Dragon Ball Super: Manga Chapter 79 - Official Discussion Thread

[MCDaveG]

I think Toyotarou needs to chill out with the amount of panels he draws for small details like a zoom in on a character or someone's reaction.

Spoiler:

It just takes up so much space to tell such a basic expression. Less is more when it comes to Dragon Ball's manga.

It kinda sucks when we get a lame chapter since this manga only releases once a month. Ah well, hopefully next month is better.

It's such a big difference when you compare Toriyama's simple panelling to Toyotaro's mess. Sometimes feels like he wants to set a new record for how many panels he can put on a page. This one from chapter 77 is something else:

Spoiler:

That scene could even have been told in 3 panels. Got 8...

Yeah, we discuss it almost everytime though. Toriyama showed just the important things and every time I open the classic manga, I am blown away how he can depict an iconic pose or attack in one simple panel that is pretty much self-explanatory and stands out.
Watching the anime afterwards, it is series of iconic panels intertwinned with "filler" animation and just Gogeta standing with his hands folded or his "Let's do it" poses are iconic. Also, the savy approach of anime because of scarce source material and recycling and keeping some scenes longer that they should be only underlined this.

I miss this not only from Toyo's manga, but the Super series as well. It looks like Dragon Ball, but it's missing something and I must say that it is the touch of Toriyama being involved more. Super is fast paced animation (sometimes looking like hell and off model) where nothing stands out as much as in the series before – and I wonder, if GT isn't close to Z in feel because it went right after, in the same era, with pretty much the same team.
Toyo's manga is pretty much a storyboard, but it shouldn't be and I wonder why it is. Is he not that confident? Or he isn't really trained in the craft? Damn, Toriyama also wasn't born as manga artist, it was probably his talent of adapting and utilizing resources in coherent way. Also, his panels are scarcer, but bigger, having the art making bigger impact.
With Toyo, I sometimes get lost on the page and also feel dumbed down myself, as I just follow linear visual storyline of one page of someone doing a stance, to make an attack on the next one, or just running into the woods, looking over his shoulder in five panels.
Haven't seen this in Batman neither for example.
But it is too late for Toyo to grasp the idea, that panels are supposed to be carriers of the mood/place setting, main action points and dialogue. Not an animation storyboard.

If I could write down Toriyama's panelling as interjections, it would be: "Bam, Bam, Bam!" and cliffhanger.
Really miss the old times, I remember when manga was released in US Shonen Jump to read for free online, chapter by chapter.
I started to read it around Cell arc, before I even saw the arc itself, with the crazy transformations of Trunks, Vegeta and Goku training in room of spirit and time and man, I was hooked.

Toyo's excels in the art department for sure, he can imitate Toriyama pretty well and what he does better than master himself nowadays, is coming up with new designs, which definitely take heavy inspiration of Toriyama's golden 90s and 00s era of his sharp "realism", as Toriyama himself went from his elaborate designs back to more cartoony look, that is even more simplified than when he worked on Slump.
I still liked the Jaco manga and his take on Bardock was let's say interesting, but in all honesty and admiration I have for Akira Toriyama, who is one of my biggest idols in a world of art, quite unnecesary.

[Cipher]

Yeah, we discuss it almost everytime though. Toriyama showed just the important things and every time I open the classic manga, I am blown away how he can depict an iconic pose or attack in one simple panel that is pretty much self-explanatory and stands out.
Watching the anime afterwards, it is series of iconic panels intertwinned with "filler" animation and just Gogeta standing with his hands folded or his "Let's do it" poses are iconic. Also, the savy approach of anime because of scarce source material and recycling and keeping some scenes longer that they should be only underlined this.

I miss this not only from Toyo's manga, but the Super series as well. It looks like Dragon Ball, but it's missing something and I must say that it is the touch of Toriyama being involved more. Super is fast paced animation (sometimes looking like hell and off model) where nothing stands out as much as in the series before – and I wonder, if GT isn't close to Z in feel because it went right after, in the same era, with pretty much the same team.
Toyo's manga is pretty much a storyboard, but it shouldn't be and I wonder why it is. Is he not that confident? Or he isn't really trained in the craft? Damn, Toriyama also wasn't born as manga artist, it was probably his talent of adapting and utilizing resources in coherent way. Also, his panels are scarcer, but bigger, having the art making bigger impact.
With Toyo, I sometimes get lost on the page and also feel dumbed down myself, as I just follow linear visual storyline of one page of someone doing a stance, to make an attack on the next one, or just running into the woods, looking over his shoulder in five panels.
Haven't seen this in Batman neither for example.
But it is too late for Toyo to grasp the idea, that panels are supposed to be carriers of the mood/place setting, main action points and dialogue. Not an animation storyboard.

If I could write down Toriyama's panelling as interjections, it would be: "Bam, Bam, Bam!" and cliffhanger.
Really miss the old times, I remember when manga was released in US Shonen Jump to read for free online, chapter by chapter.
I started to read it around Cell arc, before I even saw the arc itself, with the crazy transformations of Trunks, Vegeta and Goku training in room of spirit and time and man, I was hooked.

Toyo's excels in the art department for sure, he can imitate Toriyama pretty well and what he does better than master himself nowadays, is coming up with new designs, which definitely take heavy inspiration of Toriyama's golden 90s and 00s era of his sharp "realism", as Toriyama himself went from his elaborate designs back to more cartoony look, that is even more simplified than when he worked on Slump.
I still liked the Jaco manga and his take on Bardock was let's say interesting, but in all honesty and admiration I have for Akira Toriyama, who is one of my biggest idols in a world of art, quite unnecesary.

Although I like Super for what it is, I don't disagree with any of this. Toriyama excels at a sense of speed and weight, and it's partially down to just how deliberate his panel choices are during action scenes. It's kind of shocking how much he doesn't show during movement, for how animated the final result tends to feel.

There are times Toyotaro hits that, but just as often he's likely to inadvertently slow his action by adding extra movement or camerawork (so to speak) panels. I think, and this tends to get lost sometimes, on its own, Super reads fine, and remains an above-average action series, in the grand scheme, especially in its latter half. You can follow its action panel to panel and get a good scenes of flow and movement, even when the pages are crowded. But it does tend to trip over its own foot here and there when it could really just afford to cut, and I also think it's true that Toyotaro seems not to consider the page as an entire page--panels as merely key moments and important mood-setters, like you said. It reads competently but isn't hitting the highs it could if it were more considered.

Which isn't a deal-breaker for me, and I accept series having the quirks and flaws of their artists behind them. Nor is it as if Super hasn't had craft improvements over its run. But there are obvious and sometimes frustrating ways in which it isn't getting quite as close to Toriyama (a tall order) as it might just with some different choices. Ah well! It feels close enough of a piece with DB that I still enjoy it as a sequel, but it's certainly not Toriyama's DB on a craft level.

[Noah]

Well, Gon never met Meruem so who knows

Mate, do you know how irresponsible this is? People don't come in a Dragon Ball discussion forum to be spoiled about other series.
You might say: "Oh, but that was an anime that ended 8 years ago!"

It doesn't matter, if you wanted to make an analogy about the protagonist not meeting a villain, you could have used the series we discuss HERE as an example: Goku never met Commander Red in the RR arc.

Please don't do it again.

[LoganForkHands73]

Well, Gon never met Meruem so who knows

Mate, do you know how irresponsible this is? People don't come in a Dragon Ball discussion forum to be spoiled about other series.
You might say: "Oh, but that was an anime that ended 8 years ago!"

It doesn't matter, if you wanted to make an analogy about the protagonist not meeting a villain, you could have used the series we discuss HERE as an example: Goku never met Commander Red in the RR arc.

Please don't do it again.

Nah, I'd have said that the manga arc in question ended nearly 11 years ago, totally fair game /s.

In all seriousness, sincerely sorry for the spoiler, I'll use the spoiler box next time. That said, was it necessary to necro an old thread just to tell me this, you could have sent me a DM if you had a problem with it.