Dragon Ball Z Being Re-edited and Re-dubbed for HDTV

B · Post by B » Sun Mar 01, 2009 2:37 pm

Oh. So wait, are those not the same shots, and the screenshot is at a different scene?

I can't remember if that scene was panning out/in, or if it was a still.

Taku128 · Post by **Taku128** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 2:45 pm

Super Ghost Kamikaze wrote:
Taku128 wrote:Because it's being reedited to remove all of the filler. A pan and scan movie is the same movie as the widescreen version with part of the picture missing. This is a completely new product. It's using the footage from DBZ to reconstruct the manga, without any of the bits Toei added to the original anime to keep them behind the manga. If it was just the anime with pan and scan widescreen it would be different, but it isn't.
...That seems like a bit of a stretch to me, somehow. How does removing scenes(whether or not you LIKE the scenes) and slapping a new name on it make it a new product, exactly? I mean, it's still the same footage. So the standards of cutting footage should still apply?

It's pretty much universally agreed that filler in DBZ sucks. People wanted a fillerless version of the anime, and this is it. This is the only way to get it outside of editing it together yourself.

Super Ghost Kamikaze · Post by **Super Ghost Kamikaze** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 2:47 pm

So, are we accepting cropping, selective or not, just because the filler is out?

I don't know about you guys, but I'm pretty happy with the majority of filler off Namek.

Tweaker · Post by **Tweaker** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 2:48 pm

TheGreatness25 wrote:I just LOVE how so many fans were absolutely bashing and destroying FUNimation's cropped sets... And Toei turns around and does damn near the same thing three years later.

This, basically.

Toei is doing the exact same thing that FUNimation did--with a few exceptions here and there, of course--and all of a sudden it's totally acceptable? I mean, I get the lack of filler and all that and I agree with, but seriously? The consistency of response to announcements in this fanbase seem to have a lot less to do with actual quality (or lack thereof) and more to do with a long-standing bias against FUNimation and anything they produce. Which is kind of stupid, really.

In terms of watching the show in its entirety, I personally prefer the full picture. In terms of the remastering, though, the colors are looking pretty awesome, and they've managed to restore the footage pretty well! I'm a little disappointed by how blurry and bright the outlines are, but I suppose that's not as big of a deal as it could be; I'm content with it.

I can't wait to see the opening and ending remakes! They're bound to look fantastic.

TheGreatness25 · Post by **TheGreatness25** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 2:49 pm

Nope, neither of the scenes that I put up before (fixed now, and I will put them here again) pan out.

It's funny. Toei did the opposite of FUNimation while doing the same thing lol It's pretty much the same cropping, one is selective, one is retarded, but it's still pretty much the same thing. FUNimation touted about Widescreen and HD (1080p) transfers, so does Toei. FUNimation touted about added footage on the sides, so does Toei. This is where the opposite part is true, FUNimation boasted about how it would have the ORIGINAL JAPANESE AUDIO, and Toei is boasting about new redone audio... So like one had new audio and all to begin with and went back to the old, and the other had old audio and is now doing new. Depends where you stand as a fan, I'm sure it'll be the same dialog, it's probably done to have Japanese in 5.1.

What next? Will the release of Dragon Ball Kai have a Japanese former porno director sitting there talking about how much picture you gain and how much grain and dirt was cleaned off? ...Yeah...especially from the Dragon Box and R2 DVDs :-p

And wasn't the filler cut out of the old Ocean dub version of the series? There was no Launch and no robot that Gohan meets and whatnot. So I guess you can say that too. And yet not a lot of people like that the series was cut :-p

The difference is while FUNimation did this three years ago and the overall collective idea was that this was BS, just good because it's cheap, Toei is doing it three years later and...well...selective cropping is still cropping. And besides, while FUNimation has all 291 episodes coming out, this will have 100. It's nice that all the filler is cut out, but...hey, I mean it's still the anime and filler was part of the anime. Besides, this release of 100 episodes will probably cost more than all 291 of FUNimation's. I am somewhat glad that I have the Season Sets now and I won't be dying to get these like I am Dragon Boxes. The only thing is, turn the brightness down on the TV, fast forward through filler, and bam, it's Dragon Ball Kai. I'd just download the new opening and closing themes off Youtube and I'll be right as rain.

That is, of course, merely my opinion though. And if others are excited about this, then I'm glad that you are

I just feel like it's another kick to the series.

MagicBox · Post by **MagicBox** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 2:59 pm

Tweaker wrote:Toei is doing the exact same thing that FUNimation did--with a few exceptions here and there, of course--and all of a sudden it's totally acceptable? The consistency of response to announcements in this fanbase seem to have a lot less to do with actual quality (or lack thereof) and more to do with a long-standing bias against FUNimation and anything they produce. Which is kind of stupid, really.

Oh no, I hate how this is going to be the most popular argument regarding this series. We're in for a long two years...

To copy/paste my repsonce to the apparent "hypocrisy" from the FUNi Forums:

"The thing is, though, is that it's different. It's not just okay because Toei is doing it. There's a huge difference in what FUNi did ten years ago and what Toei's doing now. FUNi was hacking out scenes and releasing it as the ONLY version of the show. Toei, however, has made the entire 291-episode series available completely uncut and unedited. They may be hacking out scenes and editing the series down, but they're doing this as a BONUS project. We're being given a choice. FUNi didn't give us a choice; that's why fans were PO'ed.

Hell, if FUNi released all 291 episodes and then decided to edit the series down to follow the manga precisely, I'd be just as excited for that as I am for this. So it's not a case of "whatever FUNi does is stupid and whatever Toei does is great." It's not like that. I personally dislike Toei, but I'm still excited.

Regarding the new music, why will it be bad if it's changed? GT had different music and it's almost unanimously praised by fans. I don't see how it would be annoying if everybody liked the new orchestral score. If it's good music, then why shouldn't we like it?

If you're using the reaction to the dub music as an excuse to be annoyed, you need to remember, most of the dub music as a whole wasn't good. I know some people like the Faulconer music, but what about Menza's score? Johnson's? Almost every fan, dubbie or dubbie, hates that music. Faulconer's music wasn't bad by any means, IMO. It just didn't suit the series and was a rapid departure from what fans wanted DB to be. That's why fans were annoyed. If this new score is good and suits the series, I don't see why fans can't be happy.

So I don't understand. Why is the "if you like these changes, you're a hypocrite" stuff already starting? This is a completely different show. The original 291 episode series is readily available, so why doesn't Toei have the right to experiment? Both the music changes and the cutting are perfectly fine because Toei is releasing this new series as an OPTION. FUNi didn't do that; they released their new music and cut version as the only one. That's the difference.

While I perfectly understand where people are coming from, it's not the same."

B · Post by B » Sun Mar 01, 2009 3:02 pm

Toei's cropping is a bit more forgivable due to the fact the picture is being cleaned up and they're not slapping black bars over footage, they're cutting it away so it looks less awkward..

But whatever, pointless debates about the hypocrisy of fans is cool too.

NeptuneKai · Post by **NeptuneKai** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 3:03 pm

My attitude is going to seem hypocritical in a "I don't care" sort of way but for the record I stopped caring that Funi was doing it around season 3. The clean up looks nice but call me over when we have some edited footage. The actual changes in the episodes is what I'm most interested in.

JAPPO · Post by **JAPPO** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 3:05 pm

It's worse than Star Wars and all its re-releases. "OMG NEW REMASTER SPECIAL EFFECTS LAWL."

Do we really need another re-release? I hope for the best but I'm not excited.

Tweaker · Post by **Tweaker** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 3:08 pm

MagicBox wrote:*words*

I'm not interested in getting into some long-running debate about this crap, and I already covered the fact that the filler makes it somewhat differing from the official releases.

What you're ignoring in your long-running justification of biased discernment between releases is the fact that, when it comes right down to the meat of it all, it is the same show. Bar the redone openings and endings, every single frame of animation you will ever witness in Dragon Ball Kai will have been aired back when the original show was in syndication.

The advantage to the new release is the new footage on the sides (also present in the FUNimation Season Sets), the remastered footage, the superior color choice, and the remastered and re-recorded audio. These are all valid advantages that Kai will have over Z, but bear in mind that these changes are not significant enough to justify going out and calling it a "new show." For all intents and purposes, it is an edit and remaster, if that makes any sense. A re-airing with changes. A revision.

Let me stress more than anything else that I am not against the concept of this series. I'm merely pointing out the rather hilarious irony in the fanbase's response to this release compared to FUNimation's releases of a similar caliber. I'll continue to be optimistic about this development and I'm eager to see it come to fruition.

TheGreatness25 · Post by **TheGreatness25** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 3:12 pm

B wrote:Toei's cropping is a bit more forgivable due to the fact the picture is being cleaned up and they're not slapping black bars over footage, they're cutting it away so it looks less awkward..

But whatever, pointless debates about the hypocrisy of fans is cool too.

The only difference in cropping is that Toei's is selective. But I've said it before, most scenes from the Season Sets were not severely interfered with by their cropping. Yes, there were instances where heads and feet were chopped off, but that is inevitable in this series as well. Like the Ginyu Force. No matter what version it is, FUNimation's or Toei's, someone's head will be gone, either Burter's or Guldo's.

And FUNimation did not just "slap black bars" onto the picture. It's completely cut out. Hence why on HDTVs the picture is full across the entire TV instead of with black bars on the sides and vertically.

And please lets not argue. And lets not throw the word "hypocrite" around. Lets not kill this Thread with arguments. People are just stating opinions, I don't know where the hostility came from MagicBox

It's all good.

And plus, now we have a choice with Toei, because the singles are pretty available...but are they to the US fans? And what about costs? And will the story be the same in a year with the singles? FUNimation gave us a choice for the most part too with the singles. Sure, (good job guys >_>) we don't have a chunk of the "Vegeta Saga" or "Namek Saga", but Dragon Ball, the rest of Dragon Ball Z, and Dragon Ball GT are available in their entirety, granted that you'd have to get the first Dragon Ball DVD from Australia. We just don't feel like we have a choice anymore because hunting all of those singles/boxsets down is like going on a tactical mission, but maybe it'll be the same with Toei a year from now.

JulieYBM · Post by **JulieYBM** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 3:16 pm

Hey, so long as the remastering doesn't look painfully bad (FUNi release) and the cropping is careful, I'm okay.

Dragonball Kai ≠ Dragonball Z

B · Post by B » Sun Mar 01, 2009 3:18 pm

Everyone else is basically throwing the word around.

"OH MAN TOEI IS DOING WHAT FUNI IS DOING HUR HUR AND EVERYONE'S LUVIN DIS SHIT, BUT WHEN FUNI DID IT YA'LL WUZ BITCHAN HUR URF URF"

People are calling the bullshit of the purist fans, but we don't need to hear it over and over and over. I don't give a shit if people are biased against FUNimation. If you don't agree with the changes being made in Kai, fine. But don't sit there and attempt to derail the thread with "u gaiz r totul hippokritz!!11eleven!"

TheMajinRedComet · Post by **TheMajinRedComet** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 3:19 pm

Either way it is Dragonball and we should be happy that it is still around. Hell, sadly we will never get a Yu Yu Hakusho remaster or a Jump movie special thing.

MagicBox · Post by **MagicBox** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 3:20 pm

TheGreatness25 wrote:People are just stating opinions, I don't know where the hostility came from MagicBox It's all good.

I didn't mean for it to come off as hostility. It was just my opinion too. I'm not mad at anybody.

And y'all are right. It's not worth arguing over. Just wanted to throw my two cents in. The last thing I want is to derail this thread.

TheGreatness25 · Post by **TheGreatness25** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 3:23 pm

I guess it's those fans that are into what FUNimation did and they felt like nobody was backing them, and this comes along, so it's their chance to strike back. Point is, "striking back" is...well...pointless. I guess some fans feel like it's a notch in their favor finally over the purists.

I never went into people liking it or whatever, because there are a lot that are content with the Season Sets. I'm just saying that it's funny that Toei would do it. I'm not talking about a fan's perspective. It's just one thing that gets me. For three years so many people have put down what FUNimation did. I mean, I don't know if Toei heard about it or whatever, but why would they venture down the same path? Now if they were to redraw the scenes (which is the idea that was thrown around in the beginning), then it would be a totally different story, TKO, home run, three-pointer, touchdown Toei. But they're not. So it makes me wonder...why?

Anyway, please guys, lets not argue. Nobody's calling anyone a hypocrite on here, that I've seen. I don't know what's going on in the FUNimation Forums. Here, for the most part people are just saying that it's similar to FUNimation, which really can't be denied. I mean anyone who thinks it's a "whole brand new show" is not being truthful.

Tweaker · Post by **Tweaker** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 3:28 pm

Yeah, not once did I ever say the word "hypocrite" in any of my posts. That term seems to have been inferred from me poking fun at inconsistency that I've noticed. It's irony, as far as I'm concerned, and I don't really think less of anyone for it.

For the record, though...

Dragonball Kai ≠ Dragonball Z

I disagree with this. If I took the footage from Dragon Ball Z, smeared shit all over it, and re-aired it 20 years after its original syndication, would you call that a new series?

It's a bit of an overexaggerated example, but it does illustrate a good point--deep down, Kai really is just an edited version of Dragon Ball Z. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but still.

JulieYBM · Post by **JulieYBM** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 3:35 pm

I think you're taking me far to literal. Kai might be a reedit, however the original is out there. It's not unavailable, you can still buy it.

This is almost akin to the Gundam: 8th MS Team special, which took material from the original series, but reedited and added to it. Now, Kai is highly unlikely to have whole new materials added to it, however it does set itself apart from DBZ fair enough.

B · Post by B » Sun Mar 01, 2009 3:36 pm

I wasn't being literal. There's posts scattered across this thread such as "we're accepting cropping this time?" or "when Toei does it, it's okay?"

It's a pointless argument that needs to be put down with some lethal injection. Now.

TheGreatness25 · Post by **TheGreatness25** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 3:41 pm

But you gotta admit that this will be an argument that loyalists bring up. Loyalists always put down the FUNimation stuff and now, I don't see anything wrong with the dubbies having something to sling back at them. I'm not saying that this is necessarily a good thing, but it will happen and as long as it's not turning into huge arguments it's fine. It's just an observation. That a lot of people are accepting this, when, really, what it kinda is, is the Season Sets with the brightness turned down, a new opening, and cut out scenes.