GT or Daima

[GokuHater]

If you were expecting a training session from Daima's SSJ4, your expectations were unrealistic. That is not how new forms are traditionally attained.

Training and hardship were exactly how new forms were reached in the original series (aside from Goten and Trunks). This handout of forms and power ups is a modern DB thing.

SSG = Goku had to get massacred by Beerus in SSJ3 before getting this form

Nope. Goku getting massacred had nothing to do with unlocking SSJG. These are two unrelated events. Even Goku's training on King's Kai isn't tied to this.
The only catalyst at this point in the story is the ritual. And at this point it was the ritual that did anything regardless of what strength would Goku possess.
Even in the movie Goku isn't very pleased by the fact he "recieved" that power.

SSB = Training with Whis

Again, no.
There was nothing foreshadowing a new transformation or an ability to "put god ki on SSJ" during this training.
The training was bent on controlling or perfecting god ki so we can all interpret it that way but on the end SSJBlue was an asspull without foreshadowing and even a proper explanation of what it is.
On the other hand originally it was a movie transformation so it could have been all about spectacle.

SSR = Training for 1 year in Goku's body[\quote]
Maybe... But because we didn't see any of it, the point is moot.
Anyway, Rose was meant to schock the audience so it's not a big deal.

SSB Evolved = Vegeta had to watch an entire Saiyan species get erased right in front of his eyes[\quote]
Where did you get that from?
Nothing like that was even a bit mentioned in the story. Vegeta' just went "I am doing things my way!" and BOOM, new tranformation. This is a definition of an asspull.

Ultra Instinct = Training with Whis for 4 arcs[\quote]
Fully agree this one. UI is the Supers form that is properly foreshadowed and earned.
And because of this, it feels very satisfying.

[GokuHater]

If you were expecting a training session from Daima's SSJ4, your expectations were unrealistic. That is not how new forms are traditionally attained.

Training and hardship were exactly how new forms were reached in the original series (aside from Goten and Trunks). This handout of forms and power ups is a modern DB thing.

SSG = Goku had to get massacred by Beerus in SSJ3 before getting this form

Nope. Goku getting massacred had nothing to do with unlocking SSJG. These are two unrelated events. Even Goku's training on King's Kai isn't tied to this.
The only catalyst at this point in the story is the ritual. And at this point it was the ritual that did anything regardless of what strength would Goku possess.
Even in the movie Goku isn't very pleased by the fact he "recieved" that power.

SSB = Training with Whis

Again, no.
There was nothing foreshadowing a new transformation or an ability to "put god ki on SSJ" during this training.
The training was bent on controlling or perfecting god ki so we can all interpret it that way but on the end SSJBlue was an asspull without foreshadowing and even a proper explanation of what it is.
On the other hand originally it was a movie transformation so it could have been all about spectacle.

SSR = Training for 1 year in Goku's body

Maybe... But because we didn't see any of it, the point is moot.
Anyway, Rose was meant to schock the audience so it's not a big deal.

SSB Evolved = Vegeta had to watch an entire Saiyan species get erased right in front of his eyes

Where did you get that from?
Nothing like that was even a bit mentioned in the story. Vegeta' just went "I am doing things my way!" and BOOM, new tranformation. This is a definition of an asspull.

Ultra Instinct = Training with Whis for 4 arcs

Fully agree this one. UI is the Supers form that is properly foreshadowed and earned.
And because of this, it feels very satisfying.

Beast Gohan = Gohan had to watch his best friend/mentor get nearly killed in front of him

Which had an the exact emotions as me watching my dog going through the room.
But sure... Let's say that is the reason of unlocking it.
Still, a plot reason is not the same as foreshadowing or earning it.
Nothing in the story suggested Gohan is trying to achieve a new power or transformation.
Quite the opposite - his mystic form was meant for no further transformations.

Literally every single new form was unlocked either through training or hardship or both. Not one single new form was unlocked by the Elder Kaioshin pulling something from Goku's ass.

Yes but that's still not it.
Having a plot reason for something to happen isn't the same as building up to it.

SSJ didn't feel this way because Goku trained for 7 days in space.
SSJ felt this way because it was first mentioned in the Saiyan Saga, because we got pieces of very little information about it, because Frieza stated to be afraid of it, because Veggie had an obsession with it, because we had a silver hairing of Goku already being one.

This for me at least, means a well built up tranformation, regarding Super UI fits nicely into that but nothing more unfortunately.

[perucho1990]

Its going to be an interesting discussion comparing Goku unlocking SS4 in GT with the way he transformed in Daima(it has gotten an overwhelming response on social media)

[Yuji]

Its going to be an interesting discussion comparing Goku unlocking SS4 in GT with the way he transformed in Daima(it has gotten an overwhelming response on social media)

I'll take storytelling over spectacle. I'll quote myself from the episode thread:

It's a transformation that calls back to the Saiyan origins of the protagonist in an arc based around the sins of the Saiyans. It's a transformation achieved by recovering a piece of his anatomy he had lost, and fusing two forms together - it makes both sense why this form was never achieved before, and why it can be achieved now. It's also achieved after Goku recovers his reason from the Oozaru feral mind out of love for his granddaughter, in a nice parallel to him killing his own grandpa accidentally in the same mindless state as a child. It is a powerful form because of all the thematic weight and narrative significance the form has.

This is just there. It feels like cynical Heroes marketing. There's nothing about this form that feels coherent with this story.

[Vegeta th3 4th]

Its going to be an interesting discussion comparing Goku unlocking SS4 in GT with the way he transformed in Daima(it has gotten an overwhelming response on social media)

GT's was light years ahead of what Daima did. Goku's transformation in GT had an actual story behind it, while in Daima it was given to him for free with 0 build up and 0 story significance. A few lines here and there would've gone a long way to build up anticipation for it. For example, have him discuss the possibility of something beyond Ssj3 with Vegeta, only for the later to say it's unlikely considering how hard 3 is to reach and control. Have Neva heal him early on for whatever reason (food poisoning for example) and tell Goku he senses a great potential waiting to be unlocked. Finally, have Neva actually die as a result of unlocking the form, stating that he will no longer stand by while his realm is dragged through the mud. Would this be better than GT's ? No, but at least it would be something more than "here's an early Christmas gift kid!).

[nineko]

Daima, for better or worse, made more sense than GT ever did. GT was basically a series of plot holes, one after another, so my vote goes to Daima.

And I can say more.

Daima's main problem, in my opinion, is that Super exists. I think I would have liked Daima a lot more if Super didn't exist. Daima is a natural progression from Z, going as far as featuring an extended recap of the Buu arc in the first episode. I would have accepted Daima as a continuation from Z if they gave it to me back in the day. Sure, as I just mentioned in the other topic, Daima had lots of slow episodes and useless things like the Mega planet, but it can be a fun experience overall, GT never did much for me. Daima would only need minor tweaks to be thoroughly enjoyable, GT would need a complete rewrite (more about this below).

However, it's hard for me to rank Daima as the best sequel of Z, because I actually liked Super.

Last thoughts: each of the three series had its ups and its downs, I would love a "Daima-Super-GT Kai" which tweaks details here and there to make everything fit, taking the best from each world, with proper plot, proper pacing, proper animation. It's not going to happen, but a man can dream...

[Goe]

Thanks to all of you for voting. I have actualized the results. English is not my first language and some posts are long so if I have mistaken in something, please tell me and I'll fix it

[Vegeta th3 4th]

Thanks to all of you for voting. I have actualized the results. English is not my first language and some posts are long so if I have mistaken in something, please tell me and I'll fix it

Can I change my vote to Daima...please...

[Goe]

Thanks to all of you for voting. I have actualized the results. English is not my first language and some posts are long so if I have mistaken in something, please tell me and I'll fix it

Can I change my vote to Daima...please...

Done. I don't know if you have changed your view or I had a mistake when counting. If is my fault, I apologize

[Vegeta th3 4th]

Thanks to all of you for voting. I have actualized the results. English is not my first language and some posts are long so if I have mistaken in something, please tell me and I'll fix it

Can I change my vote to Daima...please...

Done. I don't know if you have changed your view or I had a mistake when counting. If is my fault, I apologize

I definitely changed my mind after the two final episodes. Thanks a lot.