Complete list of plotholes/continuity issues in the manga?

[Faustus]

For simplicity's sake I'll use "special ki" instead of "God ki" here:
Yes, Beerus happens to be a god (because it's his job to destroy), and yes, he has special ki that can’t be sensed, but those two attributes aren't necessarily coextensive, much less related. Heck, neither Whis nor Goku are gods officially (as in it's not their job), yet they both have special ki. Having special ki doesn't automatically make you a god (as it is usually understood in Dragon Ball), so why should being a god automatically get you this special ki?

Kami, Kaio, and Kaioshin are all gods though, no different from the Hakaishin, as far as we know.

And Super Saiyan God is an actual god. He is stated to be the Kami/God of the Saiyans, just like Dende is the Kami/God of Earth.

But Goku himself isn't actually performing the function of "god", like Kaio and the rest - it's a brand-new form, whereas "god Dende", for example, is just regular Dende on the lookout: it's just his job.

But it was stated in the movie that Goku, a mortal, can't sense Beerus' ki because Beerus is a god, and mortals can't sense a god's ki.

Hmm yeah, I guess this part is a bit problematic. I suppose a distinction between gods whose being a god is their job (Dende, Kaio, Beerus) and gods in some other sense whose ki can't be detected (Beerus, Whis, Goku) would have been useful here, because it seems to me the film has these two concepts somewhat entangled in places.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

I gave a reason to why it's harder to be consistent with a manga than a movie.

No, you made assumptions about how things work.

I believe a movie thread was just made so by all means take that kind of discussion there.

I'm not interested in continuing this kind of discussion. You will keep justifying the manga with all your might, and you will keep bitching about the new stuff with all your might. It's pointless, so lets move on.

For simplicity's sake I'll use "special ki" instead of "God ki" here:
Yes, Beerus happens to be a god (because it's his job to destroy), and yes, he has special ki that can’t be sensed, but those two attributes aren't necessarily coextensive, much less related. Heck, neither Whis nor Goku are gods officially (as in it's not their job), yet they both have special ki. Having special ki doesn't automatically make you a god (as it is usually understood in Dragon Ball), so why should being a god automatically get you this special ki?

But we are told that being a god gives you a special ki. Kaio doesn't say that Goku, a mortal, can't sense Beerus' ki because he is a god with a special ki, or a special god, it's just because he is a god. Same with Super Saiyan God, he is said to be just a god.

But Goku himself isn't actually performing the function of "god", like Kaio and the rest - it's a brand-new form, whereas "god Dende", for example, is just regular Dende on the lookout: it's just his job.

It's not just regular Dende, the Kamis do have special godly abilities, like watching over the whole planet by closing their eyes, or recreating the moon. And yes, while the Super Saiyan God doesn't do the same thing as a Kami of a planet does, he still falls in the same category, even though he is also a special case.

[dbzfan7]

No, you made assumptions about how things work.

Yes cause I'm sure Toriyama farted out a script in a week and sent it to be made into a movie.

I'm not interested in continuing this kind of discussion. You will keep justifying the manga with all your might, and you will keep bitching about the new stuff with all your might. It's pointless, so lets move on.

I am not excusing the manga of it's errors. I gave a reason as to why they exist. That doesn't suddenly invalidate every plot hole or error in the manga.

[Faustus]

Alright thanks, I think I now better understand why you listed it as an inconsistency.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Yes cause I'm sure Toriyama farted out a script in a week and sent it to be made into a movie.

So, you bitch about it because according to you, Toriyama only worked for a week. Makes sense.

I am not excusing the manga of it's errors. I gave a reason as to why they exist.

The reason that plot-holes exist in both the manga & the new stuff is because Toriyama is a forgetful person.

[Dyno]

The reason that plot-holes exist in both the manga & the new stuff is because Toriyama is a forgetful person.

Well, if that is the case, it's about time for him to call for someone to help him with the plot and such, isn't?

[Mystic Tien]

Alright thanks, I think I now better understand why you listed it as an inconsistency.

I mentioned it in a previous page. Kaio and Kaioshin can sense Beerus' energy, it is quite obvious that they are supposed to have the same kind of energy as well to be ale to do so. Not only because they are deities, and in the movie it was stated, that energy of deities can't be sensed by simple mortals, but also because Kaio and Kaioshin specifically were shown to sense Beerus' energy, while no one else did.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Well, if that is the case, it's about time for him to call for someone to help him with the plot and such, isn't?

He had editors when he wrote the manga, he worked with Yusuke Watanabe on the script in BoG, and he had assistants in FnF apparently, seeing the differences between his script & the final product.

[dbzfan7]

So, you bitch about it because according to you, Toriyama only worked for a week. Makes sense.

The reason that plot-holes exist in both the manga & the new stuff is because Toriyama is a forgetful person.

I'm not denying that, but again with the manga there was more time constraints. With the movie he only had to think of the plot. With the manga he had to do plot and draw the whole thing for weekly shonen jump. That makes things more difficult. Production trouble doesn't excuse errors, but it does help explain them.

Toriyama had a week for each chapter or so in the manga. His work was posted in weekly shonen jump was it not? That gives a week to draw everything and tell the story for each chapter or so.

[Mystic Tien]

Well, if that is the case, it's about time for him to call for someone to help him with the plot and such, isn't?

He had editors when he wrote the manga, he worked with Yusuke Watanabe on the script in BoG, and he had assistants in FnF apparently, seeing the differences between his script & the final product.

It was more like Toriyama was editor for Yusuke Watanabe. As Yusuke Watanabe wrote the original script. And Toriyama just changed some things here and there, by this rewriting the whole script.

[Lord Beerus]

The reason that plot-holes exist in both the manga & the new stuff is because Toriyama is a forgetful person.

Well, if that is the case, it's about time for him to call for someone to help him with the plot and such, isn't?

I think Toriyama prefers to do his own thing when it comes to writing stories for Dragon Ball.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

I'm not denying that, but again with the manga there was more time constraints. With the movie he only had to think of the plot. With the manga he had to do plot and draw the whole thing for weekly shonen jump. That makes things more difficult. Production trouble doesn't excuse errors, but it does help explain them.

And with the new stuff, he has to keep them 100% consistent with a 42-volume manga that took him a decade to write & finished writing 20 years ago. Makes no sense for him to make some mistakes, especially when he has admitted to be a forgetful person.

[dbzfan7]

I'm not denying that, but again with the manga there was more time constraints. With the movie he only had to think of the plot. With the manga he had to do plot and draw the whole thing for weekly shonen jump. That makes things more difficult. Production trouble doesn't excuse errors, but it does help explain them.

And with the new stuff, he has to keep them 100% consistent with a 42-volume manga that took him a decade to write & finished writing 20 years ago. Makes no sense for him to make some mistakes, especially when he has admitted to be a forgetful person.

No he doesn't and he's made that very clear. He said so himself he doesn't have to be consistent at all.

It's worth noting that Volume 'F' does have a foreword from Toriyama that talks about how he, as the original creator, has the freedom to avoid worrying about consistencies and changing things from the past.

Here it is, for reference:

Spoiler:

It’s really embarrassing to have this called a “screenplay”. It’d probably be more accurate to say it’s just a memo. It’s simply something I idly dashed off for the staff, just to help explain the flow of the story and the dialogue! Never in a million years did I think it would get published. If any of you are trying to become scriptwriters, please don’t use this as an example!!

I guess you could say that some things are difficult for anyone but the original author to write, because only the original author can freely mess around with what’s already been established. A scriptwriter would get tied up trying not to screw with the original story, so in that respect they’d probably have a harder time messing around with things.

Then there’s the dialogue. The original author knows each character’s personality and backstory, so they can naturally think up dialogue that suits them.

It's worth noting that Volume 'F' does have a foreword from Toriyama that talks about how he, as the original creator, has the freedom to avoid worrying about consistencies and changing things from the past.

Here it is, for reference:

Spoiler:

It’s really embarrassing to have this called a “screenplay”. It’d probably be more accurate to say it’s just a memo. It’s simply something I idly dashed off for the staff, just to help explain the flow of the story and the dialogue! Never in a million years did I think it would get published. If any of you are trying to become scriptwriters, please don’t use this as an example!!

I guess you could say that some things are difficult for anyone but the original author to write, because only the original author can freely mess around with what’s already been established. A scriptwriter would get tied up trying not to screw with the original story, so in that respect they’d probably have a harder time messing around with things.

Then there’s the dialogue. The original author knows each character’s personality and backstory, so they can naturally think up dialogue that suits them.

[Dyno]

He had editors when he wrote the manga, he worked with Yusuke Watanabe on the script in BoG, and he had assistants in FnF apparently, seeing the differences between his script & the final product.

I see. I could say he has worked more with his editors/assistants in Movie 15, seeing by how that movie doesn't have "problems", at all.
Hope the same happens with Dragon Ball S.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

No he doesn't and he's made that very clear. He said so himself he doesn't have to be consistent at all.

I know what he said. I didn't mean he wants to keep it 100% consistent, I meant that the fans want him to be 100% consistent.

[dbzfan7]

No he doesn't and he's made that very clear. He said so himself he doesn't have to be consistent at all.

I know what he said. I didn't mean he wants to keep it 100% consistent, I meant that the fans want him to be 100% consistent.

Which is why in the movie thread I said as much as I'd like him to take more care in being consistent, I do respect he's at least having fun and taking interest again. He's telling the story he wants to tell, no matter what it may or may not do to continuity.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

I remembered another plot-hole in the manga:

• When SS3 Goku fought Fat Boo, Boo used Vegeta's Rapid-Fire Ki Blasts, which was how Goku found out about Boo's Mimicry ability. However, Vegeta never used that technique against Boo.

And another one for FnF to complete the list (though if anyone wants to discuss it, take it to its appropriate thread).

• Shisami was said to be equal in ability to Zarbon & Dodoria, but he could fight evenly with Piccolo 4 months later, without any explanation.

[SaiyanZ]

Perhaps Pan as a fetus going SSJ and helping in Goku's God transformation in BoG? (I know the topic said manga, but from reading the pages I assume we're including canon now)

[One_Instance]

Perhaps Pan as a fetus going SSJ and helping in Goku's God transformation in BoG? (I know the topic said manga, but from reading the pages I assume we're including canon now)

She didn't necessarily go SSJ, she just transferred what little power she had to Goku. And, I assume Videl's energy was given to Goku, as well.

[Dyno]

Perhaps Pan as a fetus going SSJ and helping in Goku's God transformation in BoG? (I know the topic said manga, but from reading the pages I assume we're including canon now)

No. The folks who did the ritual to the Original Super Saiyan God weren't Super Saiyan, if they were... Well... There wouldn't be the legend of the Super Saiyan. A fact that means it doesn't have to be a Super Saiyan to make one to turn into Super Saiyan God.