Why do some have a dislike of the climax of the Zamasu/Black arc?

[SupremeKai25]

I prefer a weak explanation than a plothole. If there's a way to headcanon something away then I'll do it.

Why weren't Grand Priest and Merus around in the Future multiverse? They got themselves erased.
Why wasn't Jiren around? He died of a virus like Goku (it's a timeline set 20 years into the future, so much could happen in 20 years).
Why wasn't Broly around? He either died on that wretched wasteland or Zamasu never located his isolated little world.
Why wasn't Moro around? Zamasu blew him up along with the rest of the Galactic Patrol and their prisoners.

Better a weak explanation than a plothole like "Why didn't the Grand Priest avenge his children and kill Zamasu if he's so strong?"

[PurestEvil]

1. Vegetto is retconned to only last an hour outside of Supreme Kai's (I have no problem with this, in fact it fixes a plot hole from DBZ)

I don't have a problem with this, either. The supposed explanation in DBZ was kind of dumb, considering it was just Goku's conjecture.

2. Future Trunks summons energy to form a Spirit Bomb using his sword, somehow without Goku or King Kai ever showing him how to do one.

Trunks did not even SEE what a damn Genki Dama looked like, so he could not even mimic it. Besides, I believe it is one of those techniques that has to be taught by an expert or something.

3. Trunks' entire timeline gets erased, so all the kids he was trying to protect, the world he saved since killing 17/18 and Cell...is now gone too. So that timeline had a little over 10 years of peace before being destroyed entirely. Trunks seeing Gohan as he is heading off acknowledges that he failed to protect his world/timeline. In addition to that Trunks/Mai travel to an earlier timeline where they already exist in, so now they exist with doubles of themselves in the same universe.

It was a cheap and unwarranted ending that tried to force the audience to get emotional and was poorly executed. It was completely unwarranted and a was a terrible outcome for Trunks' character that he did not earn. It was the most emotionally and intellectually unsatisfying ending I have ever seen, worst episode of DBS.

[precita]

Trunks timeline was pretty much done. The small handful of humans and Android 8 or whatever were probably the last humans alive. I'd imagine less than 100 humans were still around at that point scatttered around the globe.

I don't see why people are so angry about it's outcome. Trunks is a tragic character by default, and he and Mai got to live at least. I don't see why it matters his world is gone. He lost everyone he ever cared about prior to it.

[SupremeKai25]

Trunks timeline was pretty much done. The small handful of humans and Android 8 or whatever were probably the last humans alive. I'd imagine less than 100 humans were still around at that point scatttered around the globe.

I don't see why people are so angry about it's outcome. Trunks is a tragic character by default, and he and Mai got to live at least. I don't see why it matters his world is gone. He lost everyone he ever cared about prior to it.

Yeah, that's what I said earlier. That shithole was hopeless no matter what.

I don't think people understand that this throng was all that was left of the human species, and it could fit entirely into one ruined subway section:



How are 30 civilians, some of which are elderly, going to repopulate an entire world and rebuild all the destroyed cities (so basically every city)? When Black first attacked, people were STILL rebuilding from the Androids. They were doomed either way.

As well, Future Trunks said that the vast majority of humanity was wiped out by Black right at the beginning, and when the military tried to confront him, they were also obliterated. There's a scene where Black incinerated entire CONTINENTS in one second:



Yeah, I'm kind of sorry for Trunks (not really), but no amount of friendship is ever going to fix that.

[PurestEvil]

Trunks timeline was pretty much done. The small handful of humans and Android 8 or whatever were probably the last humans alive. I'd imagine less than 100 humans were still around at that point scatttered around the globe.

I don't see why people are so angry about it's outcome. Trunks is a tragic character by default, and he and Mai got to live at least. I don't see why it matters his world is gone. He lost everyone he ever cared about prior to it.

You say the word "tragic." I do not think it means what it think you means.
A true tragic character is a character who does eventually have a demise, but partly due to their own faults or mistakes. In a tragic story, this character would make some mistakes that lead them down a path of misery. In the end (usually involves death), the audience would be able to understand that the demise was somewhat warranted but still feel sorry that the character wound up like that.

EVERYTHING bad that had ever happened to Trunks was because of EXTERNAL forces. He DID NOT do anything that would bring misery into his timeline, he did EVERYTHING he could have and EVERYTHING right to prevent that. This is not a tragic story, this is a pathetic story (as in a story purely reliant on the audience's pity, not that the story is sloppily written).
The point about Trunks' character was not so he would be fucked over and be constantly sad, it was originally to be like a symbol of hope (HOPE!!!). Because of how much he suffered, he made himself determined to eradicate the terrors of the androids, Cell, and Zamasu. Can't exactly be a symbol of hope if he FAILS, can he? THIS is the MAIN reason why so many fans (including myself) were pissed.

Besides, if those handful of humans are so trivial as you make it out to be, why would the show bother showing us how much they mean Trunks (rhetorical question, it's a part of the pathetic story-telling). With your defeatist logic, do you think that the Buu saga ending with everyone dead and Buu killing everything because the Earth was destroyed would be a good ending?

[Koitsukai]

I prefer a weak explanation than a plothole. If there's a way to headcanon something away then I'll do it.

Why weren't Grand Priest and Merus around in the Future multiverse? They got themselves erased.
Why wasn't Jiren around? He died of a virus like Goku (it's a timeline set 20 years into the future, so much could happen in 20 years).
Why wasn't Broly around? He either died on that wretched wasteland or Zamasu never located his isolated little world.
Why wasn't Moro around? Zamasu blew him up along with the rest of the Galactic Patrol and their prisoners.

Better a weak explanation than a plothole like "Why didn't the Grand Priest avenge his children and kill Zamasu if he's so strong?"

Oh, I'm all for personal explanations rather than plotholes, but the GP would never avenge his children because he knows he can't do that, and there's no way around it, and as a UI master(maybe the founder of the art?) I highly doubt he'd get all bloodthirsty and lose his cool. It'd be like buying a stool and a rope.

I'm against the stupid OOC defense, because characters are allowed to do whatever they want, they are supposed to be people, not programmed robots or chess pieces with just two or three movements, Vegeta's development is full of so-called OOC decisions, but with the GP I can make an exception because he sort of is a designed lifeform or something alike. So I can't accept he'd lose his mind and virtually kill himself without even accomplishing something(he'd have at least one shot before he gets erased, and Black would be no more if that were the case), or Zamasu and Black knowing and boasting about it.

I have no problem with your headcanon about Broly, Moro and Jiren (although he may have angered Vermoud somehow and got himself hakai'd by surprise), but about GP and Merus, I don't think it had anything to do with Black.
The GP could've been erased for some other reason, while Whis said there is no other way for them to die besides self-erasure, I wouldn't say Zeno can't fuck them up just yet. I mean, he made them, or at least he made the GP, he should be able to unmade them(we don't know what happened to the angels of 6 erased universes). Or maybe he is just there, alone, in his neutrality, in a barren multiverse. And Merus, thanks to the Chaos Theory might've been sent to some other universe where Zamasu stayed like 10 minutes and left.

I can think of a reason why the GP didn't tell Zeno about Zamasu, because he knew what Zeno would do, maybe erase every universe and start over.

[The Undying]

The point about Trunks' character was not so he would be fucked over and be constantly sad, it was originally to be like a symbol of hope (HOPE!!!).

I disagree.

Trunks isn't a symbol of hope. Quite the opposite, actually; he's a symbol of tragedy, or more appropriately the adoption of hope in the face of tragedy. His timeline is doomed for destruction from the start, and from the original series through Super, every "solution" he attempts results in additional problems and more dire consequences for his own world. His would-be friends are already dead. His mother meets her end because of him. His actions in Dragon Ball do allow the cast as we know them to live, Goku's sacrifice notwithstanding, but their era wasn't yet in need of "hope" - Trunks's era was. In Super, it still is mostly Trunks's. He writes that word on the time machine specifically because of his need to maintain that outlook in an otherwise shitty life.

It's actually the actions of the cast that manage to lend Trunks his sense of optimism. It's Bulma who builds the time machine, it's Gohan who defeats Cell, it's ultimately Goku that allows Zamasu to perish through Zeno (although it does result in his timeline getting erased). When Trunks accomplishes anything on his own, it's secondary to his constant relying on others throughout DB/DBS and wishing for the best; it's the reason he travels to the past in the first place. It's only because of them that he's able to obtain hope in invariably hopeless circumstances. He doesn't just leave with Mai to live in copycat world because "it's the right thing to do", he does so because it represents a sense of promise for the world he failed to protect.

Hope!! is indeed the theme, but people are misinterpreting what that means. Trunks's role is to cling to hope, not produce it.

[PurestEvil]

Trunks isn't a symbol of hope. Quite the opposite, actually; he's a symbol of tragedy, or more appropriately the adoption of hope in the face of tragedy.

Most certainly the latter is more appropriate, I had just made myself clear why Trunks' story is not tragic. Even taking that into account, that would still make him a sort of "symbol of hope".

His timeline is doomed for destruction from the start, and from the original series through Super, every "solution" he attempts results in additional problems and more dire consequences for his own world. His would-be friends are already dead.

-The Future Trunks that we know of is not the same as the first Trunks who stopped the androids. Technically speaking, THIS Future Trunks did not cause Cell to go back in time, and in fact had prevented it. I would also like to add that Cell would have been taken cared of if Vegeta wasn't being such an idiot.
-Zamasu was going to exterminate all the mortals regardless of Trunks going back in time. There were absolutely no additional problems with Trunks getting Goku and Vegeta to fight the two Zamasus, and all the problems that did arise were caused by Goku's fucking stupidity.

It's actually the actions of the cast that manage to lend Trunks his sense of optimism.

And how, I must inquire, were these cast members called to action in the first place? Had Trunks not made contact with the cast, the Z-fighters would never have begun preparing against their threats and Goku would have died from heart failure. I must also remind you that because he trained alongside Vegeta, he was able to kill the androids and Cell in his own timeline. That should damn well make him a producer of hope.

Now, I would like to argue against this ending (and arc as a whole) with another point, with all this talk of themes: The Black arc's ending is a forced thematic clash against Dragon Ball as a whole.

I am NOT saying "Dragon Ball should be all gumdrops and rainbows! Keep the status quo!" Rather, I would have been more open to the grit and bleak atmosphere of the Black arc had it been written more competently. However, if we are to establish any sort of "overarching" theme of Dragon Ball, it would be that self improvement of oneself will yield the most good (not necessarily JUST in the "physical" sense, but also a development of morals and values). This theme has applied to almost all of the main characters, from Goku (who went from a naive country boy to a still naive but now experienced martial artist by conquering over the many evils in the Earth), to Piccolo (literal demon to essentially a mentor of young fighters), to Gohan (young boy who was scared of fighting to an adequate fighter who will step in during times of need), to Vegeta (ruthless serial killer to ruthless family man who learned of his limitation by having his ego get trampled on), and especially TRUNKS (who in the face of suffering persists to do anything he can to save his world). All of these characters have gotten stronger as fighters AS WELL as people, and have collectively proved themselves successful over the years.

Now, I will say that Zamasu was a BRILLIANT concept for a villain. He was the inverse of the very theme just described: he got stronger because he became more evil. His character development was the best part of the whole arc.
The reason why I think the ending was so poor was because of a few reasons, the most significant of which is that it was utterly anticlimactic. Zamasu gets this random ass power up a la Cell and infects the whole universe with himself, and Zeno just destroys him in with with the waves of his hand. This completely undercuts the conflict between Trunks and Zamasu by having it handwaved by this God. With Trunks having a positive moral progression and Zamasu having a negative moral progression, the conflict should have concluded with a duel between them (yes, they did have one in the anime, but it led to nothing, so it doesn't even matter). However, with the way this ending was executed, there is no thematic conclusion, all the conflicts that occurred have been erased and negated.

Spoiler:

(This ending is made even worse by Trunks and Mai going off to another timeline to be with his mother again; by not letting them stay in the present timeline and the arc affect the future of the story and characters, the writers proved themselves to be FOR keeping the status quo without significant changes in the end, except for what colors Goku and Vegeta can change their hair into.)

Honestly, the only thing that would have made this ending any better without altering the present events is if Trunks was killed when Zamasu infected the sky. It would have actually concluded the conflict between the two and would have been a better fate than a life of severe mental scars.

[The Undying]

-The Future Trunks that we know of is not the same as the first Trunks who stopped the androids. Technically speaking, THIS Future Trunks did not cause Cell to go back in time, and in fact had prevented it. I would also like to add that Cell would have been taken cared of if Vegeta wasn't being such an idiot.
-Zamasu was going to exterminate all the mortals regardless of Trunks going back in time. There were absolutely no additional problems with Trunks getting Goku and Vegeta to fight the two Zamasus, and all the problems that did arise were caused by Goku's fucking stupidity.

I'm quite aware that the Trunks we're familiar with isn't the same Trunks killed by Cell, but I'm talking about how the story conveys consequences.

Cell is able to go back in time because of the other Trunks returning to his era with the time machine, and Zamasu's threat as Goku Black (and moreover, learning of the Super Dragon Balls) happens because of Trunks's actions in saving Goku and creating a peaceful timeline for Earth. The story outright acknowledges this, and in Super, it's even presented as the reason that tampering with time in the first place is a strictly forbidden act; it results in all sorts of unintended problems and eventually snowballs into an unstoppable one that doomed the multiverse entirely in Trunks's era.

That's precisely what makes Trunks a tragic figure. His world is destined to meet its end, but in trying to change those events by interfering with the flow of time, he unknowingly creates even bigger issues - particularly the one that Zamasu presents.

And how, I must inquire, were these cast members called to action in the first place? Had Trunks not made contact with the cast, the Z-fighters would never have begun preparing against their threats and Goku would have died from heart failure.

Yes, but that's not directly affecting Trunks's world or converting his mindset to theirs. Hope, as outlined in the context of the narrative, is only necessary because of the situation that Trunks endures. None of the heroes in their newly splintered timeline suffer the same fate. "Clinging to hope in the face of tragedy" isn't even in the equation for them because they never have to go through that situation thanks to Trunks.

To reiterate, "Hope!!" is written to remind and symbolize what Trunks himself must hold on to. It's because of Vegeta and the rest of the cast that Trunks obtains the strength necessary to kill the Androids and Cell when he returns to his era. The underyling theme of Super's arc isn't about being some miraculous beacon for others, it's about the importance of having hope.

But again, I completely understand why all this would fall flat if you're watching the TV series, which by all accounts goes back and forth with itself on what exactly that represents.