Worst DB/Z/GT intros

[jjgp1112]

So I guess I'm the only person here that actually likes Falconer's score. (dodges rocks)

[Jerseymilk]

Joice!! Not sure why Jheese had an Australian accent.

Because Sabat was trying to imitate Scott McNeil who for some odd reason, originally gave Jheese a Liverpool accent(I swear that man's on drugs >>). Sabat obviously was incapable of getting it right and ended up sounding like he was Australian. Just goes to show sometimes, it's best not to try and be a carbon copy.

Especially when you don't have the vocal skill to copy the person before you. Even worse then his Jheese voice was his Racoome.

Don't remind me. >>

[NeptuneKai]

So I guess I'm the only person here that actually likes Falconer's score. (dodges rocks)

It's not that I hate Bruce's score itself, I just hate it for Dragonball. If he made music for say Megaman 9 or a new Pokemon game I'd be fine with it for the most part but putting it in an anime where in my opinion it just doesn't belong gives me a bad impression of it just because it was in the wrong place at the wrong time.

[SaiyaMel]

I remember another opening that the Bardock special (first dub) starts with - it contains the same footage of the original "Chala Head Chala" intro,, but replaced with techno music having the only lyrics "Dragonball Z"... I'm not able to find it on Youtube.

Those who know what I'm talking about probably detest that song... but I like it.

[jjgp1112]

I remember another opening that the Bardock special (first dub) starts with - it contains the same footage of the original "Chala Head Chala" intro,, but replaced with techno music having the only lyrics "Dragonball Z"... I'm not able to find it on Youtube.

Those who know what I'm talking about probably detest that song... but I like it.

I know what song you're talking about too. I like it as well. (dodges a brick thrown through my window that says, "From Kunzait_83")

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzxkwweZy_w

[NeptuneKai]

I remember another opening that the Bardock special (first dub) starts with - it contains the same footage of the original "Chala Head Chala" intro,, but replaced with techno music having the only lyrics "Dragonball Z"... I'm not able to find it on Youtube.

Those who know what I'm talking about probably detest that song... but I like it.

I know what song you're talking about too. I like it as well. (dodges a brick thrown through my window that says, "From Kunzait_83")

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzxkwweZy_w

Oh geeze, that's like "Rock The Dragon 2.0".

[SaiyaMel]

I remember another opening that the Bardock special (first dub) starts with - it contains the same footage of the original "Chala Head Chala" intro,, but replaced with techno music having the only lyrics "Dragonball Z"... I'm not able to find it on Youtube.

Those who know what I'm talking about probably detest that song... but I like it.

I know what song you're talking about too. I like it as well. (dodges a brick thrown through my window that says, "From Kunzait_83")

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzxkwweZy_w

That's the one.

Thanks!

[Kunzait_83]

b

[jjgp1112]

Kunzait, don't you think you're exaggerating things a little bit? You're acting like the DBZ opener is the worst piece of music ever invented.

[Super Ghost Kamikaze]

Kunzait, don't you think you're exaggerating things a little bit? You're acting like the DBZ opener is the worst piece of music ever invented.

And he has the right to express that opinion. I'm not gonna shut you up when you think something is awful. On the whole, he's either respectful or at least TRYING to be. And that's really all you can ask for in a discussion forum. Otherwise, what do you get?

A lot of "Meh" and half-hearted responses. And you know what? That's dull. =p

[SaiyaMel]

I remember another opening that the Bardock special (first dub) starts with - it contains the same footage of the original "Chala Head Chala" intro,, but replaced with techno music having the only lyrics "Dragonball Z"... I'm not able to find it on Youtube.

Those who know what I'm talking about probably detest that song... but I like it.

I know what song you're talking about too. I like it as well. (dodges a brick thrown through my window that says, "From Kunzait_83")

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzxkwweZy_w

Oh geeze, that's like "Rock The Dragon 2.0".

Personally I like it more than Rock the Dragon and "Dragon Dragonbal....Dragonball ZZZZZZZZZZ".

And "Dragon Dragonball....Dragonball ZZZZZZZZZZ" owns "Rock the Dragon" in my book.

I also think that Italian GT opening was pretty cool, though more lengthy than needed... Guess because I'm a sucker for techno music.

[Raki]

Your point was that the music would have no merit without Dragonball to back it up, yes? My counterpoint would be that no soundtrack really is considered great without relation to its related source material.

That’s a very good point, and my counter-counter point to that would be that even though the initial impact of a soundtrack 9 times out of 10 tends to be largely predicated upon hearing it in the context of it’s original source material, the mark of a truly great soundtrack is how listenable it can otherwise be on it’s own outside of that context.

And in that regard I would definitely say that the Faulconer score loses big time, not only next to the original Japanese DB/DBZ score, but also next to just about anything that has sound to it. Literally anything from pre-school nursery rhymes recited by an adult-ed class, to the Muppet Babies theme song, to the death cries of a POW dying of a rectal infection… these are all things I can safely say I’d rather listen to and would find more enjoyable than a typical Faulconer piece.

So it fails both as DBZ music and as just music that’s at least distantly pleasant to listen to in and of itself. A good soundtrack should have at least one or the other in its favor. It should be either good as the music accompanying the show it’s a part of, good as just music by itself, or in the best case scenario, both. If it cannot be good either way, then there’s a definite problem with it.

I'll agree on that point. I listen to the music from YYH,DBZ,Dragonball, and especially Samurai Champloo{everyday to be exact}. Not once have I considered even downloading Falcouner's score.

[Super Ghost Kamikaze]

You make a fair enough point, and the only thing I can really comment on is the “catchy” part that I bolded. I honestly don’t see the Faulconer opening even as that quite honestly, like as in a “gets in one’s head jingle” sort of way. I honestly think even that is being far too generous towards it.

...

So no, I can’t even concede that it’s “catchy” if for no other reason than that it’s so poorly written and composed that I can’t even mentally hang onto a fucking note of it, outside of again perhaps that one shitty guitar riff (which is only one little part and doesn’t comprise anywhere near the whole song). It’s literally the musical equivalent of incoherent gibberish, and I honestly cannot help but wonder in total seriousness if Faulconer was stoned off his ass on Ambien and tripping balls while writing it. It would go a long way towards explaining how the “piece” turned out the way it did without simply coming to the conclusion that the poor guy is simply mentally deficient.

For that reason though I guess I can see your point about how one might not really mind the song, as it can barely even be technically qualified as one in the first place.

And you’ll note that no, I did not anywhere include Rock the Dragon as being a candidate for “worst intro”. Because as bad and stupid as it otherwise was and as much as I dislike it, it was at the very least technically competent to some basic degree and had that same “dumb, but catchy kiddie cartoon jingle” quality to it which you described, one that most of the cheesiest 80’s and 90’s cartoons had with their intros. It was still bad granted, but there was some simple degree of basic professionalism and competence behind it, whereas Faulconer just screams “amateur hour” from the word go and ranks right up there in sheer “what the fuck is THIS supposed to be?” with that Canadian Z intro I posted a page or so back.

So, I think you're saying here what I'm saying. I suppose I didn't mean "catchy", more like...it can be "not minded", whereas some of these other themes have some obviously badly-recorded vocals that sound as though they were recorded in somebody's basement.

That’s a very good point, and my counter-counter point to that would be that even though the initial impact of a soundtrack 9 times out of 10 tends to be largely predicated upon hearing it in the context of it’s original source material, the mark of a truly great soundtrack is how listenable it can otherwise be on it’s own outside of that context.

Honestly, I think that the music can not stand on its own as long as it underscores the moment that it appears in. And yeah, Faulconer's score fails on this at every level. But I was never saying that the score was a great one, or even a good one. I'm simply saying that I get how people can say "This isn't as bad" when juxtaposed against something like the Canadian theme. Because at least this second Funi theme doesn't bludgeon you over the head with the word "DRAGONBALL" and/or the letter "Z". At least it doesn't sound like it was recorded in someone's
basement. Yes, you may be able to do BETTER, but official releases have done WORSE. Where they use the original theme footage not out of respect, but because they're cheap. And the audio quality for their vocals turns out to be painful.

And yes, I have seen a decent number of movies or shows or whatnot that I didn’t like, but thought that the soundtrack (or some other random element) was really good and caught myself listening to or humming it later on. One Piece immediately springs to mind.

Then you don't fall under my example. I find this odd, since this rarely happens to me personally. The music for the Harry Potter movies far outweighs the actual films themselves, and same for the Pirates of the Caribbean sequels. But that's another rant entirely, so let's leave this at that....

That’s certainly another fair point, and my only response is simply that I’ve been far more exposed to the “rabid” fans than I have been the “eh, don’t mind it” fans, comparatively speaking that is. I could sorta understand and totally not bat much of an eyelash at a more laconic and realistic position on the guy’s musical “talents” (such as they are), as in along the lines of “whatever, it’s nothing great, but it’s background noise”.

Then...we're in agreement?

[quote"Mr. Kunzait the Going on a Rant"]But again, that’s generally not the kind of folks I’ve been around in these matters. I’ve known (or known of) no end of people who practically pound on their chests screaming “this shit fucking RULES!!!”, people who’d make whole mixes composed of nothing but this stuff and listen to it over and over again obsessively, wearing out their CDs like it were fucking porn. [/quote]

Okay, so we're NOT in agreement, because.....you met people that are huge Faulconer fans and as such don't fit into my examples?

But eh, I’ve sure dug my fair share of crap viewed by others as “uniformly terrible” so I guess it’s just all completely relative at the end of the day… even though I REALLY cannot grasp the appeal at all in this particular instance.

I'd really like to have the disclaimer that I don't like this stuff. Anymore. I mean, I really dug it as a kid, and that might be because I enjoyed(and frankly, still enjoy) a lot of crappy cartoons. But I can look at this and say "Eh, it's not quite so bad as the echo chamber over there. And at least it's action-y, which is what they were going for." By all means, I know it sucks. But it doesn't grate on me like nails on a chalkboard. I can listen to it and not cringe.

I’m sure that the very same exact thing could be said for all the Polish and Portuguese kiddies reared on those intros we’re all so fond of laughing at here. I’m simply saying that what’s good for the goose is good for the gander. If those intros are considered fair game for mocking, then the FUNi ones ought to be as well because they’re in the exact same boat as the others; badly produced foreign dub with a horrendously inappropriate intro.

Oh, yes, I can see that. But I'm pretty sure your original point was "How can anyone possibly think this doesn't fit in with the rest?" And I can sit here and say, well, first of all there's a nostalgia attached to it. And secondly, while it's not good by any means, it doesn't hurt to listen to like a couple of the worst themes. A dog turd may not smell as bad or be as messy as a cow turd, but it's still a turd. Basically, I'm defending the dog turd on the merits of the cow turd. Which may not be completely fair.

If “because this is a U.S. forum and anything that’s tied to our dub therefore means something far greater to us and should therefore be considered invincible from anyone ripping on it” is the best argument and defense that you or anyone else here can come up with for laying off the Faulconer intro as if it were in any way special from the other bizarre non-sequitur intros (which it most certainly isn’t) while making merry with going to town on all the rest of the shitastic foreign dub intros, well then with all due respect, that just isn’t gonna cut it for me.

...man, use some punctuation. Try saying that sentence as written, and you'll suffocate on your own rant. Can you even MAKE a short sentence?

Not by a long shot.

Ah, much better.

My point was more "This is one contributing factor to the possibility of people considering this to be not all that bad". It wasn't exactly waving an American flag with 50 one-star dragonballs (I admit I never actually remembered all the names of them, and so I go with "# Star Ball since that is what the names mean anyway...). It was more, "Well, look. Most of us grew up with this. That could make us not think it's crap. Plus, look at that Canadian song. It really, REALLY sucks. They just listened to that, now give them this Funi thing. It just doesn't look as bad in comparison."

Even if another version you learn of later on blows it away by comparison, there still has to be something there in the former version that lets it stand on it’s own two feet to give one something of a precedent for continuing to hang onto it, even out of nostalgic sentimentality; like the Hokuto no Ken manga compared to the anime. The manga blows the anime out of the water in the view of the vast majority of HnK fans, but the anime is still very much loved, especially by those who were introduced to it first, as something still exceedingly good unto itself even by many of those who vastly prefer the manga.

And what makes it stand on its own two feet is that, while it's crappy techno, it's not the worst that's happened to Dragonball in terms of international themes. And rated against other US cartoon theme songs, it's just par for the course and arguably better than "Strong Bad is a wrestleman; He's the email-checkinest guy in the land; He checks real emails from the net; He's got two brothers and The Cheat, his pet; The Cheat, his pet!!!"

Again I do see your point, but in my view it only carries so far. Maybe it’s just me, but there’s a definite limit to how much badly made crap from my distant childhood that even my own nostalgia can withstand before my present day sensibilities have to step in and intervene before I lose what brain cells I may have left.

I think it probably carries farther for some people than it does for others. And some people still enjoy crappy US cartoons well into adulthood. So apparently, there are a lot of people who enjoy that kind of thing.

That’s why I feel kinda lucky in a way that I got into anime/manga (amongst a bunch of other things) as young as I did; I got to have a bunch of really great shows and movies become a part of my nostalgic childhood years, so that when I revisit them in present time, I get the best of both worlds; enjoying them “legitimately” by my present day sensibilities while at the same time having that added extra “kick” that comes with them as a piece of nostalgia from my childhood.

Y'know, I still enjoy a lot of cartoons from my childhood that were US-made. I actually LIKE Rugrats still(not the new ones, but the older ones stand up on their own). Stuff from the Muppets, several old Disney classics are enjoyable(to me) on their own merits. Cartoons like Invader Zim still stand up, too. Hell, I enjoy the cartoon RECESS for goodness' sake, and THAT show's premise stopped applying to me a decade ago.

But this is just me.

Yes, it may be ridiculous and stupid.

You’ll get no argument from me there.

And I say that with all the love and respect in the world for my fellow Daizexers, dub fans or otherwise.

Oh good, we're finally in agreement!

I mean, it's a US theme song in the 90s, you couldn't expect anything CLOSE to approximating the original Japanese theme on US TV until about five years later.

Again this likely just applies to me, but I really grew out of those kinds of cartoons with that style of music very early on in life, and if anything grew to hate them even as a kid. If the 9 year old version of me came to hate that style of music and cartoon so much, how do you think the twenty-something version of me feels about them?

Okay. I have to admit, I still watch cartoons. I like them.

See above for my thoughts on the “catchy” aspect of it.

Again, sorry, I didn't mean "catchy", more "not grating".

Apart from that, my point isn’t about comparing which foreign intro is more or less crappy than the other (though I think that Canadian Z one really comes close to nabbing the crown).

Ah, that IS my point. Because the less crappy an intro is, the more likely it is to actually be not mocked, even protected. And that is "how people can possibly something something something". Look, find your own original point. I have to quote you enough in these posts.

PROTIP: Who says you have to just type it over and over manually? That’s what copy/paste is there for.

No.

[Brad Redfield]

80’s American cartoons were notorious for having shitty, low grade, forgettable BGM of course--

Just wanted to add that I thought "The Real Ghostbusters" had kick-ass BGM.

--as opposed to me revisiting The Real Ghostbusters years and years later (saw a couple of episodes of that a few months back for the first time since early grade school, and god was that a painful experience; I used to ADORE that show as a 4 year old).

Which episodes did you watch? Because I would agree with your assessment if it was stuff from seasons three and up but the first two seasons had some fantastic episodes. (Knock Knock, Ragnarok and Roll, Collect Call of Cathulhu being some of them.)

....*Cough* I'll stop there. *end Ghostbusters geek-mode*

[Wojak]

Super Ghost Kamikaze, the thing you did with nicknames, was awesome. It made it easier (and funnier) to read the bread-text and also, the nicknames were (didn't I already say it?) very funny.

/Mr.Wojak the Fan of original humor

[SSJ2bardock]

I know what song you're talking about too. I like it as well. (dodges a brick thrown through my window that says, "From Kunzait_83")

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzxkwweZy_w

Oh geeze, that's like "Rock The Dragon 2.0".

Personally I like it more than Rock the Dragon and "Dragon Dragonbal....Dragonball ZZZZZZZZZZ".

And "Dragon Dragonball....Dragonball ZZZZZZZZZZ" owns "Rock the Dragon" in my book.

I also think that Italian GT opening was pretty cool, though more lengthy than needed... Guess because I'm a sucker for techno music.

This was in the old Trunks special VHS's, and I don't thinks it's all too terribly bad.

[Onikage725]

Yeah I (along with many others in my age range who remember it fondly) plan on buying the DVD boxsets for it at some point down the road cause the nostalgia’s still there and my inner 4 year old hasn’t died… but do I even remember things like the BGM (not the theme song; the BGM)? Do I still “rock out” to it today? Does anybody? Hell no. The style in which typical U.S. cartoons were created usually entailed cheaply produced, mind numbing, generic “action” music blathering on endlessly in the background. And the Faulconer music for DBZ comes from this very same school of music.

I...do. Even made that one music video (to the theme, granted, but still).

[SSJ2bardock]

Yeah I (along with many others in my age range who remember it fondly) plan on buying the DVD boxsets for it at some point down the road cause the nostalgia’s still there and my inner 4 year old hasn’t died… but do I even remember things like the BGM (not the theme song; the BGM)? Do I still “rock out” to it today? Does anybody? Hell no. The style in which typical U.S. cartoons were created usually entailed cheaply produced, mind numbing, generic “action” music blathering on endlessly in the background. And the Faulconer music for DBZ comes from this very same school of music.

I...do. Even made that one music video (to the theme, granted, but still).

Yeah, I still do too, my most recent obsession being all things Sonic and his rocking music from the videogames.

Kunzait, one of your main points when arguing Faulconer music usually seems to be how you've grown out of the "rock" music. I'm curious, do you have a general dislike for rock music or do you just think it has no place being in Dragonball?

[Kunzait_83]

b

[Onikage725]

Oh he doesn't. The key word in his anti-Faulconer rants is "generic."

Example? Naruto's first US opening theme. In Japan, they get a decent song as an opener. In the US we got a "song" with about 3 words repeated and a repetitive riff in the background that picks up for 10 seconds. The Fox Spiderman opening theme had more variety and thought put into it.

It's been something familiar to many anime fans. Back in the day it was very common to see a clip online or watch a fansub tape and dig the opening sequence, only to buy an official release put out by, say, Manga, and be treated to some ridiculously bland attempt at rock or techno with no lyrics. Just utterly devoid of emotion, something that some out of touch exec who no longer remembered his childhood thought that kids like me would find exciting.

I agree with him, by the way. I just think the Hasbro era gave us better BGM than anything Faulconer did pre-Buu Saga (there is one kickass remix of the Perfect Cell theme, but the theme itself always seemed to cut away to Hannah Barbera-ish sounds just when it got good).

I've actually wanted a dub-music fan's perspective.

I was a dubbie for a very long time. Even after making the switch in language preference, a simple lack of funds (and dislike for the way the DVD releases were handled) kept me mostly confined to Cartoon Network dub-viewing right through the end of Z and chunks of DB and verrrry litle of GT, but that I had seen already for the most part. I started with the series with the oooold Pilaf dub.

And that dub has the only intro I ever liked. Sure, it's cheesy now. But the style behind the score back then was similar to the originals (though inferior).

The Z music never seemed to fit. At first it didn't even stand out, Rock the Dragon aside. But Rock the Dragon was just a music video using, mainly, movie footage. It never really felt like an intro. Just something cool to fill some space.

Faulconer's music in season 3 was produced quickly and on a VERY tight budget, with the intention of "Americanizing" it for mass market appeal. And it always felt like that to me. Many Freeza Saga themes were hard on my ears (I dare you to listen to the shit they played whenever Bulma was on screen).

I barely even view this as simple opinion. FUNi had a tight budget, they hired the guy they could get to work cheaply and quickly. Bruce has said he had to churn out a very large score with very little time. Bruce has also said that the score is as Westernized as possible. And western cartoon scores made on the cheap tend to be fairly... as Kunzait often puts it... generic. The ones that are memorable tend to have a kickass main theme and then use remixes of that theme throughout. There are, of course, exceptions. I still remember as many themes from Thundercats as I do from the Guyver OVA series. But ask me to hum anything from Bucky O'Hare. I loved that show, and could probably break out with the theme song if asked, but that's about it.

@Kunzait-
I know I'll never change your mind about GI Joe, but not everything designed as a toy first was crap. Transformers has a very rich history (which was often limited by the toy-first marketing before they realized what they had on their hands).
I gotta call BS on Turtles though. I hate that show as much as you do, but we both dig season 1, and mostly grew jaded when trying to watch the show through adult eyes. Well that and late seasons sucking on a TMNT: Fast Forward scale.
I really want to rewatch Arthur and the Knights of Justice though. I woke up the other day with the completely unfounded fan-theory that Lord Viper was probably supposed to be Mordred, and I wanna see if that theory holds up :p