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People who say that deserve some credit, however they are also falling guilty of generalization.TheMikado wrote:We are not stating Trunks return is fanfictiony YET. We are stating it has the danger to become very fanfictiony if not handled properly.
LightBing wrote:I reassert how superficial such comments are at this juncture. Besides the horrible generalization of fan-fictions, which is always something awful and ignorant to do. Like saying all anime is big eyed girls, in shots which highlight their figures. That's isn't true about Dragon Ball, Berserk and a huge numbers of animes. I don't need to show the problem of generalizations in society.
This is my issue with these statements, they are brainless opinions. Unless of course someone elaborates their opinion. Which rarely is the case, we mostly get one liners.
People who say that deserve some credit, however they are also falling guilty of generalization.TheMikado wrote:We are not stating Trunks return is fanfictiony YET. We are stating it has the danger to become very fanfictiony if not handled properly.
It's not the same, I wouldn't use the word generally for such things. I would say a wild Tiger is likely to kill you, for example, it's an unbiased opinion with some foundation. I agree that usually fan-fictions lack quality, the idea they are bad doesn't come out of nowhere.TheMikado wrote:Wait??? You have a problem with saying "Generally" a wild Tiger will kill you. Or "Generally" a moving car hitting you or jumping off a cliff will seriously injure you?
Or if you want to go the artistic route, is it wrong to say that "generally" books have words in them?? "Generally" rock music utilizes guitar in it?
I don't know none of these things sound obvious at all. Everything we were told about the SSJ transformation was that it was extremely rare, so when a mystery young kid shows up, displays the ultimate transformation of a Saiyan, has a sword and capsule corps Jacket one the first thing wasn't Vegeta hooking up with Bulma especially since they had had little on-screen positive interactions. Trunks was extremely unexpected and new in a lot of various ways. To be honest, his presence in-universe is probably the only reason they Gohan and Vegeta went SSJ so early. Because they now knew it was possible to train and become one. Trunks pretty much literally started the modern SSJ army that we see in the Cell games which no one would have even thought of the previous arc due to the setup of it being a very rare legendary transformation with the last one 1000 years ago.Deathbringer wrote:Everything about Future Trunks has felt like fanfiction since the beginning to be honest.
- He has a cool, "badass" design and everything he does is cool and "badass" in a way unlike most of the other characters, especially with that sword.
- He shows up out of nowhere yet immediately displays that he can use an ability that was 'canonically' only thought to be possible for one person to use
- In his first appearance he defeats the main villain with complete ease
- He's kind of a mary-sue
- He turns out to be the son of 2 characters who had little connection (as in, he feels like he was written by someone who ships Bulma/Vegeta)
- He's from a really overly-dark future timeline where everyone is dead and Goku died from a heart virus even though that's a strange way to kill him off in regards to the way the series usually does things
- Also the androids from the red ribbon army arc being brought back except unlike the frankenstein's monster with a big heart they're killing machines
All that being said don't get me wrong I like future trunks and the android saga but I still think it feels like the most fan-fiction-esque part of the series, although maybe I'm getting the the wrong way round and the android saga was actually the inspiration behind a lot of the things you find in fan fiction, not that I want to generalise people who write fan fiction or fan fiction in general.
I could be wrong, but I don't recall Trunks at all suggesting they do that. He brings up that it's very much what he himself would do if he knew where Gero was, but I don't remember him going 'hey, you guys should do that instead!'.ekrolo2 wrote:Hell, he fails in his debut by trusting the jackasses of the present to do the right thing and kill Gero instead of just realizing they're morons and do it himself.
It's those ruthless Vegeta genes with Bulmas keeping him soft. Real Saiyans would wreck a whole continent if they have to.Gyt Kaliba wrote:I could be wrong, but I don't recall Trunks at all suggesting they do that. He brings up that it's very much what he himself would do if he knew where Gero was, but I don't remember him going 'hey, you guys should do that instead!'.ekrolo2 wrote:Hell, he fails in his debut by trusting the jackasses of the present to do the right thing and kill Gero instead of just realizing they're morons and do it himself.
Granted this is compounded and made funnier, grimly, by the fact that his own mother knew more-or-less where Gero's lab was all along, apparently.
He doesn't suggest they do that, its more of a thing where he has faith they'll do the more pragmatic thing by default. I mean, it IS the kind of thing that's so obvious you'd have to be a complete and utter moron not to go with a plan like that.Gyt Kaliba wrote:I could be wrong, but I don't recall Trunks at all suggesting they do that. He brings up that it's very much what he himself would do if he knew where Gero was, but I don't remember him going 'hey, you guys should do that instead!'.ekrolo2 wrote:Hell, he fails in his debut by trusting the jackasses of the present to do the right thing and kill Gero instead of just realizing they're morons and do it himself.
Granted this is compounded and made funnier, grimly, by the fact that his own mother knew more-or-less where Gero's lab was all along, apparently.
And while I agree with the sentiment....to be fair.....let's look at the cast we're dealing with. Aside from Bulma and Gohan, they are ALL utter morons at this point.ekrolo2 wrote:He doesn't suggest they do that, its more of a thing where he has faith they'll do the more pragmatic thing by default. I mean, it IS the kind of thing that's so obvious you'd have to be a complete and utter moron not to go with a plan like that.Gyt Kaliba wrote:I could be wrong, but I don't recall Trunks at all suggesting they do that. He brings up that it's very much what he himself would do if he knew where Gero was, but I don't remember him going 'hey, you guys should do that instead!'.ekrolo2 wrote:Hell, he fails in his debut by trusting the jackasses of the present to do the right thing and kill Gero instead of just realizing they're morons and do it himself.
Granted this is compounded and made funnier, grimly, by the fact that his own mother knew more-or-less where Gero's lab was all along, apparently.
Cipher wrote:If Vegeta does not kill Gohan, I will stop illegally streaming the series.
Malik_DBNA wrote:"Achievement Unlocked: Rule 34"Scarz wrote:Malik, stop. People are asking me for lewd art of possessed Bra (with Vegeta).
And I still sort of feel the same way I did before in an older thread when this topic was brought up once - I can't imagine Goku, the same Goku who decided to let Vegeta go and the same Goku who for some reason decided to give Freeza another chance too, going along with any plan to go kill an old man who in their timeline hasn't done anything yet (at least, in his own words...he kind of probably already was hard at work at that point, but semantics and Goku never did mix well).As much as Civil War the movie and comic made me regret ever taking an interest in superheroes, this is a fight I'd like to and could see happen. Hell, it damn near did until Goku broke it up.Gyt Kaliba wrote:In retrospect, yeah. But from a real world perspective, that only happens by happenstance of Toriyama having to change the story as he went along. The original intention was that 19 and 20 be the real threat, and thus had they been stopped before even getting to appear - no story.
Looking back on it now though, you do raise a good point. There definitely could have been something done with the 'butterfly effect' even more so, rather than it just kind of happening because it happens. And more could have been done with the disagreement between what Goku wanted to do and what the smart thing to do was, instead of just cow-towing to Goku's whims again, but it is what it is.
...Actually, that does bring up one thought though it's going slightly off topic. There was a different thread about a Civil War-esque idea in DB, and this 'split' definitely could have been used for something like that, but more specifically, it could have given us the one fight I'm amazed never actually happened in any medium, Vegeta (who would want the Androids to come out so he could prove his superiority) V.S. Piccolo (who would be more likely to err on the side of caution if needed by comparison).
True enough, though the idea of them taking the old man hostage and locking him away somewhere is pretty dark too, now that I think of it.Nejishiki wrote:Why did they default to murder? There are more ways to stop somebody aside from killing them but I suppose no one was going to get the chance to discuss that with Vegeta immediately chiming in to agree.
But yeah, I can't imagine Vegeta not opting for any idea that isn't killing at that point in the story, even if they did somehow persuade him to pre-emptively stop the Android problem.Exactly! That's the only thing that makes me able to even remotely live with my Vegeta example. We already know Cell is gunning for his Perfect form, so to get it short-changed by Vegeta doing the smart thing or Trunks succeeding in stopping him from doing the dumb thing, would be narratively disappointing...even if the alternative is rage level inducing of the highest caliber.However, whether it be too much or not enough, we are still bound by narrative rules: Establishing Artificial Humans means that they must appear
Now there's an interesting idea for a what-if, how the Android storyline would play out without Trunks' involvement, but not in the way that we already know of via his own timeline. Would the whole thing with Freeza at the start even still happen? Would Goku simply die from the heart virus and things proceeded more or less how they did but without everyone else dying, and instead finding a way to bring Goku back or just saving the day themselves; or would the heart virus be something that progressively gets worse the more he fights, at least for a time, thus finding a way to keep him in the action but weakened without entirely 'shelving' him. There's a myriad possibilities as to how that would all work out, and it wouldn't have to throw Yamcha/Bulma's relationship down the toilet to make a place for an additional Saiyan either.ekrolo2 wrote:I'd have just cut out the whole time travel thing entirely. I like Future Trunks as a character but I think the Androids would've worked considerably better as a sudden threat along with the heart virus.That and it would've made the characters in both timelines look considerably less obnoxiously dumb.
