Who do you think is the most overrated character in DBZ?

[djkalteraphine]

I should note, though, that the title of the series is Dragonball, not Son Goku. Also, unlike Superman, Goku is not the only non-villain powered character.

(Yes, I know about Action Comics--but look how soon the title changed).

Actually, Action Comics and Superman are two separate comics.

And I wouldn't exactly call Kara Zor-El "non-powered". . I mean. . she's Supergirl. And Jimmy Olsen (well, Silver Age Jimmy) had all kinds of crazy powers. Bottom line? Dragon Ball is about Goku.

EDIT: For additional reading, see this month's serializations of Superman and Action Comics.

[Onikage725]

Piccolo was never really Goku's rival. He just wanted him dead so he could rule the world. Vegeta was constantly trying to keep pace with Goku and out do him. And Piccolo isn't really a loner. He spends a lot of time in peoples company, unlike Vegeta , particularly in the period before the androids. Also, Piccolo's a team player, Vegeta is self-absorbed. Not to mention the fact that their histories make them a lot different, and give them different motivations in their lives.

Piccolo was certainly Goku's rival. He rivalled Goku in power for a time and was striving to surpass him to decide the fate of the world. Keep in mind, Vegeta didin't take on the whole "surpass Kakarotto" thing until the Cell Saga (well, between Freeza and Cell). Before then, he was just like Piccolo. Crazy, evil mofo who's barely defeated, while pursuing his own agenda he winds up in the crosshairs of a greater threat and has to side with the good guys. The only key difference is that when Piccolo decided to pick a team, he was much more effective at it- Vegeta took another two sagas to stop dicking around about it.

I should note, though, that the title of the series is Dragonball, not Son Goku. Also, unlike Superman, Goku is not the only non-villain powered character.

(Yes, I know about Action Comics--but look how soon the title changed).

1- A story doesn't have to be named after a character to be about them. The series was really only planned as a one shot manga, very loosely based on Journey to the West. It became popular, so it continued. That's why the Pilaf Saga is this goofy and innocent adventure quest, and the rest of the series is a martial arts action saga.

2- Superman isn't the only powered character. Well, except for on Earth-Prime, but that was wiped out back in the Crisis on Infinite Earth's. Without going into the clusterfuck that is DC continuity, let's just say there are plenty of heroic superheroes in the various Superman comics, to say nothing of his involvement with the Justice League.

3- Action Comics is still around, last time I looked. They just split off a number of concurrent series along the years. (much like Detective Comics is to Batman).

And I wouldn't exactly call Kara Zor-El "non-powered". . I mean. . she's Supergirl. And Jimmy Olsen (well, Silver Age Jimmy) had all kinds of crazy powers. Bottom line? Dragon Ball is about Goku.

Or Power Girl, depending on which Earth you were on. And why did you have to remind me about Elastic Lad???

[djkalteraphine]

Or Power Girl, depending on which Earth you were on. And why did you have to remind me about Elastic Lad???

Cuz Jimmy Olsen is a stone cold badass, sir.

the clusterfuck that is DC continuity

Lol. No truer words spoken.

[Artificial Human #887]

I don't know how this went from Dragonball to DC... (though that issue of Supes that is linked to was written by my boss?) but I don't view Goku as being overrated. He's the main character.

Broli on the other hand... between being "Legendary" or crazy, and being dubbed by Vic Mignogna in the Funi dub, it's like fanboy/fangirl galore. I guess he's cool, but there are far better and more developed characters in the DB Universe to "obsess" over. Like Piccolo. I think he's underrated.

[Onikage725]

It aint easy bein' green.

[Kid Trunks]

Piccolo was never really Goku's rival. He just wanted him dead so he could rule the world. Vegeta was constantly trying to keep pace with Goku and out do him. And Piccolo isn't really a loner. He spends a lot of time in peoples company, unlike Vegeta , particularly in the period before the androids. Also, Piccolo's a team player, Vegeta is self-absorbed. Not to mention the fact that their histories make them a lot different, and give them different motivations in their lives.

Piccolo was certainly Goku's rival. He rivalled Goku in power for a time and was striving to surpass him to decide the fate of the world. Keep in mind, Vegeta didin't take on the whole "surpass Kakarotto" thing until the Cell Saga (well, between Freeza and Cell). Before then, he was just like Piccolo. Crazy, evil mofo who's barely defeated, while pursuing his own agenda he winds up in the crosshairs of a greater threat and has to side with the good guys. The only key difference is that when Piccolo decided to pick a team, he was much more effective at it- Vegeta took another two sagas to stop dicking around about it.

Just because his power level was similar to Goku's doesn't mean he was his rival, at least not in the traditional sense of the word. Freeza, Cell, Buu, they all had similar power levels to Goku, but you'd never call them his "rivals".

[djkalteraphine]

Piccolo was never really Goku's rival. He just wanted him dead so he could rule the world. Vegeta was constantly trying to keep pace with Goku and out do him. And Piccolo isn't really a loner. He spends a lot of time in peoples company, unlike Vegeta , particularly in the period before the androids. Also, Piccolo's a team player, Vegeta is self-absorbed. Not to mention the fact that their histories make them a lot different, and give them different motivations in their lives.

Piccolo was certainly Goku's rival. He rivalled Goku in power for a time and was striving to surpass him to decide the fate of the world. Keep in mind, Vegeta didin't take on the whole "surpass Kakarotto" thing until the Cell Saga (well, between Freeza and Cell). Before then, he was just like Piccolo. Crazy, evil mofo who's barely defeated, while pursuing his own agenda he winds up in the crosshairs of a greater threat and has to side with the good guys. The only key difference is that when Piccolo decided to pick a team, he was much more effective at it- Vegeta took another two sagas to stop dicking around about it.

Just because his power level was similar to Goku's doesn't mean he was his rival, at least not in the traditional sense of the word. Freeza, Cell, Buu, they all had similar power levels to Goku, but you'd never call them his "rivals".

Sure, but Piccolo spent the first three years after his "birth", training to kill Goku. Then he spent four years perfecting the Makankosappo, once again, with the intent of beating and killing Goku. He desperately wanted to surpass him and kill him. Piccolo was Goku's rival. In as much as nearly every character in DB/Z started out as Goku's rival.

[Onikage725]

Piccolo was never really Goku's rival. He just wanted him dead so he could rule the world. Vegeta was constantly trying to keep pace with Goku and out do him. And Piccolo isn't really a loner. He spends a lot of time in peoples company, unlike Vegeta , particularly in the period before the androids. Also, Piccolo's a team player, Vegeta is self-absorbed. Not to mention the fact that their histories make them a lot different, and give them different motivations in their lives.

Piccolo was certainly Goku's rival. He rivalled Goku in power for a time and was striving to surpass him to decide the fate of the world. Keep in mind, Vegeta didin't take on the whole "surpass Kakarotto" thing until the Cell Saga (well, between Freeza and Cell). Before then, he was just like Piccolo. Crazy, evil mofo who's barely defeated, while pursuing his own agenda he winds up in the crosshairs of a greater threat and has to side with the good guys. The only key difference is that when Piccolo decided to pick a team, he was much more effective at it- Vegeta took another two sagas to stop dicking around about it.

Just because his power level was similar to Goku's doesn't mean he was his rival, at least not in the traditional sense of the word. Freeza, Cell, Buu, they all had similar power levels to Goku, but you'd never call them his "rivals".

None of them were persistent either. They ran their course in the story. If Daimaou's death had been the end, I wouldn't say Piccolo was a rival. You make it seem like a rivalry implies a friendship. Explain to me the difference between Vegeta training between/during the Freeza and Cell arcs to surpass (and then kill) Goku and Piccolo Ma Junior training from the moment of his birth until the Budokai, and then for the next few years after his defeat, for the exact same purpose? Even after becoming an anti-hero of sorts, while on Kaio's Piccolo declares that he'll be training to surpass Goku so that the two of them can double-team Freeza. And while on Namek, knowing he's been outclassed, he still muses that he'd like to fight Goku (and later trains with Goku while preparing for the androids). In what way does he fail to live up to the "traditional sense?"

[jjgp1112]

Piccolo was certainly Goku's rival. He rivalled Goku in power for a time and was striving to surpass him to decide the fate of the world. Keep in mind, Vegeta didin't take on the whole "surpass Kakarotto" thing until the Cell Saga (well, between Freeza and Cell). Before then, he was just like Piccolo. Crazy, evil mofo who's barely defeated, while pursuing his own agenda he winds up in the crosshairs of a greater threat and has to side with the good guys. The only key difference is that when Piccolo decided to pick a team, he was much more effective at it- Vegeta took another two sagas to stop dicking around about it.

Just because his power level was similar to Goku's doesn't mean he was his rival, at least not in the traditional sense of the word. Freeza, Cell, Buu, they all had similar power levels to Goku, but you'd never call them his "rivals".

None of them were persistent either. They ran their course in the story. If Daimaou's death had been the end, I wouldn't say Piccolo was a rival. You make it seem like a rivalry implies a friendship. Explain to me the difference between Vegeta training between/during the Freeza and Cell arcs to surpass (and then kill) Goku and Piccolo Ma Junior training from the moment of his birth until the Budokai, and then for the next few years after his defeat, for the exact same purpose? Even after becoming an anti-hero of sorts, while on Kaio's Piccolo declares that he'll be training to surpass Goku so that the two of them can double-team Freeza. And while on Namek, knowing he's been outclassed, he still muses that he'd like to fight Goku (and later trains with Goku while preparing for the androids). In what way does he fail to live up to the "traditional sense?"

He was more of a friendly rival post-Saiyan saga. He always talked about how much he commended Goku and said that he wanted to spar with him one day, but when everyone got sent to earth, he realized that he'd never be stronger than Goku (don't trust me on that, though - I don't completely remember what he said)

[Kid Trunks]

None of them were persistent either. They ran their course in the story. If Daimaou's death had been the end, I wouldn't say Piccolo was a rival. You make it seem like a rivalry implies a friendship. Explain to me the difference between Vegeta training between/during the Freeza and Cell arcs to surpass (and then kill) Goku and Piccolo Ma Junior training from the moment of his birth until the Budokai, and then for the next few years after his defeat, for the exact same purpose? Even after becoming an anti-hero of sorts, while on Kaio's Piccolo declares that he'll be training to surpass Goku so that the two of them can double-team Freeza. And while on Namek, knowing he's been outclassed, he still muses that he'd like to fight Goku (and later trains with Goku while preparing for the androids). In what way does he fail to live up to the "traditional sense?"

(I hate being triple teamed in a discussion lol). I don't know how you think I'm implying that a friendship is needed. Thats not what I'm saying. The difference between Piccolo Ma Junior's training and Vegeta's training during/between the Freeza and Cell sagas is that Piccolo only wanted Goku dead so he could rule the world, while Vegeta only wanted to surpass Goku so he could be better. He didn't care for killing Goku, while Piccolo cared for nothing but killing Goku. He didn't even care how he died, so long as it was done (eg. against Raditz, he didn't care how Goku would not die in a battle with him). Piccolo was more like Goku's assassin than anything else.

Even after becoming an anti-hero of sorts, while on Kaio's Piccolo declares that he'll be training to surpass Goku so that the two of them can double-team Freeza.

That was more to do with motivation for the training for Freeza.

And while on Namek, knowing he's been outclassed, he still muses that he'd like to fight Goku(and later trains with Goku while preparing for the androids)

At this point Piccolo seems to have changed (temporarily). Here he wants to fight Goku to test his strength, instead of just killing him so he can rule the world...He never showed in interest in that before. I'll concede to your point here. But I don't see what training with Goku proves. Gohan trained with him too.

Basically, Piccolo's goal in life is to rule the world, Goku is only an obstacle. Vegeta's goal is to defeat Goku at his maximum in a fight. Thats what I mean by "not a rival in the traditional sense".

[Kendamu]

I don't know how this went from Dragonball to DC...

Way earlier in this thread I compared Goku and Dragonball to Superman and Action Comics. It was ignored until just recently when it was referenced and brought back into the discussion to further prove the point that the main character of Dragonball is not overrated.

[Onikage725]

@ Kid Trunks- Sorry if it seems like we're ganging up on you. I'm not trying to lol
But my point is just that Vegeta was the same early on. The reason you want to surpass someone and defeat them isn't all that important, I don't think. Piccolo Ma Junior chiefly wanted to avenge his father and rule the world. Vegeta wanted to ease his wounded pride (which I see as similar to Piccolo reincarnating himself for vengeance- can't handle the whole "defeat" thing) and to rule the universe. Before Goku shows up on Namek, Vegeta doesn't even consider him a threat- he was stronger on Earth and he was getting much stronger since. He figured when he was done with his business, he would just go and take out Goku on general principle. In that respect, he's a lot like Piccolo, perhaps even worse (I mean on the rival scale). It isn't until Goku goes SSJ that Vegeta devotes himself to besting him. But also keep in mind... Vegeta didn't have shit to do. Everyone else that used to be his match was A- surpassed and B- dead. Except maybe Piccolo. He gets to the point where he's rescuing Goku just to have the pleasure of killing him later.

So I guess the sum of my argument is that they both count as rivals. I don't think that Vegeta's serial killer-esque obsession with Goku gives him extra points. I mean, I would count Ryoga and Kuno as rivals of Ranma, even though they both have very different reasons for wanting to beat him, and different relationships with him too. Just throwing that last bit as an example/parallel. Kuno wants Ranma gone for reasons of personal gain while Ryoga wants to take revenge for a previous embarrassment.

[Kid Trunks]

You make good points. I guess they're both rivals, but in very different ways. To be honest, I'm glad to just end this debate. Sometimes they go on longer than I can handle, since nobody's ever going to give in (myself included)

[Onikage725]

You make good points. I guess they're both rivals, but in very different ways. To be honest, I'm glad to just end this debate. Sometimes they go on longer than I can handle, since nobody's ever going to give in (myself included)

Lol ok, I agree to disagree