New-found love for the Freeza saga

mAcChaos · Post by **mAcChaos** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 6:54 pm

I don't think even if they all worked together it would've made a difference before Cell got the senzu, if Gohan hadn't gone SSJ2. The gap would've still been too great. The only way was if Gohan ascended.

jjgp1112 · Post by **jjgp1112** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 7:20 pm

mAcChaos wrote:I don't think even if they all worked together it would've made a difference before Cell got the senzu, if Gohan hadn't gone SSJ2. The gap would've still been too great. The only way was if Gohan ascended.

But it seemed weird. It was like:

Goku: I know you can beat quite possibly the strongest person in the universe. Oh, and Cell, here, I'm gonna make you all "OMFGWTFBBQ STRONG" again!

The thing I like most about the Cell saga was that Cell was different from the other villains. He wasn't megalomaniacal. He wasn't doing it because he was sadistic. He was doing the things he did because he just wanted to test and show of his strength.

DBZGokuSaiyan · Post by **DBZGokuSaiyan** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 10:14 pm

jjgp1112 wrote:
mAcChaos wrote:I don't think even if they all worked together it would've made a difference before Cell got the senzu, if Gohan hadn't gone SSJ2. The gap would've still been too great. The only way was if Gohan ascended.
But it seemed weird. It was like:

Goku: I know you can beat quite possibly the strongest person in the universe. Oh, and Cell, here, I'm gonna make you all "OMFGWTFBBQ STRONG" again!

The thing I like most about the Cell saga was that Cell was different from the other villains. He wasn't megalomaniacal. He wasn't doing it because he was sadistic. He was doing the things he did because he just wanted to test and show of his strength.

Cell was probably the fourth (in chronological order) main villain that had a brain. Raditz being the first. The Ginyu Force being the second. And Frieza being the third.

djkalteraphine · Post by **djkalteraphine** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 10:43 pm

DBZGokuSaiyan wrote:
jjgp1112 wrote:
mAcChaos wrote:I don't think even if they all worked together it would've made a difference before Cell got the senzu, if Gohan hadn't gone SSJ2. The gap would've still been too great. The only way was if Gohan ascended.
But it seemed weird. It was like:

Goku: I know you can beat quite possibly the strongest person in the universe. Oh, and Cell, here, I'm gonna make you all "OMFGWTFBBQ STRONG" again!

The thing I like most about the Cell saga was that Cell was different from the other villains. He wasn't megalomaniacal. He wasn't doing it because he was sadistic. He was doing the things he did because he just wanted to test and show of his strength.
Cell was probably the fourth (in chronological order) main villain that had a brain. Raditz being the first. The Ginyu Force being the second. And Freeza being the third.

Piccolo Daimao didn't have a brain? I always reckoned he was the most intelligent villain, seeing how he blew up Shenron to stop anyone using them against him.

DBZGokuSaiyan · Post by **DBZGokuSaiyan** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:15 pm

djkalteraphine wrote:
DBZGokuSaiyan wrote:
jjgp1112 wrote: But it seemed weird. It was like:

Goku: I know you can beat quite possibly the strongest person in the universe. Oh, and Cell, here, I'm gonna make you all "OMFGWTFBBQ STRONG" again!

The thing I like most about the Cell saga was that Cell was different from the other villains. He wasn't megalomaniacal. He wasn't doing it because he was sadistic. He was doing the things he did because he just wanted to test and show of his strength.
Cell was probably the fourth (in chronological order) main villain that had a brain. Raditz being the first. The Ginyu Force being the second. And Freeza being the third.
Piccolo Daimao didn't have a brain? I always reckoned he was the most intelligent villain, seeing how he blew up Shenron to stop anyone using them against him.

lol Well, I meant in DBZ only. King Piccolo obviously was the most intelligent villain probably in the history of the whole Dragon Ball series (yes, counting DBZ and DBGT).

Kid Trunks · Post by **Kid Trunks** » Fri Aug 01, 2008 12:07 am

Its funny how much you have to "lower the bar" to consider any of the villains intelligent.

mAcChaos · Post by **mAcChaos** » Fri Aug 01, 2008 12:18 am

They're all smart. Except maybe Reacoome. They just have huge personality flaws, some of them. That's what makes them interesting. HUBRIS.

DBZGokuSaiyan · Post by **DBZGokuSaiyan** » Fri Aug 01, 2008 12:26 am

mAcChaos wrote:They're all smart. Except maybe Reacoome. They just have huge personality flaws, some of them. That's what makes them interesting. HUBRIS.

Recoome was like... literally retarded. lol

saiyanprincess · Post by **saiyanprincess** » Fri Aug 01, 2008 4:42 am

The way Reccombe danced about like an overweight ballerina makes me laugh each time

He made Nappa seem as clever as Dr Briefs! Definitely wasn't a bright spark...

Guldo was pretty dim too, Who would pick a fight with the Saiyan prince, even if he did have the power of E.S.P and to bend time? Those techniques were his only upperhand. In all truths he really sucked at fighting! - He had to freeze Gohan and Krillin and then use a sharpened tree to try and kill them...

Kunzait_83 · Post by **Kunzait_83** » Fri Aug 01, 2008 8:22 am

djkalteraphine · Post by **djkalteraphine** » Fri Aug 01, 2008 6:03 pm

To be fair though, the dub doesn't even really play Nappa as a dumb guy. In fact, he always came off rather clever to me. I'm still not sure where the "Nappa is dumb" stuff came from.

EDIT: I should say, I'm speaking of the original dub, with ocean studios.

Kid Trunks · Post by **Kid Trunks** » Fri Aug 01, 2008 6:49 pm

djkalteraphine wrote:EDIT: I should say, I'm speaking of the original dub, with ocean studios.

Except when Vegeta and Nappa were waiting for Goku, and Nappa apparently kept forgetting why, so Vegeta had to keep telling him.

Super Sonic · Post by **Super Sonic** » Fri Aug 01, 2008 10:11 pm

Even Phil Parsons' Nappa doesn't come off as dumb. More of a hothead a la Sonny Corleone.

djkalteraphine · Post by **djkalteraphine** » Fri Aug 01, 2008 10:25 pm

I wouldn't call this as coming off as stupid. As far as I can tell, Nappa being stupid was a complete fandom invention.

Xyex · Post by **Xyex** » Sat Aug 02, 2008 8:13 am

djkalteraphine wrote:I wouldn't call this as coming off as stupid. As far as I can tell, Nappa being stupid was a complete fandom invention.

I see it as a misread of him. Like how some people think that Goku is stupid when he's just naive and lacks real world experiences at the start. With Nappa it's that he's just got a one track mind. Kill stuff.

Kunzait_83 · Post by **Kunzait_83** » Sat Aug 02, 2008 9:28 am

Thanos6 · Post by **Thanos6** » Sat Aug 02, 2008 9:34 am

And the real, sad irony is, that just like many of the Ocean dub voices would have been perfect for, say, a superhero cartoon (Brian Drummond's Vegeta has the perfect crazed supervillain voice), many of the Ocean dub lines would have been perfect as well (eg "being a good fiend").

Onikage725 · Post by **Onikage725** » Sat Aug 02, 2008 10:11 am

JulieYBM wrote:
And yet it still occured to him his dad was right.

And...thirty's a midlife crisis?

Well, no, I didn't think up traditional math. But the story is hardly normal. Goku's been carrying the ball since he was a kid. His son was about th age where he first started adventuring, and he was pushing him into the spotlight. He died, voluntarily stayed dead for years, came back for another decade or so, and then vaguely passed on again. So picking normal "mid-life" for oku is fairly subjective. Personally I pick the "train a replacement and then die to throw off my enemies" portion of his history.

Rocketman wrote:
Ah, that. Well, I've pretty much said my piece on that.

And actually, it doesn't make any sense in the anime. Cell's been getting pummeled by everybody with no effect, why does a single blast from base Vegeta (weaker than Piccolo) make any difference?

I look at it as addition. I figured Vegeta's attack was the straw that broke the camel's back. Vegeta, being the next strongest guy on the field behind Gohan would have basically doubled (or more) the strain on Cell from defending against the extra attacks. In an instant. Hence the one sudden "wtf" look and brief slip. I also think its odd how in the manga Vegeta alone got this effect. We had just established before the duel that Vegeta was basically nothing to Cell. And Cell was dominating Gohan, so one random blast shouldn't have completely thrown him off his game. To be fair, I saw the anime first, so I was always skeptical of the manga version of the scene.

On the comments of Vegeta's motivation- those are the same in both versions.

The bigger question is why wouldn't Piccolo have attempted to help Gohan? How is that in character? Especially considering he was the next strongest fighter behind Vegeta.

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Sat Aug 02, 2008 10:39 am

Onikage725 wrote:I look at it as addition. I figured Vegeta's attack was the straw that broke the camel's back. Vegeta, being the next strongest guy on the field behind Gohan would have basically doubled (or more) the strain on Cell from defending against the extra attacks. In an instant. Hence the one sudden "wtf" look and brief slip. I also think its odd how in the manga Vegeta alone got this effect. We had just established before the duel that Vegeta was basically nothing to Cell. And Cell was dominating Gohan, so one random blast shouldn't have completely thrown him off his game. To be fair, I saw the anime first, so I was always skeptical of the manga version of the scene.

It's the surprise of it. Cell was focusing totally on crushing Gohan, he wasn't defending at all. Vegeta's blast actually makes him bleed. Hence the "wtf" look and brief slip.

The bigger question is why wouldn't Piccolo have attempted to help Gohan? How is that in character? Especially considering he was the next strongest fighter behind Vegeta.

He didn't have time. The beam struggle in the manga is five pages, half of which are Goku talking to Gohan or scenery. When the beams collide, Piccolo is tossed away by the force of it with the humans, 18 and Trunks' corpse. Almost right after Piccolo says "He can't do it! He's being overpowered!", Vegeta attacks Cell.

I really doubt the whole thing lasts more than a minute (excepting that Talking is a Free Action).

Onikage725 · Post by **Onikage725** » Sat Aug 02, 2008 11:40 am

Haha yes, talking is a free action. I've played enough D&D and read enough old school X-Men to know that.

Kanzenshuu

New-found love for the Freeza saga

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