Dragon Ball Daima: Episode 13 - Official Discussion Thread

[JulieYBM]

Episode #13 feels like the closest thing that Daima has had to a traditionally structured 52 episode anime's average episode, so I could absolutely see it fitting better there. The problem with Daima is every other episode feeling weird and disjointed because they don't really have proper climaxes and character arcs that progressively develop through focus sub-plots, like you would see in any other series.

Even the choice of 20 episodes just feels like a really weird choice of episodes. Daima really should have been cut down to 13 episodes and restructured.

[Chuquita]

Agreed. I can see 13 episode long version working well.

I would've enjoyed this episode more if Daima were a 52 episode series and not a 20 episode one.

Weren't you just postulating a few posts ago that we could be heading into the third act? Neither of us have the faintest clue of how this is all going to wrap up.

If you don't like the episode, cool, but the episode count should have no bearing on its quality. That's doubly true of these other remarks about last week's break, which is not going to matter months from now when everyone can binge it.

Yeah, I do think we're about to head into the third act.

Of course plot-wise I have no idea other than everyone gets their bodies back to normal since it's a midquel and the status quo has to be restored for EoZ.

I think it's only 20 episodes both because that's what's been rumored and it matches with Herms' dakuten observation with the next episode previews' red letters.

I meant I'd be more forgiving of filler when there's a longer episode count.

It's none of my business who binges Daima after it's over.

[AliTheZombie13]

It should've absolutely been much shorter than this, yes.
I don't doubt for a second the theory that the web series was half the length it is now, but got changed to a full-length anime somewhere down the line, then they decided to fill the remaining runtime with all these "Slam on the breaks! 5-minute-long Demon Realm Lore Dump Time!" moments. Unless somebody makes an edited version of it without these, I don't see myself returning to this anime after it's over.

[Mr Baggins]

I'm happy for y'all, I'm simply not one of you.

Cool. Again, that's fine.

Not everything is for everyone. I would contend there's not much artistic value in any product that tries to appeal to every single person and sensibility.

The observation being that, apparently, people who don't enjoy Daima are way too plot-focused and should just enjoy the self-contained adventures Daima brings?

No, the observation being that people expecting it to be a plot-focused series are going into it with faulty expectations. This is evident from some of the posts here. I didn't say "everyone should just enjoy it", I specifically said it wasn't made for people that preferred a more serialized format. Not everything is for everyone.

Where I draw the line is people going into these threads "Omg, look at all these people saying they're not liking Daima, they must be expecting the anime to be the best thing ever or something, they must not come into the show knowing it's episodic or something, they must be making things up or watching a different show! Why don't you guys like it?"

Man, the fact that you just made up a whole mocking paragraph that nobody even wrote illustrates what I was saying in the part of my post that you ignored at first. You are, again, completely disregarding the context of what's being addressed here. This is a very bad no good disingenuous strawman.

If you're going to try and refute the arguments being made, particularly the ones about Daima's format, at least attempt to understand them. Questioning the reasoning behind certain criticisms isn't even remotely the same as "questioning people as to why they don't like" a thing. That could not be a greater deflection from the point if it tried.

This is exhausting to address, nevermind read.

[AliTheZombie13]

Man, the fact that you just made up a whole mocking paragraph that nobody even wrote illustrates what I was saying in the part of my post that you ignored at first. You are, again, completely disregarding the context of what's being addressed here. This is a very bad no good disingenuous strawman.

If you're going to try and refute the arguments being made, particularly the ones about Daima's format, at least attempt to understand them. Questioning the reasoning behind certain criticisms isn't even remotely the same as "questioning people as to why they don't like" a thing. That could not be a greater deflection from the point if it tried.

This is exhausting to address, nevermind read.

Admittedly, English ain't my first language and I'm not very good with words. But the point I was trying to make is right there:
My expectations for Daima are simply that it be fun or interesting, and it's failing for me.
I have watched other shows with similar structures to Daima, and I didn't have a problem with them.
So maybe, the problem is just that Daima is bad at providing a self-contained episodic structure as well.
This, of course, is only my opinion.

[FinalForumPodcast]

Is episode 13 anything super special? No.

Was I fairly easily swayed by the adorable terror that is kaiju hamsters? YUP.

[TechExpert2021]

Unless somebody makes an edited version of it without these

Ala the FUNimation/Ocean/Saban dub of DBZ except it's the same show (Japanese version, no replacement music, no dialogue rewrites, no other nonsensical dub changes) but with no lore dumps and rewritten plot and dialogue to make them more sense and to remove plot holes (not Americanizing DB Daima mind you).

[AliTheZombie13]

Unless somebody makes an edited version of it without these

Ala the FUNimation/Ocean/Saban dub of DBZ except it's the same show (Japanese version, no replacement music, no dialogue rewrites, no other nonsensical dub changes) but with no lore dumps and rewritten plot and dialogue to make them more sense and to remove plot holes (not Americanizing DB Daima mind you).

I meant more like Kai, but yeah.

[JulieYBM]

One or two compilation films would be so much better than this twenty episode format lol. There just isn't enough going on in each episode to justify twenty episodes.

[AliTheZombie13]

One or two compilation films would be so much better than this twenty episode format lol. There just isn't enough going on in each episode to justify twenty episodes.

Agreed.

Like, okay, I get it. Daima is supposed an unambitious good vs. evil story where the good guys beat the shit out of the bad guys, but did it really need 20 episodes for that? 13 episodes so far and this show has done NOTHING with any of its 8 main characters.

[JulieYBM]

One or two compilation films would be so much better than this twenty episode format lol. There just isn't enough going on in each episode to justify twenty episodes.

Agreed.

Like, okay, I get it. Daima is supposed an unambitious good vs. evil story where the good guys beat the shit out of the bad guys, but did it really need 20 episodes for that? 13 episodes so far and this show has done NOTHING with any of its 8 main characters.

There are too many false attempts at drama by just inserting scenes where Gokuu beats up mooks without any challenge. Gokuu isn't hitting any walls, and it's just making the story continue to be flat. What's worse, they're not letting Glorio and Panzy take on the role of growing. I know I use this example a lot, but when Pokemon wasn't allowed to have Satoshi grow, they introduced deurtagonists like Haruka and Hikari to grow and change. That's the kind of role that Panzy and Glorio should be playing. Heck, even Shin. If the main character—Son Gokuu—has to remain stagnant, then at least allow the secondary cast to change.

It's all just too flat and it wouldn't be so noticeable if we were not now staring down a 330 minute and growing runtime.

[AliTheZombie13]

There are too many false attempts at drama by just inserting scenes where Gokuu beats up mooks without any challenge. Gokuu isn't hitting any walls, and it's just making the story continue to be flat. What's worse, they're not letting Glorio and Panzy take on the role of growing. I know I use this example a lot, but when Pokemon wasn't allowed to have Satoshi grow, they introduced deurtagonists like Haruka and Hikari to grow and change. That's the kind of role that Panzy and Glorio should be playing. Heck, even Shin. If the main character—Son Gokuu—has to remain stagnant, then at least allow the secondary cast to change.

It's all just too flat and it wouldn't be so noticeable if we were not now staring down a 330 minute and growing runtime.

Yes, this. One thing the adventure arcs the original Dragon Ball & GT had that made them interesting was moral dilemmas and internal conflict. The characters were still overpowered and easily defeated whatever was on their way, but what made the story interesting was how they dealt with it.

"We can't just beat the shit out of Oolong, we need to find the missing girls."
"We need to help these guys gather the Dragon Balls or I won't get my fear of women away."
"Let's take Oolong along. I mean, he's a piece of shit, but he might be useful down the line."
"We can't just leave this planet and leave the people suffering under an oppressive system, it's just not right."
"We can't treat Giru like garbage, robots are people too."
"Maybe Pan is too young to be here, let's go back and replace her."

In stark contrast, there is no conflict in Daima, no moral dilemma. Everything has been sailing smooth since the second episode. Even Shin's suspicion of Glorio has faded away and now the show is kinda just stalling until the very end.

[TechExpert2021]

One or two compilation films would be so much better than this twenty episode format lol. There just isn't enough going on in each episode to justify twenty episodes.

Agreed.

Like, okay, I get it. Daima is supposed an unambitious good vs. evil story where the good guys beat the shit out of the bad guys, but did it really need 20 episodes for that? 13 episodes so far and this show has done NOTHING with any of its 8 main characters.

There are too many false attempts at drama by just inserting scenes where Gokuu beats up mooks without any challenge. Gokuu isn't hitting any walls, and it's just making the story continue to be flat. What's worse, they're not letting Glorio and Panzy take on the role of growing. I know I use this example a lot, but when Pokemon wasn't allowed to have Satoshi grow, they introduced deurtagonists like Haruka and Hikari to grow and change. That's the kind of role that Panzy and Glorio should be playing. Heck, even Shin. If the main character—Son Gokuu—has to remain stagnant, then at least allow the secondary cast to change.

It's all just too flat and it wouldn't be so noticeable if we were not now staring down a 330 minute and growing runtime.

Seconding this.

I felt like Daima was always putting Son Goku in the spotlight without allowing other characters like Pansy, Glorio, and Kaioshin to take that spotlight, making Daima feel like the "Goku Show".

[nineko]

One or two compilation films would be so much better than this twenty episode format lol. There just isn't enough going on in each episode to justify twenty episodes.

I suggested more or less the same thing just a couple of pages ago, and it made me look like an heretic. Glad to see I'm not the only one who would welcome a condensed (or "Kai'd", to use my own words) version. The very fact that every other episode needs to use an extended introduction just to meet the required runtime is telling.

[JulieYBM]

One or two compilation films would be so much better than this twenty episode format lol. There just isn't enough going on in each episode to justify twenty episodes.

I suggested more or less the same thing just a couple of pages ago, and it made me look like an heretic. Glad to see I'm not the only one who would welcome a condensed (or "Kai'd", to use my own words) version. The very fact that every other episode needs to use an extended introduction just to meet the required runtime is telling.

I'm already going to Hell for being queer, I might as well go to Hell for hating a Japanese cartoon that airs at 11:40PM on Friday nights. <3

[Zephyr]

Just rewatched this ep with the wife, and honestly? I enjoyed myself more than I did when rewatching Episode 12.

[Majin Buu]

One or two compilation films would be so much better than this twenty episode format lol. There just isn't enough going on in each episode to justify twenty episodes.

I suggested more or less the same thing just a couple of pages ago, and it made me look like an heretic. Glad to see I'm not the only one who would welcome a condensed (or "Kai'd", to use my own words) version. The very fact that every other episode needs to use an extended introduction just to meet the required runtime is telling.

The character interactions and world building are two of the things I like about Daima and I'm sure a lot of that would be on the chopping block in a theoretical Kai version for the sake of pacing. The show has kept me entertained, I've found stuff to enjoy about it week to week, so the idea of having less of it doesn't appeal to me since much of what I like about it would likely be gone in this version; and that would make the show feel empty and less enjoyable overall to me.

[kemuri07]

There are too many false attempts at drama by just inserting scenes where Gokuu beats up mooks without any challenge. Gokuu isn't hitting any walls, and it's just making the story continue to be flat. What's worse, they're not letting Glorio and Panzy take on the role of growing. I know I use this example a lot, but when Pokemon wasn't allowed to have Satoshi grow, they introduced deurtagonists like Haruka and Hikari to grow and change. That's the kind of role that Panzy and Glorio should be playing. Heck, even Shin. If the main character—Son Gokuu—has to remain stagnant, then at least allow the secondary cast to change.

It's all just too flat and it wouldn't be so noticeable if we were not now staring down a 330 minute and growing runtime.

Yes, this. One thing the adventure arcs the original Dragon Ball & GT had that made them interesting was moral dilemmas and internal conflict. The characters were still overpowered and easily defeated whatever was on their way, but what made the story interesting was how they dealt with it.

"We can't just beat the shit out of Oolong, we need to find the missing girls."
"We need to help these guys gather the Dragon Balls or I won't get my fear of women away."
"Let's take Oolong along. I mean, he's a piece of shit, but he might be useful down the line."
"We can't just leave this planet and leave the people suffering under an oppressive system, it's just not right."
"We can't treat Giru like garbage, robots are people too."
"Maybe Pan is too young to be here, let's go back and replace her."

In stark contrast, there is no conflict in Daima, no moral dilemma. Everything has been sailing smooth since the second episode. Even Shin's suspicion of Glorio has faded away and now the show is kinda just stalling until the very end.

Boy, you're really stretching the concept of "moral dilemmas" here aren't you.


I do find it funny that Zombie is just going to keep flying that flag of "No GT is awesome, actually. No seriously, stop laughing" and Julie...seems to just want to watch any anime other than this.


This episode was a miss for me, but I'm still enjoying myself with Daima.

[JulieYBM]

There are too many false attempts at drama by just inserting scenes where Gokuu beats up mooks without any challenge. Gokuu isn't hitting any walls, and it's just making the story continue to be flat. What's worse, they're not letting Glorio and Panzy take on the role of growing. I know I use this example a lot, but when Pokemon wasn't allowed to have Satoshi grow, they introduced deurtagonists like Haruka and Hikari to grow and change. That's the kind of role that Panzy and Glorio should be playing. Heck, even Shin. If the main character—Son Gokuu—has to remain stagnant, then at least allow the secondary cast to change.

It's all just too flat and it wouldn't be so noticeable if we were not now staring down a 330 minute and growing runtime.

Yes, this. One thing the adventure arcs the original Dragon Ball & GT had that made them interesting was moral dilemmas and internal conflict. The characters were still overpowered and easily defeated whatever was on their way, but what made the story interesting was how they dealt with it.

"We can't just beat the shit out of Oolong, we need to find the missing girls."
"We need to help these guys gather the Dragon Balls or I won't get my fear of women away."
"Let's take Oolong along. I mean, he's a piece of shit, but he might be useful down the line."
"We can't just leave this planet and leave the people suffering under an oppressive system, it's just not right."
"We can't treat Giru like garbage, robots are people too."
"Maybe Pan is too young to be here, let's go back and replace her."

In stark contrast, there is no conflict in Daima, no moral dilemma. Everything has been sailing smooth since the second episode. Even Shin's suspicion of Glorio has faded away and now the show is kinda just stalling until the very end.

Boy, you're really stretching the concept of "moral dilemmas" here aren't you.


I do find it funny that Zombie is just going to keep flying that flag of "No GT is awesome, actually. No seriously, stop laughing" and Julie...seems to just want to watch any anime other than this.


This episode was a miss for me, but I'm still enjoying myself with Daima.

it's true, i want to watch Evangelion for the thirteenth time.

But no, really, I haven't watched Dragon Ball outside of Dragon Ball Daima and the two Dragon Ball Super movies since Dragon Ball Super ended and probably haven't watched the original three series in, like, fifteen years. I'm mostly watching queer cinema now or reading queer fiction these days. I just posted a Letterboxd review for Queer (2024)! When I'm not reading or viewing stuff, I've been doing a ton of writing and doing community stuff locally. I swear, I'm trying to post less, I don't want this shit to be my personality lol.

I thought the preview for Episode #14 looked good, though, and I did quite like the directing in Episode #13, I just think Dragon Ball Daima as a whole fails to do very basic things. I don't want to talk about Dragon Ball GT, because I don't want to talk about something that I've thought sucked for, like, twenty-five (25) years now.

This post is getting longer than I wanted to make it, so I'll leave off with one last bit: i do a lot of shit outside of dragon ball fandom and that shit comes back with me when i look at any work of art and form an opinion on it. i just hope i'm not talking about how much i think daima kinda just overall sucks in eighteen months to five years from now.

[AliTheZombie13]

Boy, you're really stretching the concept of "moral dilemmas" here aren't you.

You're right, the heroes should've just beat the shit out of the villagers and steal the Dragon Ball.
I mean, they're not super heroes, right? Shame on Toriyama, appealing to the Goku Super Hero syndrome!

I do find it funny that Zombie is just going to keep flying that flag of "No GT is awesome, actually. No seriously, stop laughing."

"No, Daima is awesome, actually. No, seriously, stop laughing."
GT ain't great, but its first 13 episodes were certainly more watchable than this. I'm sorry I have taste.

Now, speaking seriously: Daima has some pretty damn glaring issues with its storytelling, whether you want to admit or not. The lack of serious conflict, significant character development, personal struggle or even planning are big ones. At certain points, I forget Dende has been kidnapped, or that the heroes want their adult bodies back, given how little they care. The fact that this show had years of pre-production and somehow couldn't come up with a compelling story is astonishing.

Give it a few years, no one is gonna remember this show. It's gonna fall into obscurity worse than Pre-Saiyan DB.