Would you have preferred Adult Goku in GT?

[ABED]

It was a 5 year skip between the end of Z and the start of GT, not 10.

I'm sure it was 10. Pan was 3 at the end of Z and a teen when we meet her in GT.

English dub only.

I'm basing it off of this http://www.oocities.org/televisioncity/ ... gtanim.htm AND Pan's design is a teenager. Regardless, the time skip isn't dumb.

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

She's 4 at the EoZ, and 9 at BoGT, and 10 at EoGT (pre-100 year time skip)

[Kamiccolo9]

I'm basing it off of this http://www.oocities.org/televisioncity/ ... gtanim.htm AND Pan's design is a teenager. Regardless, the time skip isn't dumb.

It's a 5 year timeskip. The English dub either changed it on purpose or by mistake.

[ABED]

<br abp="688">I'm basing it off of this http://www.oocities.org/televisioncity/ ... gtanim.htm AND Pan's design is a teenager. Regardless, the time skip isn't dumb.

<br abp="689">It's a 5 year timeskip. The English dub either changed it on purpose or by mistake.

Again, not basing this off the dub, hence the link.

Pan doesn't look like a 9 year old and the guy that's trying to ask her out at the beginning of GT looks a little old for a 9 year old.

[Kamiccolo9]

<br abp="688">I'm basing it off of this http://www.oocities.org/televisioncity/ ... gtanim.htm AND Pan's design is a teenager. Regardless, the time skip isn't dumb.

<br abp="689">It's a 5 year timeskip. The English dub either changed it on purpose or by mistake.

Again, not basing this off the dub, hence the link.

Well, the link is probably based off the dub. The original version has a 5 year timeskip.

[ABED]

Well, the link is probably based off the dub. The original version has a 5 year timeskip.

Instead of assuming, click on the link. It predates the dub.

[Kamiccolo9]

Well, the link is probably based off the dub. The original version has a 5 year timeskip.

Instead of assuming, click on the link. It predates the dub.

Then it's just wrong.

[ABED]

Regardless, we're splitting hairs. Even if it was 10 years (which makes more sense given Pan's design) or 5, the long time skip wasn't a dumb idea.

[fadeddreams5]

He met people, just not Goku's friends. It's implied that Goku rarely if ever saw his family during that time. I'm not overly fond of Goku not being with his family in 10 years, but I don't find it out of the realm of possibility that he never took Uub to meet his friends

Oh yeah. I forgot Goku is a bad friend/father for a sec. ;D

His struggles were his training. It's not like Goku or his friends where their biggest leaps were during times of crises. Uub had a ton of natural ability because he was a reincarnation of Buu. What we meet in front of us is just a very strong character . You keep saying "that's even more stupid" and that's not the case at all. How is that more stupid that the gap is large and it consisted of training. All I keep reading is "GT is dumb" and some desperate attempts to justify bashing every little thing including a harmless time skip. It's a 10 year gap where little happened beyond simple training.

Well, we didn't see any of his struggles, whatever they were, which is the point. GT Uub is different from Z Uub. Day and night, yet we never saw one develop into the other. We're just given ~now-strong-Uub~. Did he have a natural ability because of what he is? Is there more to his status as a reincarnation? Was he even the sort of fighter Goku assumed he was? Did he instantly adapt to his training regime? According to GT, "yes, no, yes, and yes, but that's not important; he's done. Who cares about Uub? *FF button* It's Goku time now. Welcome to the grand tour."

There was no need for a 5-10 year gap when there was already a 10 year gap literally right before it.

It's only different in your mind, but not in essence. Uub simply trained for a while. It's the same because there's little of relevance that happens during that time that couldn't either be discussed or shown in flashback for an episode. It was an era of extended peace, no different than the 7 year gap between Buu and Cell. Nothing that relevant happens during the GT gap other than a strong character gets stronger - riveting!

It's not as though placing a story earlier would've meant more story, it would just be a different story.

Why didn't anything relevant happen during that gap? Why was there a period of peace? Why was there a gap? Answer: no reason. In my opinion, that is dumb. I, as a viewer, want to see the interaction of Goku and Uub in real time. There is potential there. I don't want a flashback. That's cheap. Regardless, I got nothing. You don't just introduce a character, hype him up, and literally throw him to the sideline in the next episode. That's dumb.

This discussion started by me suggesting a different story (Re-written Uub, Pan, and Bra traveling, and Adult Goku being possessed by Bebi). lol. I'm not saying I want a little extra addition in GT that showcases those 5 years of training. I'm saying I hate the direction GT went, in general.

[SSJ Human]

I would have turned Gohan back into a kid. Reason for that being that he's the only character who anybody admits to liking when they were younger and I thought Teen Gohan's design was the best out of all his forms.

You could have Goku, Gohan and Pan traveling as a family to get the Dragon Balls. The story would be pretty much the same except I wouldn't have the main group encounter him until they arrive on Earth after searching for the balls.

[ABED]

There was no need for a 5-10 year gap when there was already a 10 year gap literally right before it.

Yes, if the story you're telling requires an older Pan, it most certainly is.

Well, we didn't see any of his struggles, whatever they were, which is the point.

Any of THOSE struggles, we can just as easily see different struggles. I don't see why you think that is so much more important than any other. Uub was an unknown quantity at the end of Z. I'd hardly call it day and night. In GT he simply seems more confident and more mature due to age. None of that can't easily be explained by the simple act of growing up.

"Did he instantly adapt to his training regime?" Not a question that needs answering or a long explanation.

Why didn't anything relevant happen during that gap? Why was there a period of peace? Why was there a gap? Answer: no reason.

Why was there a period of peace during any of the other gaps? You are making mountains out of molehills and finding issues where there are none.

I, as a viewer, want to see the interaction of Goku and Uub in real time.

Which doesn't preclude a timejump.

You don't just introduce a character, hype him up, and literally throw him to the sideline in the next episode. That's dumb.

And you don't push the established main character to the side for a character that was hyped all of three episodes. That's insanely dumb. Sure, the character could've been used better, but you are really reaching for reasons if you think the timeskip is a source of the issue as if that ensures he would be used better. And there's no rule that says you can't sideline a character like Uub. There are a number of effective ways to use the character besides having him be a part of the flight into space. I like the idea of Pan ending up becoming Goku's successor, though not in the body of the show, more like around the conclusion.

[fadeddreams5]

Yes, if the story you're telling requires an older Pan, it most certainly is.

It didn't require an older Pan though.

Any of THOSE struggles, we can just as easily see different struggles. I don't see why you think that is so much more important than any other. Uub was an unknown quantity at the end of Z. I'd hardly call it day and night. In GT he simply seems more confident and more mature due to age. None of that can't easily be explained by the simple act of growing up.

And we didn't see him grow up, which is the problem. He's an unknown to the audience at the start of GT, and they don't bother to explore him at all. In the story they told--which is a flawed and poorly executed one--there was no need because the show was all about Goku.

"Did he instantly adapt to his training regime?" Not a question that needs answering or a long explanation.

If the answer is no, that creates a lot of potential material to explore: humorous moments, the development of his bond with Goku, and we get to see all the sides of the character. We can actually grow to LIKE him instead of being indifferent, as is the case for anyone who watches GT.

Why was there a period of peace during any of the other gaps? You are making mountains out of molehills and finding issues where there are none.

Even though I'm not fond of the gap after the Cell Games, there was no problem with those. The thing is, they occurred after the end of a saga when all knots were tied and the stories concluded. The one before GT happened at the START of an entirely new era.

And you don't push the established main character to the side for a character that was hyped all of three episodes.

It's not if GT was a spin-off sequel. Regardless, it's just a what-if idea. In the end of the day, execution is what matters. GT could have been great with what it worked with too, but the Uub sidelining thing is just one example of how poorly executed the show was, imo.

[ABED]

It didn't require an older Pan though.

It didn't require anything, that's never been the point. But I do think the story required an older Pan. Her being an impetuous teenager (I don't care what anyone says, she doesn't look or act remotely 9/10) makes more sense to get her on that ship.

And we didn't see him grow up, which is the problem. He's an unknown to the audience at the start of GT, and they don't bother to explore him at all. In the story they told--which is a flawed and poorly executed one--there was no need because the show was all about Goku.

There is no problem, only in your mind. He's an unknown and nothing about showing him slightly older prevents the story from exploring that character. The story should remain about Goku, but Uub can play a part,

the answer is no, that creates a lot of potential material to explore: humorous moments, the development of his bond with Goku, and we get to see all the sides of the character. We can actually grow to LIKE him instead of being indifferent, as is the case for anyone who watches GT.

There's always potential material to explore. Yet again, nothing about moving the story ahead a couple years precludes any of this. I'm not indifferent to Uub. He's fine in GT, a perfectly likable character, just not all that distinct or interesting.

Even though I'm not fond of the gap after the Cell Games, there was no problem with those. The thing is, they occurred after the end of a saga when all knots were tied and the stories concluded. The one before GT happened at the START of an entirely new era.

I find this to be a completely arbitrary statement. All story threads were tied up at the end of Z as well. What's the problem of there being the gap between Cell and Buu? What's wrong with 7 years - is there some number of year gap that doesn't bother you?

Uub sidelining thing is just one example of how poorly executed the show was, imo.

Because Uub is SUCH a great character. You REALLY love the idea of Uub.

[fadeddreams5]

Pan being an impetuous teenager is irrelevant to the space mission, tbh. And yeah, she's about 9-10. Bra is younger than that. Another GT flaw...

It's not the gap after Cell Games I dislike; it's the fact that we didn't get to see more of Kid Gohan before being slapped in the face with the new one, who is quite distinct in several ways. I already mentioned all I will on that topic in the other thread. Besides that, no other gap bothers me. I just find the one before GT dumb.

Uub wasn't even given the chance to be anything.

[ABED]

It's another flaw that Bra is younger than Pan?

it's the fact that we didn't get to see more of Kid Gohan before being slapped in the face with the new one, who is quite distinct in several ways

He's different only that he's older and slightly more mature.

Uub wasn't even given the chance to be anything.

The story taking place years after we first meet him doesn't stop him from getting that chance. Man, you really seem to carry a torch for a character that was only in a few episodes.

[fadeddreams5]

Yes, it's a flaw that Bra is younger than Pan, given her characterization and design. It's creepy.

Gohan - Stopped training, more quirky, different design, and changed VA. I personally would have wanted to see more of Kid Gohan from Cell Games. His evolution after that mess. His badass SSJ2 form one more time in an actual saga (not movie). Just personal preference.

Uub didn't get that chance at all though. I don't care about the final product after training; I want to see the flawed character from Z starting his regime and evolving from it. An entire saga could be dedicated to him in that respect without taking away from the other cast at all.

[ABED]

Yes, it's a flaw that Bra is younger than Pan, given her characterization and design. It's creepy.

Which is why I prefer that it's 10 years later, and blame Toriyama not GT if you don't like that she's younger.

Gohan - Stopped training, more quirky, different design, and changed VA.

He's a teenager, Nozawa is still the voice of Gohan, and you don't need the story to take place during the gap to show why Gohan stopped training. It was peace time and he slacked off.

Uub didn't get that chance at all though. I don't care about the final product after training; I want to see the flawed character from Z starting his regime and evolving from it. An entire saga could be dedicated to him in that respect without taking away from the other cast at all.

He wasn't flawed, he was just a scared kid. We've already seen that transition with Gohan. If they did show that, you guys would be complaining that Uub is too derivative of Gohan.

[fadeddreams5]

I like Bra being younger. But GT is set 5 years afterwards, officially, making her 9-11. Funimation just agreed with us on how creepy it feels, I guess.

I wish there wasn't 7 years of peace. Just one arc or saga with Kid Gohan as the hero would have pleased me greatly.

We saw that Uub had stage fright and was nervous of being there, but that doesn't mean he had to be a derivative of Gohan. We really know very little besides what we saw for like three episodes.

[ABED]

I like Bra being younger. But GT is set 5 years afterwards, officially, making her 9-11. Funimation just agreed with us on how creepy it feels, I guess.

I wish there wasn't 7 years of peace. Just one arc or saga with Kid Gohan as the hero would have pleased me greatly.

We saw that Uub had stage fright and was nervous of being there, but that doesn't mean he had to be a derivative of Gohan. We really know very little besides what we saw for like three episodes.

I'm sure that even if the gap hadn't been that long, it still would've been the final arc, and Gohan wouldn't have been the hero ultimately. Goku IS Dragon Ball. Gohan doesn't feel right as the main character of the show.