Z fighter vs. ...

Pedro The Hutt · Post by **Pedro The Hutt** » Sun Mar 18, 2007 2:34 pm

You mean with just regular Superman it's not Byebye universe? o.o What with half of the things he gets up to that you can see on superdickery. >.>;;

Phenomenol · Post by **Phenomenol** » Sun Mar 18, 2007 2:38 pm

Humpski wrote:Every version of Superman there could defeat Goku with the exception of "Golden Age". I'm just being realistic. I still think superman is a douche.

Nope, Goku will defeat ALL forms of Superman!

It depends what Superman and Goku you guys are using. Only Post-Crisis Superman is CANON and Manga/Anime Goku is Canon!!! The rest is non-canon.

I have read almost every Superman comic out their and he does NOT compare to Goku in abilities.

Goku >>>>>>>>>>> Superman.

Also, Many Dragonball characters can defeat many DC/Marvel characters. Goku will kill Silver Surfer, Thor, Thanos, Hulk etc.....

KinoFourpaws · Post by **KinoFourpaws** » Sun Mar 18, 2007 9:04 pm

Phenomenol wrote:
Humpski wrote:Every version of Superman there could defeat Goku with the exception of "Golden Age". I'm just being realistic. I still think superman is a douche.
Nope, Goku will defeat ALL forms of Superman!

It depends what Superman and Goku you guys are using. Only Post-Crisis Superman is CANON and Manga/Anime Goku is Canon!!! The rest is non-canon.

I have read almost every Superman comic out their and he does NOT compare to Goku in abilities.

Goku >>>>>>>>>>> Superman.

Also, Many Dragonball characters can defeat many DC/Marvel characters. Goku will kill Silver Surfer, Thor, Thanos, Hulk etc.....

Oh, boy. Please, no more talk of canon/non-canon... you're doing the exact same thing with the Superman storyline(s) that other fans do with the DBZ anime (that is, disregarding lots of parts because you see them as "filler"). That's kind of contradictory of you to do... DDD:

And... uhm... even if Goku could wipe the floor with any of the characters you mentioned (which whether or not that's the case I'm going to be staying FAR away from), there's no way he'd just kill them. He's not that kind of guy. :<

Conan the SSJ · Post by **Conan the SSJ** » Sun Mar 18, 2007 9:22 pm

KinoFourpaws wrote:And... uhm... even if Goku could wipe the floor with any of the characters you mentioned (which whether or not that's the case I'm going to be staying FAR away from), there's no way he'd just kill them. He's not that kind of guy. :<

You have a point, Kino. I mean, outside fish, who has Goku actually killed since Piccolo Daimao, manga-wise? Yakon and Kid Buu, TWO beings in all that time, the latter of which Goku requested be reincarnated. Back in original DB, I think Ha-chan really got to Goku when he was close to killing General White, as Goku seemed to be at his most blood--lust-ish in the Red Ribbon saga when was killing a lot of those soldiers, up to the point of General White. Afterwards, up to the point of killing Tambourine and Piccolo Daimao, I don't think he really killed anyone outside his massive Red Ribbon HQ purge. His non-killing aspect definitely seems to have been put into a heightened effect after training under Mr. Popo and somewhat Kami, where as said, he only killed two enemies in the entire manga afterwards.

Pieter · Post by **Pieter** » Sun Mar 18, 2007 10:34 pm

Conan the SSJ wrote:
KinoFourpaws wrote:And... uhm... even if Goku could wipe the floor with any of the characters you mentioned (which whether or not that's the case I'm going to be staying FAR away from), there's no way he'd just kill them. He's not that kind of guy. :<
You have a point, Kino. I mean, outside fish, who has Goku actually killed since Piccolo Daimao, manga-wise? Yakon and Kid Buu, TWO beings in all that time, the latter of which Goku requested be reincarnated. Back in original DB, I think Ha-chan really got to Goku when he was close to killing General White, as Goku seemed to be at his most blood--lust-ish in the Red Ribbon saga when was killing a lot of those soldiers, up to the point of General White. Afterwards, up to the point of killing Tambourine and Piccolo Daimao, I don't think he really killed anyone outside his massive Red Ribbon HQ purge. His non-killing aspect definitely seems to have been put into a heightened effect after training under Mr. Popo and somewhat Kami, where as said, he only killed two enemies in the entire manga afterwards.

He killed Frieza in Trunks' Timeline. You can also argue he killed Raditz with help of Piccolo.

Conan the SSJ · Post by **Conan the SSJ** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 2:48 am

Pieter wrote:He killed Freeza in Trunks' Timeline. You can also argue he killed Raditz with help of Piccolo.

Yes, he killed Freeza in Trunks' timeline. However, that's not the Goku who's life is the main story of the manga. That was a different Goku, from a parallel world, where whom we barely got a glimpse of as he died from his heart virus. In that world, Gohan achieves Super Saiyan very differently and doesn't get the proper training to reach his hidden potential, leading to a death that never happens to the Gohan we know and love in the present. Future Trunks killed Freeza, but that doesn't mean we can say the present Trunks does as well. When you're saying that Goku killed Freeza, you have to make a clear distinguishing mention. The Goku of the main "present" timeline never did such, a Trunks from a parallel future world did, where in his world a "Mirai/Paralell" Goku did the job. Hence the distinguishing mention, the actual Goku still never kills Freeza.

As for Raditz, like you said, that's very arguable. I suppose in a court of law, Goku may get convicted of 2nd degree murder, but he himself did not deliver the finishing blows to Raditz; Piccolo did. A similar situation is later in the 25th Budokai when Kaioshin restrains Gohan for Spopovitch and Yamu to steal his energy, that way Kaioshin and Kabito can follow them to Babidi. It can be argued that Kaioshin helped steal Gohan's power and hence halfway revived Buu, but he didn't do the actual power draining. Gohan delivered the head-butt to Raditz that weakened him enough for Goku to apply a decent full-nelson, does that mean Gohan played a part in Raditz's death? In the end, it was pretty much Piccolo that did the job and finished Raditz off with his off-panel death strike, while the Beam Cannon (coming entirely from Piccolo) put him at death's door.

Okay, I'm at the point of rambling, apologies. Guess I'm just trying to prove my point at how minimal Goku was at killing. >.>

Pieter · Post by **Pieter** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 9:42 am

Conan the SSJ wrote: The Goku of the main "present" timeline never did such, a Trunks from a parallel future world did, where in his world a "Mirai/Paralell" Goku did the job. Hence the distinguishing mention, the actual Goku still never kills Freeza.

We can't really refer to him as the "real" Goku, since the Mirai timeline was first. The point is though that he has no problems with killing Frieza on Earth, it's just that in our timeline someone else already did.

As for Raditz, like you said, that's very arguable. I suppose in a court of law, Goku may get convicted of 2nd degree murder, but he himself did not deliver the finishing blows to Raditz; Piccolo did. A similar situation is later in the 25th Budokai when Kaioshin restrains Gohan for Spopovitch and Yamu to steal his energy, that way Kaioshin and Kabito can follow them to Babidi. It can be argued that Kaioshin helped steal Gohan's power and hence halfway revived Buu, but he didn't do the actual power draining. Gohan delivered the head-butt to Raditz that weakened him enough for Goku to apply a decent full-nelson, does that mean Gohan played a part in Raditz's death? In the end, it was pretty much Piccolo that did the job and finished Raditz off with his off-panel death strike, while the Beam Cannon (coming entirely from Piccolo) put him at death's door.

He wouldn't get convicted because in the end it's self-defence

Fact is though, Goku hold Raditz so that he would get hit by a deadly beam, to me that's certainly participating in someones killing.

Okay, I'm at the point of rambling, apologies. Guess I'm just trying to prove my point at how minimal Goku was at killing. >.>

Yeah, certainly compared to Dragonball. I still remember the scene where he killed off two Red Ribbon army members who tried to "rape" Bulma. Just like that.

Phenomenol · Post by **Phenomenol** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 6:44 pm

KinoFourpaws wrote:
Phenomenol wrote:
Humpski wrote:Every version of Superman there could defeat Goku with the exception of "Golden Age". I'm just being realistic. I still think superman is a douche.
Nope, Goku will defeat ALL forms of Superman!

It depends what Superman and Goku you guys are using. Only Post-Crisis Superman is CANON and Manga/Anime Goku is Canon!!! The rest is non-canon.

I have read almost every Superman comic out their and he does NOT compare to Goku in abilities.

Goku >>>>>>>>>>> Superman.

Also, Many Dragonball characters can defeat many DC/Marvel characters. Goku will kill Silver Surfer, Thor, Thanos, Hulk etc.....
Oh, boy. Please, no more talk of canon/non-canon... you're doing the exact same thing with the Superman storyline(s) that other fans do with the DBZ anime (that is, disregarding lots of parts because you see them as "filler"). That's kind of contradictory of you to do... DDD:

And... uhm... even if Goku could wipe the floor with any of the characters you mentioned (which whether or not that's the case I'm going to be staying FAR away from), there's no way he'd just kill them. He's not that kind of guy. :<

It doesn';t matter which Goku or Superman we use!!! ANY version of Goku would win.

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 7:13 pm

Phenomenol wrote:It doesn';t matter which Goku or Superman we use!!! ANY version of Goku would win.

Baby Goku?

scottdahl · Post by **scottdahl** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 10:41 pm

I would love to see a fight between Superman an Vegeta.

scottdahl · Post by **scottdahl** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 10:48 pm

Phenomenol wrote:
Humpski wrote:Every version of Superman there could defeat Goku with the exception of "Golden Age". I'm just being realistic. I still think superman is a douche.
Nope, Goku will defeat ALL forms of Superman!

It depends what Superman and Goku you guys are using. Only Post-Crisis Superman is CANON and Manga/Anime Goku is Canon!!! The rest is non-canon.

I have read almost every Superman comic out their and he does NOT compare to Goku in abilities.

Goku >>>>>>>>>>> Superman.

Also, Many Dragonball characters can defeat many DC/Marvel characters. Goku will kill Silver Surfer, Thor, Thanos, Hulk etc.....

Plastic Man could defeat any DBZ character (except Mr. Satan).
Ion could also.

Phenomenol · Post by **Phenomenol** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 3:04 am

scottdahl wrote:Plastic Man could defeat any DBZ character (except Mr. Satan). Ion could also.

Bwhahwhahaha! Plastic Man has had his ass kicked many a time. Plastic Man would lose to General Blue let alone any serious Dragonball character.

Ion is a tough one, but I could use the upper tier Dragonball characters to kill him.

KinoFourpaws · Post by **KinoFourpaws** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 4:33 am

Phenomenol wrote:
scottdahl wrote:Plastic Man could defeat any DBZ character (except Mr. Satan). Ion could also.
Bwhahwhahaha! Plastic Man has had his ass kicked many a time. Plastic Man would lose to General Blue let alone any serious Dragonball character.

Ion is a tough one, but I could use the upper tier Dragonball characters to kill him.

*suddenly imagines Phenomenol at a table playing with a bunch of plastic figures*

Ion: Hahaha I defeat you.

Kuririn: Oh noes I am beaten :O Help me!

*whooosh*

SSJ3 Goku (in big manly voice): I'LL SAVE YOU! LET'S SEE IF YOU CAN TAKE MY KAMEHAMEHA YOU JACKASS! HAAAAA! BWOOOOOOOOH!

Ion: Nuuuuuuuuuu you are unbelievably strong, I diiiiiie! DDDDDDDDD:

Kuririn: Oh my Kami I have been rescued! Thank yoo Gokuuuu! Swoon mwah mwah swoon swoon.

...

.... *cough* o____O;;;

(The less-than-stellar grammar was intentional... >_>; )

Black Mist · Post by **Black Mist** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 1:38 pm

Phenomenol wrote:
scottdahl wrote:Plastic Man could defeat any DBZ character (except Mr. Satan). Ion could also.
Bwhahwhahaha! Plastic Man has had his ass kicked many a time. Plastic Man would lose to General Blue let alone any serious Dragonball character.

Ion is a tough one, but I could use the upper tier Dragonball characters to kill him.

1. Bwhahahaha! is my thing
2. This post is ok but you must improve on your grammer
3. Batman could beat Piccolo and Superman and goku would end in a draw!

Phenomenol · Post by **Phenomenol** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 3:02 pm

Black Mist wrote:
Phenomenol wrote:
scottdahl wrote:Plastic Man could defeat any DBZ character (except Mr. Satan). Ion could also.
Bwhahwhahaha! Plastic Man has had his ass kicked many a time. Plastic Man would lose to General Blue let alone any serious Dragonball character.

Ion is a tough one, but I could use the upper tier Dragonball characters to kill him.
1. Bwhahahaha! is my thing
2. This post is ok but you must improve on your grammer
3. Batman could beat Piccolo and Superman and goku would end in a draw!

My grammer is fine, when I want it to be.

Batman is laughable, Chi Chi could beat Batman. Goku would kick Superman's @#$ all over the map.

caejones · Post by **caejones** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 3:06 pm

Let's say the Z-warriors and the Justice League had a friendly wargame.
Batman would probably not fight unless in ninja-fashion, and would probably do a lot of coordinating of the rest of his team.
Super Man and Goku would probably have very long shots of battle in the middle of the area while everyone else does other stuff around them. Ur... until one of them wins. And I won't say who that'd be.

Flash would probably piss off Vegeta and would try to lead him around in circles. Unless of course Vegeta could catch him.

I have no idea what the heck anyone else would do. Other than Piccolo probably being hte one to find Batman's ninja operations and force him to think... really... quickly...

BlueSky · Post by **Kaboom** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 3:42 pm

I'm most familiar with the animated version of the JLA, but still assuming that their comic book counterparts are a good deal more powerful...

Superman vs SSj4 Goku. Who would triumph is up to your opinions and imaginations. (Though I presonally still believe post-crisis Supey can't quite match up to SSj4)

caejones wrote: Flash would probably piss off Vegeta and would try to lead him around in circles. Unless of course Vegeta could catch him.

Flash really has no other advantage other than his speed, which most of the high-tier Z warriors could probably match. With about SSj2, Vegeta WOULD catch him, and then it wouldn't be pleasant. Gotenks vs Flash would be interesting and amusing.

Wonder Woman, eh? If you think Amazon warriors are fearsome, then you ain't been witness to Chi-Chi's almighty PMS aura. (Realistically, 18 could trounce W.W.)

Piccolo would be best matched against Martian Manhunter, I guess. Both are strong, but rely a lot on skill, stealth and trickery in their fighting. And they're both stoic and green.

Green Lantern would have to match up against Goku, Vegeta, or Gohan, especially if his nifty "Ion" thing that was mentioned earlier and I looked up and read about. Ultimate Gohan could handle him easy; he's smart enough to get around any ring-powered traps GL would. He'd be well match-up with Gotenks, too.

Let's have Batman fight... Bulma. Yup. Neither has powers (though Batsie's about as strong as you can get without 'em), so it'd be two technical geniuses matched up against each other. Batman'd "win," though.

...And that's my nerdy, creative rant.

...Quick! To the FanFic-mobile!

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 6:27 pm

SSj Kaboom wrote:Green Lantern would have to match up against Goku, Vegeta, or Gohan, especially if his nifty "Ion" thing that was mentioned earlier and I looked up and read about. Ultimate Gohan could handle him easy; he's smart enough to get around any ring-powered traps GL would. He'd be well match-up with Gotenks, too.

Isn't Green Lantern weak to yellow?

Phenomenol · Post by **Phenomenol** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 8:19 pm

caejones wrote:Let's say the Z-warriors and the Justice League had a friendly wargame.
Batman would probably not fight unless in ninja-fashion, and would probably do a lot of coordinating of the rest of his team.
Super Man and Goku would probably have very long shots of battle in the middle of the area while everyone else does other stuff around them. Ur... until one of them wins. And I won't say who that'd be.

Flash would probably piss off Vegeta and would try to lead him around in circles. Unless of course Vegeta could catch him.

I have no idea what the heck anyone else would do. Other than Piccolo probably being hte one to find Batman's ninja operations and force him to think... really... quickly...

You have to remember, Dragonball characters FIGHT at the speed of light. None of the JLA members can match that ability, which means they automatically lose.

Anonymous Friend · Post by **Anonymous Friend** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 8:30 pm

Phenomenol wrote:You have to remember, Dragonball characters FIGHT at the speed of light. None of the JLA members can match that ability, which means they automatically lose.

First, I believe Superman and Flash have reached the speed of light. I'm more sure of Superman doing it. Second, not all of the Z-fighters power up to their max at the start of a fight. I would stake my first born on the fact that Goku would start off slow to determine his opponents fighting ability and try not to go all out. He would want to have a good, fun fight. And sadly, third of all, everyone seems to be leaving the humans out of the fight. Are we following in the footsteps of Mr. Toriyama? Where Krillin, Tenshinhan, and Yamcha in all of this?