universe, otherwise the game would never have considered it to be under a different continuity to begin with. I just don't see the storyline established in the new movies meshing well at all with GT's, but if we get into a debate about those inconsistencies we'd be delving into something completely off-topic. The best we can do for the sake of a healthy discussion at this point is agree to disagree in regards to BoG happening in GT's past.
That doesn't mean that the events of BoG didn't happen in the GT timeline. The events from the rest of the anime definitely happened, for example, and the character interactions strongly imply that the events of BoG actually did happen in GT.Point is, Xenoverse strongly implies GT to be an alternate timeline from the main series. I'll leave it at that.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
Re: How does Golden Freeza fare off against fighters in GT
I don't know why you keep repeating points that I've already gone over. They're JUST versus quotes. They don't imply anything. Any interaction that didn't happen in a canonical storyline, manga or anime or otherwise, is completely trivial and should be taken with less than a grain of salt. No amount of overreaching on your part is ever going to change this. To have kid Goku not recognize Beerus at all would probably just confuse a lot of people, but that doesn't mean that the events of BoG necessarily happened in GT's past when a ton of these quotes make little sense to begin with. Even if I took the quote super seriously, it only really suggests that Goku met Beerus at some point in the GT timeline (which for all we know could have been either before the first arc or after the final arc), not that BoG happened, so it's a crapshoot either way.
Also, please stop backpedaling. The original argument wasn't about BoG and GT but whether Xenoverse considers GT to be an alternate timeline - which it likely does. The moment you keep bringing up things that have already been addressed is the moment we go around in circles, and a discussion that doesn't go anywhere isn't a discussion worth having.
Also, please stop backpedaling. The original argument wasn't about BoG and GT but whether Xenoverse considers GT to be an alternate timeline - which it likely does. The moment you keep bringing up things that have already been addressed is the moment we go around in circles, and a discussion that doesn't go anywhere isn't a discussion worth having.
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: How does Golden Freeza fare off against fighters in GT
Then let's just agree that we disagree.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
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Hellspawn28
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Re: How does Golden Freeza fare off against fighters in GT
Yi Xing Long was born from the wish to bring back all of the people killed by Freeza. It makes sense that he knows who Freeza is since the other Shadow Dragons are well aware of the past. Qi Xing Long knows who Babidi and Vegeta are since he was born when Yamucha wish back all of the people that Vegeta killed on that day.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUdmHzD4-hw
Goku still remembers the past in GT after being turn into kid, other wise he would not know who Cell, Dr. Gero and Freeza are in GT. Not to mention he remembers Upa when the Laing Yi Long told that he was born from the wish to bring back Upa's father after Tao kill him. Even Goku reference the Buu saga when he ask Mr. Satan to tell everyone about the Earth dieing from the Black Star Dragon Balls knowing that the people of Earth would listen to him.shonenhikada wrote: Goku turned into a child dude. His memories of time patrol were erased when shenron reverted him back into a child.
Not true. It's in the gameMarco Polo wrote: The Goten thing I think is just a mistranslation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUdmHzD4-hw
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Steven Bloodriver
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Re: How does Golden Freeza fare off against fighters in GT
Very sorry for the super late post, but Frieza is called the Vicious God in some of the video games.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:According to guidebooks & video-games (well, one guidebook, Chozenshuu #4, & one video-game, XenoVerse), BoG/FnF and GT take place in the same continuity. So, Super Baby 1 is stronger than Golden Freeza, and even Whis.
Redgic seems to be stronger as well, since he forced Goku to go Super Saiyan, while Goku could easily beat Freeza in Hell, who should be at least as strong as FnF Freeza.
If that's the case, how did Goku, the rest of the Z-Senshi, and the villains, surpass Kami, Kaio, and Kaioshin? Daimao could kill Shenlong, Goku & Piccolo surpassed Kami in the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai, Kaio admitted that Vegeta & Nappa were stronger than him, and the Super Saiyans & Dabra were stronger than Kaioshin, not to mention that Boo defeated all 5 of them in the past, with 2 of them ending up dead.SpiritBombTriumphant wrote:I assume that Golden Freeza is a God, similar to God Goku and Beerus. Therefore, I think that pretty much any God-level1 character could wipe the floor with any non-God character, Omega Shenron included.
1 This means Dende is not included.
And why would Freeza even be a god to begin with? A god of what?