Dragon Ball Super: Manga Chapter 80 - Official Discussion Thread

[TKA]

I dunno man, I don’t have a problem at all with the latest chapters of Dragon Ball Super—a fighting story—just being those fights. They’re drawn cool, I like to see the techniques, and to me it’s a lot of fun. It’s also a good payoff after many chapters of this arc being exposition dump and setup, building up to this conflict on planet cereal. Granolah himself has been an entertaining fighter to watch/read, with all his assassin skills combined with the dragons power-up.

I still hope Frieza makes some kind of appearance this arc.

Dragonball is decidedly not a story about fighting. It is a story that involves fighting, but if Dragonball is *about* any one particular thing, it’s about personal growth, self-improvement and self-empowerment.

This is none of that. This is just chapters upon chapters devoted to characters punching and kicking, and every couple of pages revealing they have been holding back.

I dare you to go read the original manga. The fights in those are interspersed with so much other shit. Toriyama doesn’t care about who can punch the best, or the proper technique to throwing a kick, or how creatively someone can shoot a ki blast—what matters is how the characters grow, and what epiphanies they come to. This isn’t Hajime no Ippo or Jojo’s Bizarre Adventure.

The reason Toei fails, the reason Heroes fails and the reason this arc is failing is because these people seem to be under the impression that Dragonball is about fighting and transformations. (“Fail” here refers only to artistry. Commercially, they’re all killing it, and that’s all that matters with these franchise offerings, unfortunately.)

[Koitsukai]

Toyo's art is really great, and keeps getting better, there are some panels that are just beautiful, he always delivers in that department, no matter what twitter trolls say, he is just struggling with pacing a story, probably hindered by the monthly schedule, that makes him have to use the same cliffhanger over and over and not moving the story forward when it needs to.

I doubt, if he'd be telling this story at his own pace, with nobody telling him how or when to do things, this would be so slow.

To me this isn't a bad story, it's just awfully told.

[OrangeBanana]

So another chapter of people beating the crap out of one another with a transformation sprinkled in...You know, if you told me that this was fan made I'd probably believe you, but that is being a little bit harsh, fan made stuff is better than this. Honestly I don't even know what to say, this chapter and the preceding couple were just boring and its not the fact that its people constantly fighting. One Punch Man is sometimes constant fighting for chapters upon end, but in that Manga the fights are written and drawn in an amazing way which makes each fight feel and look unique, while the fights in DBS are basically all carbon copies that you cannot even remember. This arc had some great potential but the writing really took a nose dive a couple chapters back.

[TKA]

If by “fan made stuff”, you mean shit like Dragonball Multiverse, then I must profoundly disagree with you.

Let me be clear. This arc is bad, and the writing right now is trash. But this is still leaps and bounds better than whatever Toei, or Heroes or what the typical western fan would come up with. It’s a very easy bar to clear.

For one, there’s only been 1 new transformation, which is considerable restraint considering what could happen under a worse writer.

I’m just annoyed that the story could be so much better than what it is.

[PurestEvil]

I reeeeeeeally hope the manga rebounds in the next few months leading towards DBS:SH. I need some return on my investment in this damn manga...

[Soba Mask]

God I do not care at all about this... Only the Bardock stuff

Just one simple question which I doubt will ever be answered. Can Elec and the others unlock their powers once getting rid of their laces

[Chuquita]

I think if the artwork was more stylish, or closer to early 90's DB with its sharper lines, these battle visuals would be more appealing. The art is too round for the type of story they're telling here, imo.

[FortuneSSJ]

Toyotaro needs to calm down with his speedlines!

Disappointed we didn't see the beginning of Bardock vs Gas, but hopefully we will still see more. So far seems like Bardock only won because Gas lost control. If that's all it's disappointing since it was just luck...

Gas awakening is similar to how Goku unlocked SSJ4. Turn out in a mindless beast and then come to your senses.

Seems like all Heeters can transform if their pendants are removed. That's cool. Gas doesn't feel like the final boss. The best twist would be if there's actually 5 like Bojack crew and the unrevealed 5th is the real leader and the strongest.

Hopefully the next chapter isn't titled Gas vs Granolah, Part 3...

[kemuri07]

Gas and Granolah fight.

Granolah is back on the ropes and Gas seems invincible.

We've been doing this song and dance for the last 3 months. This chapter is garbage. This arc is terrible.

But ignoring all that, it's so creatively-bereft to do another "Person gets huge when mad, loses themself, calms down and gets slimmer" gimmick right after Broly, Kale, various super saiyan transformations, Cell, etc. Jesus Christ. This is the nadir of the manga thus far. The Moro stuff was bloated and for most of its run went nowhere, but at least there was potentially interesting stuff going on; different locations, different characters, different arc structure. The last 7 or so months have been this same group of characters doing the same thing over and over. This is nothing. This is nonsense.

This is shit.

Even artistically, Gas' transformed state looks like stuff we've seen so many times in this franchise. If he's meant to be berserk, and it's meant to be a form that wouldn't stick around, at least do SOMETHING other than jacked screaming guy. Holy balls.

Just awful all around.

I didn't hate it quite like you did, but I absolutely agree with most of this. This is DBS spinning its wheels, and I'm starting to question whether or not this is leading to anything meaningful. There is no transition, no change. And while I have applauded the manga for going all in with the technique trumps power in the past, its not doing much of anything with it. It's just strong guy punching strong guy; it's everything people mock Dragon Ball for.

Yeah...I think the moment that I kinda gave up on this is when Gas goes "Broly." Its insane that in a single franchise, we have two knock-off versions of a single character. Its kinda crazy how this arc opened so strong, and now I'm hoping it ends so hopefully whatever comes next is more entertaining.

[Jinto]

Damn...This chapter was intense ! The relationship between Elec and Gas was good but the art, THE ART carried this chapter. Did Toyotaro finally find the path to enlightenment ?
Bigger panel, better paneling, the double spread, better pacing, He just need to clean up those speedline and add some better environnement.
Now I want to see more !

I like how relevant Vegeta's question is, Gas was supposed to be stronger than Bardock even without berserk mode and now we now Bardock defeated him while in Berserk mode so HOW THE HELL DID HE DEFEAT HIM ?

[Grimlock]

I don't know how long they can keep cramming stuff in this period of the series.

From an in-universe perspective, a lot. From Granola saga until Movie 2, you have there a one-year gap, approximately. From Movie 2 until the tournament, another two-year gap. They can cram a lot in those gaps and we would have to endure it for years (in real life) to come.

From an out-universe pespective, depends. At this point I'd say it will depend on viewers response. If we continue to be silent about this, maybe they'll keep us stuck in this time frame. I feel like if we were more vocal and they knew about it, they probably would have done something by now. I don't know.

[Koitsukai]

I really don't know if every loose end will be addressed, being so close to the end and the pacing like this and all.

- What's up with the 2-set DB that has no cooldown and a dragon that pretty much leads the way when it comes to getting your impossible wish granted?
- Bardock vs Gas (another fight, yay)
- Why the hell Bardock kept the Heatas screwing Freeza over a secret?
- Eleccs' plan (maybe we'll never get to see it)
- Eleccs' 10 questions (who cares by now, not me)
- Eleccs' wish details (although now I think he is not going to betray Gas or screw him over)
- Godot Freeza
- UI Goku fighting for real.

[Mr Baggins]

I think if the artwork was more stylish, or closer to early 90's DB with its sharper lines, these battle visuals would be more appealing. The art is too round for the type of story they're telling here, imo.

I actually liked the art and action itself. Given Toyotaro's creative use of panels and spreads, Granolah's clone diversion, the insane sense of speed conveyed by Gas's Broly-ripoff form, Granolah literally getting his face caved in, etc., there's a lot of memorable visual hooks to latch on to here. I can't remember shit about last month's action aside from some kunai and a re-used plot beat about getting accustomed to one's power, so this is certainly a step up in my book.

The problem, as myself and others have mentioned, is the almost complete absence of a real story component to this fight. We've currently clocked in at over 100 pages of this and just about the only thing we've gleaned from it is a teensy bit of development for the Heeters' internal relationship. I challenge anyone ITT to pick out any random 100 pages of the original manga, even if it's mid-fight, and compare. The difference is truly stark. This is closer to what GT does with its storytelling (or lack thereof), if anything.

I'll be frank: I'd be very surprised if this battle leads anywhere compelling, just given how narratively disconnected Gas is from the rest of the story. I'm basically ready to move on to the next arc.

[Nistarkail]

I have a question for you. Besides the Saiyans and Frieza's race, the second best in the universe is the Heeter's one without any shadow of doubts.

Do you think that Elec will come to fight one day and surely transform like a super-villain or not? I imagine that he relies on techniques and he's more skilled than his brothers. I always have the impression that he has a B plan for everything, included the fact that he's hiding his power in order to be the mind behind every thing.

[Chuquita]

Artstyle is definitely subjective. Toyo's good at what he draws, but I'm just not a fan of his artstyle.

Storywise, yeah I've been and continue to be bored with this, and if it weren't free I wouldn't be reading. Why am I still reading this manga? There's still occasionally something fun in there.

[Lord Beerus]

Random and scattered thoughts of Chapter 80:

- More fighting... okay.

- More fighting... okay.

- A gaudy transformation... okay

- More fighti-- Alight. I'm sorry. This is just boring as sin. You would never be under the impression that this arc is heading towards its endgame with how much the plot has just ground to a halt. I said this last month and my opinion is even more valid now... Toyotaro paces Dragon Ball Super like it's in a weekly publication as supposed to it being in a monthly publication. He needs to use the 45-50 pages he has per month a lot more efficiently.

A nothing character like Gas getting this much time in the spotlight -- with no sign of it ending -- is criminal when this arc has at most 10 chapters left to work with. It's especially even more confusing when all this focus does NOTHING to develop Gas' character and actually make me give a shit about this conflict with Granolah. All these flashy techniques being displayed by Gas do nothing for me because the story has given no reason to be intrigued by what he can provide in the narrative beyond being associated with the central antagonist.

I hate to bring up comparisons... but it had has to be done. Toriyama in the original manga, even during its more long-in-the-tooth periods, had this uncanny ability to effortlessly weave in character beats that subtlely developed characters and moved the story forward in a briskly paced fashion. If Toriyama was writing and drawing Gas fighting Granolah, this fight would last no more than 15 pages. Yet Toyotaro has spent over 100 pages on this fight alone... and it's still going. That's insane for a conflict that literally the equivalent of Vegeta's battle with Zarbon on Namek.

The original Dragon Ball manga was/is so much more than just spectacle. With this arc and the previous arc of the Dragon Ball Super manga, I can't help but feel that perhaps Toyotaro has fallen into the same trap that Toei do when it came to storytelling for original Dragon Ball content: focusing on flash rather than substance.

Several chapters in this arc and the previous arc are just totally devoid of any kind of storytelling, with the main focus being who can punch the hardest or transform the quickest. This is not to say that the basis of some chapters of the original Dragon Ball manga didn't have this kind of DNA in its narrative structure (Hell, the Freeza arc pretty much invented this kind of storytelling for the franchise) but it's handled with a lot more nuance or is done in a tongue-in-cheek manner like for decent portions the Majin Boo arc. And Toyotaro hasn't really displayed to have that kind of storytelling ability (yet?) in the Dragon Ball Super manga.

This arc had SO much going for it at the beginning and it's just degenerated in embodying the worst tropes associated with Dragon Ball... endless empty physical conflicts with transformation sprinkled in as a poor substitute for actual character development and story progression. It saddens me how much this arc has fallen off a cliff after such a strong opening.

Overall thoughts... yet another chapter with little to no plot progression. *sigh*

[Alruneia]

I really don't know if every loose end will be addressed, being so close to the end and the pacing like this and all.

Depends on whether the arc will end in time for the movie or not, really. Because if it will, then April's chapter is the last one (releasing the day before the movie in Japan), giving us a solid... three chapters to finish up, so a lot of things will be left unexplained and unanswered. Otherwise, we could potentially have until the end of the year, with only the December chapter containing the next arc, so that's a lot more time to work with. But at the moment I'm assuming it'll end in April.

- What's up with the 2-set DB that has no cooldown and a dragon that pretty much leads the way when it comes to getting your impossible wish granted?

At the moment this part has just been an excuse to have fights happen, so I'm sure it'll be explored more later. Maybe not until the next arc, but surely at some point. I hope.

- Bardock vs Gas (another fight, yay)

I don't think we'll get to see much more of it. Goku will discover how to deal with Gas and then there'll be some kind of "That's just like what Bardock did" reveal of some kind, I think.

- Why the hell Bardock kept the Heatas screwing Freeza over a secret?

...the what now? Keeping it secret from who? Frieza himself? If so, then Bardock keeping his head down and not saying anything would probably be the best move anyway. I don't think this is a huge issue that especially needs to be addressed.

- Eleccs' plan (maybe we'll never get to see it)

I feel like if he has one, then Elec's plan will be the next arc. That's what I'm expecting the conclusion of the Granolah arc to be, a kind of cliffhanger that leads to a continuation arc like an Elec arc or something along those lines. The stuff you crossed out about his 10 questions is also part of why I think that's what the next arc will be.

- Godot Freeza

Yeeeeah he's not appearing this arc. Not in any meaningful way anyway. His presence hasn't been necessary to the plot we've been given so far, for better or for worse, and I don't think it will be until the next arc (if that).

- UI Goku fighting for real.

Isn't that kinda what we're heading towards? UI Goku vs Horny Horned Gas? At this point, especially if there really are only 3 chapters left, I think that's what we're getting. Maybe not UI Goku at full strength, though, unless Monaito (and Granolah if he has a healing technique now?) can pull out some quick healing while Vegeta gets turned inside out. Something like that, anyway.

[ZodiacBeast]

This has all the enjoyment of a filler arc/non-canon movie.

The first half of the arc was ok, I guess, even if someone's OC...I mean, Granollah, was able to become the strongest in the univerese with only two Dragon Balls with no cooldown, but lately it feels like things have been going downhill every chapter.

If the next chapter is mostly just fighting it's going to be very irritating. The monthly release schedule is killing any hype I have for Super.

[LoganForkHands73]

Good artwork as usual, though it's unfortunately placed in this boring slog of a battle. Throughout this chapter, I was finding myself baffled at Toyotaro's creative decisions. Gas turning into Broly with Hulk pants has to be one of the lamest things that could've possibly happened, and once again, the story hasn't really progressed meaningfully. Elec finishing off with "my little bro is strongest in the universe FOR REALSIES now" is beyond risible. It's like a parody. As much as the story lacked great momentum before, it's all but ground to a dead halt now. It's quite disheartening that Toyotaro has seemingly dropped the (dragon)ball so hard here... thoooough the Moro arc managed to pull me back after a long slouch. It's not impossible to end this well, but Toyo certainly isn't making it easy for himself with all these uneventful chapters.

Granola's fighting style seems to have changed since he ditched the jacket. Suddenly, he's all about those high-flying kung fu kicks which I don't think suits his character. From earlier chapters, I got the impression that Granola is a utilitarian fighter who doesn't showboat too much. There's still some of that marksman energy in these chapters, at least. Maybe the Saiyans' fighting styles have rubbed off on Granola somewhat.

It's cute that Bardock's battle-damaged look is more or less identical to his original anime design. Toyotaro loves him some Bardock. The idea of him fighting Gas is still wanky as hell to me, honestly. I quite liked some of the setpieces here, like Gas simultaneously blasting through the clones and later using a variation of Doomsday's "punch through the earth and out the other side" super move from Injustice. Hulked-out Gas does feel like a Western comic book henchman breaking into a manga.

[Xeogran]

I find it suspicious Oatmeel didn't speak at all this chapter despite all that happened. I also noticed it got punched off from Granolah's eye again, even twice this chapter - once during the clone part and later during Gas' berserk' form rampage. Wonder if this will have any repercussions