Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #1 Thread: "Broly"

[CTAkuma]

It's not only their fault, Toriyama is to blame too. Apparently Toei suggested a lot of ideas but Toriyama rejected all of them and they came to agreement in making a movie about the Saiyans. When that was decided, Broly's popularity came up and originated this movie.

I would like to know what kind of ideas Toei originally had for this movie.

And that's a good thing, wether people on here dislike Broli or not, he needed to be canon in the series since he is way too popular to just leave in the background and not try something new with him.

Nothing needs to be canon. You could want something to be canon, but there's no need for it. Of all the different things they could do with a new movie, I feel like there's a variety of stories they could tell instead of just redoing Movie 8 + Minus with Gogeta.

If anything it's a cheap and easy way to get as many butts in seats as possible. I concede it's an simple way to make lots of money and that Brolli has a lot of fans, but I can't agree that making Brolli canon was a thing that needed to happen.

Not trying to be hostile but yes its time that Broli was canon and thus Gogeta too. Some things deserve to be canon and we will see more in the future with the possibility of Coola being added next. It being not creative or new is false since new things can be done with old concepts

[Chuquita]

And that's a good thing, wether people on here dislike Broli or not, he needed to be canon in the series since he is way too popular to just leave in the background and not try something new with him.

Nothing needs to be canon. You could want something to be canon, but there's no need for it. Of all the different things they could do with a new movie, I feel like there's a variety of stories they could tell instead of just redoing Movie 8 + Minus with Gogeta.

If anything it's a cheap and easy way to get as many butts in seats as possible. I concede it's an simple way to make lots of money and that Brolli has a lot of fans, but I can't agree that making Brolli canon was a thing that needed to happen.

Not trying to be hostile but yes its time that Broli was canon and thus Gogeta too. Some things deserve to be canon and we will see more in the future with the possibility of Coola being added next. It being not creative or new is false since new things can be done with old concepts

I get you're not trying to be hostile. I'm not either. It's still arguing semantics. You say deserve, but you mean want. You want them to be canon. And they will be canon because Shueisha and Toriyama decided so. I like Movie 8. I like Movie 12. I'm hungry for some new villains in a mainline Dragon Ball product. It seems like only the video games care to try it out to varying degrees of success.

I could say a film deserves an award, but ultimately it's all subjective. I'd say it's like how people want Bowsette in Smash Bros because she's a popular non-canon character (well, there's that scrapped similar character from Odyssey, but that went unused).

Are there other examples in other franchises where a character was canonized on popularity alone? Has Marvel or DC ever done something like what Shueisha and Toriyama are doing with Brolli?

[CTAkuma]

I get you're not trying to be hostile. I'm not either. It's still arguing semantics. You say deserve, but you mean want. You want them to be canon. And they will be canon because Shueisha and Toei decided so. I like Movie 8. I like Movie 12. I'm hungry for some new villains in a mainline Dragon Ball product. It seems like only the video games care to try it out to varying degrees of success.

I could say a film deserves an award, but ultimately it's all subjective. I'd say it's like how people want Bowsette in Smash Bros because she's a popular non-canon character (well, there's that scrapped similar character from Odyssey, but that went unused).

Are there other examples in other franchises where a character was canonized on popularity alone? Has Marvel or DC ever done something like what Shueisha and Toriyama are doing with Brolli?

I'm not implying its wrong to want completely new things in the series, but established ones like Broli who were there since the beginning and were polarizing characters deserved a shot in the canon. Also the Bowsette thing was fanmade, unofficial and was only made recently so its unfair to compare the two

As for Marvel i know old man Logan was in the 616 canon for a short time

[Noah]

I'm pretty sure you have no numbers to back up that claim. And not liking Minus because of an unealthy attachment to the Burdock special is very silly.

Well, you sure could pay more attention to this community, Saiyan Island, Reddit and YouTube before asking if I have numbers also there's no such thing as "Burdock".

Maybe I'm thinking more in the league of the rejected story ideas included in that Super Mario Odyssey book.

Like which?

[Chuquita]

Maybe I'm thinking more in the league of the rejected story ideas included in that Super Mario Odyssey book.

Like which?

Rosalina on guitar. The New Donk City version where the humans are the same size as Mario himself. The storyline where Bowser uses one of the hats to possess Peach. All this and more I found here: http://www.nintendo-difference.com/news ... oilees.htm

[AnimeNation101]

I get you're not trying to be hostile. I'm not either. It's still arguing semantics. You say deserve, but you mean want. You want them to be canon. And they will be canon because Shueisha and Toei decided so. I like Movie 8. I like Movie 12. I'm hungry for some new villains in a mainline Dragon Ball product. It seems like only the video games care to try it out to varying degrees of success.

I could say a film deserves an award, but ultimately it's all subjective. I'd say it's like how people want Bowsette in Smash Bros because she's a popular non-canon character (well, there's that scrapped similar character from Odyssey, but that went unused).

Are there other examples in other franchises where a character was canonized on popularity alone? Has Marvel or DC ever done something like what Shueisha and Toriyama are doing with Brolli?

I'm not implying its wrong to want completely new things in the series, but established ones like Broli who were there since the beginning and were polarizing characters deserved a shot in the canon. Also the Bowsette thing was fanmade, unofficial and was only made recently so its unfair to compare the two

As for Marvel i know old man Logan was in the 616 canon for a short time

What makes them “deserve” to be canon? Why would a certain villain be entitled to becoming canon just because its popular? And even if the villain gets a reboot, it will still, at its core, be yet another unoriginal idea. Unless they change the villain’s personality and backstory to the point that they basically aren’t even the same character at all anymore in which, at that point, they’re basically just slapping the name of a famous villain onto basically a new character for the hype it would generate.

So you either get a lazy idea or an obvious cash-grab. And hell, most of the movie villains are already cheap knock offs of main villains in Dragon Ball anyway. So its actually either a lazy idea based off of a cheap knock off or an obvious cash grab.

And we have so much more untouched material that could be used instead too.

[Chuquita]

I get you're not trying to be hostile. I'm not either. It's still arguing semantics. You say deserve, but you mean want. You want them to be canon. And they will be canon because Shueisha and Toei decided so. I like Movie 8. I like Movie 12. I'm hungry for some new villains in a mainline Dragon Ball product. It seems like only the video games care to try it out to varying degrees of success.

I could say a film deserves an award, but ultimately it's all subjective. I'd say it's like how people want Bowsette in Smash Bros because she's a popular non-canon character (well, there's that scrapped similar character from Odyssey, but that went unused).

Are there other examples in other franchises where a character was canonized on popularity alone? Has Marvel or DC ever done something like what Shueisha and Toriyama are doing with Brolli?

I'm not implying its wrong to want completely new things in the series, but established ones like Broli who were there since the beginning and were polarizing characters deserved a shot in the canon. Also the Bowsette thing was fanmade, unofficial and was only made recently so its unfair to compare the two

As for Marvel i know old man Logan was in the 616 canon for a short time

Instead of Bowsette, maybe...something more like how people are trying to get Goku into Smash Bros? Or maybe the people trying to get Waluigi into Smash Bros?

Brolli's still in that same grey area for me that GT and the rest of the Z movies are. I feel like you can like something without it being canon just like you can dislike stuff that is canon despite it being canon. Does it justify the liking of something for some people if that thing becomes canon? Maybe because I don't have anything that's non-canon that I want to be canon that badly that it's hard for me to relate to that feeling. I think I'm at an impasse here.

Maybe I'm thinking more in the league of the rejected story ideas included in that Super Mario Odyssey book.

Like which?

Rosalina on guitar. The New Donk City version where the humans are the same size as Mario himself. The storyline where Bowser uses one of the hats to possess Peach. All this and more I found here: http://www.nintendo-difference.com/news ... oilees.htm

[Noah]

Rosalina on guitar. The New Donk City version where the humans are the same size as Mario himself. The storyline where Bowser uses one of the hats to possess Peach. All this and more I found here: http://www.nintendo-difference.com/news ... oilees.htm

Oh it seems you quoted me twice but interesting, some of these concepts could have improved the game in my view, did you liked Odyssey?

[CTAkuma]

What makes them “deserve” to be canon? Why would a certain villain be entitled to becoming canon just because its popular? And even if the villain gets a reboot, it will still, at its core, be yet another unoriginal idea. Unless they change the villain’s personality and backstory to the point that they basically aren’t even the same character at all anymore in which, at that point, they’re basically just slapping the name of a famous villain onto basically a new character for the hype it would generate.

So you either get a lazy idea or an obvious cash-grab. And hell, most of the movie villains are already cheap knock offs of main villains in Dragon Ball anyway. So its actually either a lazy idea based off of a cheap knock off or an obvious cash grab.

And we have so much more untouched material that could be used instead too.

Because they are good ideas, good ideas which are popular too, making them canon means you can expand upon them and do new things with them. Calling something lazy just because it takes from old things is flat out wrong, again old concepts can be made into fresh and more fun things.

Instead of Bowsette, maybe...something more like how people are trying to get Goku into Smash Bros? Or maybe the people trying to get Waluigi into Smash Bros?

Brolli's still in that same grey area for me that GT and the rest of the Z movies are. I feel like you can like something without it being canon just like you can dislike stuff that is canon despite it being canon. Does it justify the liking of something for some people if that thing becomes canon? Maybe because I don't have anything that's non-canon that I want to be canon that badly that it's hard for me to relate to that feeling. I think I'm at an impasse here.

I always wanted Broli canon, there was just untapped potential that could have been realised in that environment

[AnimeNation101]

What makes them “deserve” to be canon? Why would a certain villain be entitled to becoming canon just because its popular? And even if the villain gets a reboot, it will still, at its core, be yet another unoriginal idea. Unless they change the villain’s personality and backstory to the point that they basically aren’t even the same character at all anymore in which, at that point, they’re basically just slapping the name of a famous villain onto basically a new character for the hype it would generate.

So you either get a lazy idea or an obvious cash-grab. And hell, most of the movie villains are already cheap knock offs of main villains in Dragon Ball anyway. So its actually either a lazy idea based off of a cheap knock off or an obvious cash grab.

And we have so much more untouched material that could be used instead too.

Because they are good ideas, good ideas which are popular too, making them canon means you can expand upon them and do new things with them. Calling something lazy just because it takes from old things is flat out wrong, again old concepts can be made into fresh and more fun things.

Instead of Bowsette, maybe...something more like how people are trying to get Goku into Smash Bros? Or maybe the people trying to get Waluigi into Smash Bros?

Brolli's still in that same grey area for me that GT and the rest of the Z movies are. I feel like you can like something without it being canon just like you can dislike stuff that is canon despite it being canon. Does it justify the liking of something for some people if that thing becomes canon? Maybe because I don't have anything that's non-canon that I want to be canon that badly that it's hard for me to relate to that feeling. I think I'm at an impasse here.

I always wanted Broli canon, there was just untapped potential that could have been realised in that environment

Cooler was a “good idea”. He was literally a carbon copy of Freeza. Just like Lord Slug was for Demon King Piccolo. And Janemba for Buu. These ideas are already unoriginal. But using them again? That’s LAZY. At least Broly wasn’t a copy of another character so this isn’t nearly as lazy but these other characters i listed? Lazy. Taking an already unoriginal idea and using it again (even if you expand on it) rather than just creating a whole new idea is LAZY. It wouldn’t be taking from old things. It would be taking old things that were already taken from other things and just adding some stuff. But in the end, it will still be the same character at its core.

If Super 2.0 is just a string of old villains getting rebooted than that means Dragon Ball is going backwards. We get this whole revelation of 12 other universes and 17 might have even brought back the 6 others and instead of exploring even 1, we go backwards to reboot old movie villains.

[Xeztin]

I’ve seen people comparing the mystery character to Cooler. (The blacked out character alongside Broly, SSG Vegeta, and Goku) It honestly looks just like Cooler! I don’t know if it is concidence but if they use him he might be cannon as well o.o

[CTAkuma]

Cooler was a “good idea”. He was literally a carbon copy of Freeza. Just like Lord Slug was for Demon King Piccolo. And Janemba for Buu. These ideas are already unoriginal. But using them again? That’s LAZY. At least Broly wasn’t a copy of another character so this isn’t nearly as lazy but these other characters i listed? Lazy. Taking an already unoriginal idea and using it again (even if you expand on it) rather than just creating a whole new idea is LAZY. It wouldn’t be taking from old things. It would be taking old things that are were already taken from other things.

If Super 2.0 is just a string of old villains getting rebooted than that means Dragon Ball is going backwards. We get this whole revelation of 12 other universes and 17 might have even brought back the 6 others and instead of exploring even 1, we go backwards to reboot old movie villains.

When did i imply that i was against new things or that the next Super series should only have old villains? I just think the old movie villains have untapped potential and Broli was the main guy behind those

[FortuneSSJ]

I’ve seen people comparing the mystery character to Cooler. (The blacked out character alongside Broly, SSG Vegeta, and Goku) It honestly looks just like Cooler! I don’t know if it is concidence but if they use him he might be cannon as well o.o

That's a default silhouette most likely. The character may not look like that.

You should say "canon" if anything. "It was never real" is not the best way to describe it, because that TV Special does exist. It's not a dream or an illusion.
I can't agree that Minus is actually how things unfold, because it's 20+ years late, contradicts the manga, and that story was already told in the past.

Both are canonical, though. You know what I mean by it "not being real".

I understand you not liking it but what does it having been written decades after the fact and its story already having been told by Toei have to do with anything? As far as I'm aware, it doesn't contradcit the manga so the other points are kinda moot...

It does. In DB Minus Goku wasn't sent away when he was a baby, but when he was 3 years old:

Spoiler:

He also wasn't sent away with a mission or because he was a low-class, but because his parents wanted to protected him which makes Raditz and Vegeta wrong:

Spoiler:

[AnimeNation101]

Cooler was a “good idea”. He was literally a carbon copy of Freeza. Just like Lord Slug was for Demon King Piccolo. And Janemba for Buu. These ideas are already unoriginal. But using them again? That’s LAZY. At least Broly wasn’t a copy of another character so this isn’t nearly as lazy but these other characters i listed? Lazy. Taking an already unoriginal idea and using it again (even if you expand on it) rather than just creating a whole new idea is LAZY. It wouldn’t be taking from old things. It would be taking old things that are were already taken from other things.

If Super 2.0 is just a string of old villains getting rebooted than that means Dragon Ball is going backwards. We get this whole revelation of 12 other universes and 17 might have even brought back the 6 others and instead of exploring even 1, we go backwards to reboot old movie villains.

When did i imply that i was against new things or that the next Super series should only have old villains? I just think the old movie villains have untapped potential and Broli was the main guy behind those

I didn’t say you said there was nothing wrong with new ideas. As for Super 2.0, it would only make sense that the next arcs would be in Super 2.0 so you saying that you want other movie villains rebooted is basically asking for arcs with them being rebooted which would naturally mean having Super 2.0 would have a bunch of arcs for rebooting movie villains.

[CTAkuma]

Cooler was a “good idea”. He was literally a carbon copy of Freeza. Just like Lord Slug was for Demon King Piccolo. And Janemba for Buu. These ideas are already unoriginal. But using them again? That’s LAZY. At least Broly wasn’t a copy of another character so this isn’t nearly as lazy but these other characters i listed? Lazy. Taking an already unoriginal idea and using it again (even if you expand on it) rather than just creating a whole new idea is LAZY. It wouldn’t be taking from old things. It would be taking old things that are were already taken from other things.

If Super 2.0 is just a string of old villains getting rebooted than that means Dragon Ball is going backwards. We get this whole revelation of 12 other universes and 17 might have even brought back the 6 others and instead of exploring even 1, we go backwards to reboot old movie villains.

When did i imply that i was against new things or that the next Super series should only have old villains? I just think the old movie villains have untapped potential and Broli was the main guy behind those

I didn’t say you said there was nothing wrong with new ideas. As for Super 2.0, it would only make sense that the next arcs would be in Super 2.0 so you saying that you want other movie villains rebooted is basically asking for arcs with them being rebooted which would naturally mean having Super 2.0 would have a bunch of arcs for rebooting movie villains.

Outside of Coola and Janemba there aren't really that popular movie villains, maybe Tullece too going from Japanese popularity but that seems unlikely. I said i wanted them canon in the future and by "in the future" i don't mean the next arc after Broli is Coola or Janemba

[Toxin45]

What makes them “deserve” to be canon? Why would a certain villain be entitled to becoming canon just because its popular? And even if the villain gets a reboot, it will still, at its core, be yet another unoriginal idea. Unless they change the villain’s personality and backstory to the point that they basically aren’t even the same character at all anymore in which, at that point, they’re basically just slapping the name of a famous villain onto basically a new character for the hype it would generate.

So you either get a lazy idea or an obvious cash-grab. And hell, most of the movie villains are already cheap knock offs of main villains in Dragon Ball anyway. So its actually either a lazy idea based off of a cheap knock off or an obvious cash grab.

And we have so much more untouched material that could be used instead too.

Because they are good ideas, good ideas which are popular too, making them canon means you can expand upon them and do new things with them. Calling something lazy just because it takes from old things is flat out wrong, again old concepts can be made into fresh and more fun things.

Instead of Bowsette, maybe...something more like how people are trying to get Goku into Smash Bros? Or maybe the people trying to get Waluigi into Smash Bros?

Brolli's still in that same grey area for me that GT and the rest of the Z movies are. I feel like you can like something without it being canon just like you can dislike stuff that is canon despite it being canon. Does it justify the liking of something for some people if that thing becomes canon? Maybe because I don't have anything that's non-canon that I want to be canon that badly that it's hard for me to relate to that feeling. I think I'm at an impasse here.

I always wanted Broli canon, there was just untapped potential that could have been realised in that environment

Cooler was a “good idea”. He was literally a carbon copy of Freeza. Just like Lord Slug was for Demon King Piccolo. And Janemba for Buu. These ideas are already unoriginal. But using them again? That’s LAZY. At least Broly wasn’t a copy of another character so this isn’t nearly as lazy but these other characters i listed? Lazy. Taking an already unoriginal idea and using it again (even if you expand on it) rather than just creating a whole new idea is LAZY. It wouldn’t be taking from old things. It would be taking old things that were already taken from other things and just adding some stuff. But in the end, it will still be the same character at its core.

If Super 2.0 is just a string of old villains getting rebooted than that means Dragon Ball is going backwards. We get this whole revelation of 12 other universes and 17 might have even brought back the 6 others and instead of exploring even 1, we go backwards to reboot old movie villains.

The new universes would just have some expires of movie characters anyway. Also what universe wanted to be explored hey probably won't have any villains with the exception of universe 11.

[alakazam^]

Well, you sure could pay more attention to this community, Saiyan Island, Reddit and YouTube before asking if I have numbers also there's no such thing as "Burdock".

I don't need to pay more attention to all those places to know they aren't 51% of the fanbase. So no, you don't have the numbers that prove your claim.

Sure there is.

I'm not implying its wrong to want completely new things in the series, but established ones like Broli who were there since the beginning

Broli was hardly in the franchise since the beginning...

It does. In DB Minus Goku wasn't sent away when he was a baby, but when he was 3 years old:

He also wasn't sent away with a mission or because he was a low-class, but because his parents wanted to protected him which makes Raditz and Vegeta wrong:

Radits and Vegeeta aren't reliable, they weren't present at the time and are only parroting what they know of their society.

[mahakaishin1991]

I’ve seen people comparing the mystery character to Cooler. (The blacked out character alongside Broly, SSG Vegeta, and Goku) It honestly looks just like Cooler! I don’t know if it is concidence but if they use him he might be cannon as well o.o

Dont take it at face value, we got a similar blacked out design for a character in the TOP and it turned out it was just an random blank figure replaced with Kefla in the merch line

[Toxin45]

What new concepts and universe to explore I think it would be too much for toriyama and toei to show to explore and create new villains

[Chuquita]

Rosalina on guitar. The New Donk City version where the humans are the same size as Mario himself. The storyline where Bowser uses one of the hats to possess Peach. All this and more I found here: http://www.nintendo-difference.com/news ... oilees.htm

Oh it seems you quoted me twice but interesting, some of these concepts could have improved the game in my view, did you liked Odyssey?

I did enjoy Odyssey. The New Donk City set pieces were some of my favorites. I loved having a huge variety of settings to explore in the various stages. Even the water levels weren't so bad; I even enjoyed them!

That said a bunch of these rejected ideas sound fun too and I'd like them in Odyssey.

If I have anything negative to say about it...there's not much replayability after you beat the game outside of the collectithon stuff. I'm not the type to 100% games that often unless there's an unlockable I really want.