ShadowDude112 wrote:Kaiser, I thought you said you guys were going to leave out Kuririn's Kienzan not working on Cell. Why did you leave it in?
Okay, so... here's some behind the scenes stuff:
Our original joke was to have Trunks and Vegeta arguing with each other while Kuririn used the attack. It would then literally cut off Cell's head, but it would regrow before either Trunks or Vegeta could notice, and before Kuririn could say anything, he'd be knocked out.
Unfortunately, between the animation assets, the writing complications of working around only Kuririn knowing about his regenerative abilities, and the lack of scene necessary for Vegeta and Trunks to have their argument... we decided against it. Lani also made the argument that Kuririn deserved an attempt at revenge in order to strengthen/main the Kuririn's character, even if the attack was futile.
It really shouldn't count as an Own. This is a moment where one of the strongest attacks in the series fails. That's not an owning, that's a testament to Cell's strength. ... even if I believe it's non-canon bullshit and I would have personally cut it.
Doctor. wrote:I'm just surprised that TFS would actually use Falcouner themes. Not only one of them but two, in one episode! I thought the scene of Cell humming the Perfect Cell theme would have been the closest we'd get.
Well, it's not the first time they've used the Faulconer score as Piccolo's theme was used back when he and Nail fused.
Fun episode. Perfect Cell's personality is still a little vague aside from just very "confident" but I foresee great things from him.
As much as I dislike the Faulconer music both musically and as a matter of principle, I don't mind it being used outside of an actual official dub. If you've got good places to use the better tracks, then go for it.
The described scene sounds nice. I wouldn't mind seeing that as a deleted scene some day. Oh well.
As for the Falconer score, I didn't mind it. I'm indifferent to the Falconer tracks, but that may be because it's been years since I heard them on the show. But if the music fits, it should be used. And it definately fit here.
No love for Gohan's Super Saiyan transformation? I was honestly not expecting the return of the 'Dodge' joke, and while that could have been forced in, it was actually really subtle. And I've got to give props to MasakoX for his scream as Gohan at the end. It was really intense.
Anyway, I didn't mind that you used the Faulconer score. At least, not for this scene. For many people, the Vegeta Super Saiyan theme is what MAKES this scene, even more than, say Goku going Super Saiyan. Basically, this, the SSJ3 transformation, and SSJ2 Gohan and Ultimate Gohan are the places where it'd be alright for the Faulconer score to be put in. (Although I'd REALLY prefer you put Unmei no Hi in the transformation scene. But maybe you could put Gohan's Anger sometime after that, just to satisfy people?)
Speaking of, props to AinTunez for his excellent remixes this episode. The Faulconer remix was much better than the original, and the mashup of Perfect Cell's theme and Hikari no Willpower was amazing and such a subtle reference. Loved it.
If I had a criticism, it's that I don't have grips of Perfect Cell's personality just yet. He's just the classic 'chewing the scenery' villain. Freeza had his unabashed villainy to set him apart at this point, but Cell doesn't have something unique like that. At least, not yet.
I could have gotten into anything...and yet I chose the story aimed at young Japanese boys about martial arts, and later about super-powerful aliens punching each other really hard.
MozillaVulpix wrote:No love for Gohan's Super Saiyan transformation? I was honestly not expecting the return of the 'Dodge' joke, and while that could have been forced in, it was actually really subtle. And I've got to give props to MasakoX for his scream as Gohan at the end. It was really intense.
Anyway, I didn't mind that you used the Faulconer score. At least, not for this scene. For many people, the Vegeta Super Saiyan theme is what MAKES this scene, even more than, say Goku going Super Saiyan. Basically, this, the SSJ3 transformation, and SSJ2 Gohan and Ultimate Gohan are the places where it'd be alright for the Faulconer score to be put in. (Although I'd REALLY prefer you put Unmei no Hi in the transformation scene. But maybe you could put Gohan's Anger sometime after that, just to satisfy people?)
Speaking of, props to AinTunez for his excellent remixes this episode. The Faulconer remix was much better than the original, and the mashup of Perfect Cell's theme and Hikari no Willpower was amazing and such a subtle reference. Loved it.
If I had a criticism, it's that I don't have grips of Perfect Cell's personality just yet. He's just the classic 'chewing the scenery' villain. Freeza had his unabashed villainy to set him apart at this point, but Cell doesn't have something unique like that. At least, not yet.
As far as Cell goes, I believe that, in one of the podcasts, they described him as a "showman".
An interesting episode, I guess... But didn't Kaiser said that they wouldn't use filler Kienzan scene?
Also they used a Bruce Faulconer? I always though they didn't like it all
"Oh shit" was priceless, I totally saw that coming!
EDIT: Oh! He explained before
Anyway... I have no problem with Faulconer tracks, but I really would like if they used some Shunsuke Kikuchi BGMfor Cellscenes, I just love those tracks!
Last edited by Noah on Tue Feb 16, 2016 8:52 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Are we too old to enjoy new Dragon Ball movies/series?
Spoiler:
Nickolaidas wrote: Sun Jun 14, 2015 2:10 am
Guys, I'm going to be straight with you. If you feel the show has gotten 'silly' ... it hasn't. You're just 'too old for this shit'. Seriously, 95% of the people in those boards do not fit the target demographic of the show, so don't expect the show to be 'everything you hoped for'. I'm referring to the people here who expect Super to be rich with dark moments, serious storytelling, meaningful characters etc etc. It won't. It's a show for kids. A show for kids being kids. Everyone in those boards has a manchild in him/her, clamoring to get out, and that's fine. But having unrealistic expectations (such as believing the show grew up alongside you) is naïve at best. Honestly, do you take seriously a story where the supposed God of Destruction halts his urges to blow up stuff in order to eat ice cream sundae? That's the show's silliness at full force, take it for what it is. The show hasn't matured one bit, so don't expect it too. Again, I'm not saying that's a bad thing. I'm saying *that* is DB and always will be.
There are two bits from the Faulconer score I actually like: Vegeta's themes and Perfect Cell's. I really consider it a crying shame Funimation totally butchered the use of "Cell Returns" by not using it at the end of episode 188, instead having the dramatic reveal of Perfect Cell's return be backed by that useless piece-of-shit episode-ending cue that has no fucking reason to exist.
Anyway, I definitely enjoyed this episode. I'm fine with the Krillin bit as-is (though I can understand Kaiser's argument regarding the kienzan), though the hair-on-fire gag at the end fell a little flat for me. I mean, we get it, Goku can be really oblivious. This is a character whose canon version used to pat crotches because he couldn't figure out the difference between boys and girls. Still, it's not like it ruined the episode for me or anything.
DanielSSJ wrote:...SSJ2 Gohan and Ultimate Gohan are the places where it'd be alright for the Faulconer score to be put in. (Although I'd REALLY prefer you put Unmei no Hi in the transformation scene. But maybe you could put Gohan's Anger sometime after that, just to satisfy people?)
I think Unmei No Hi is just perfect for this scene and as for Ultimate Gohan arrival, that Faulconer track is just perfect for that moment IMO
Are we too old to enjoy new Dragon Ball movies/series?
Spoiler:
Nickolaidas wrote: Sun Jun 14, 2015 2:10 am
Guys, I'm going to be straight with you. If you feel the show has gotten 'silly' ... it hasn't. You're just 'too old for this shit'. Seriously, 95% of the people in those boards do not fit the target demographic of the show, so don't expect the show to be 'everything you hoped for'. I'm referring to the people here who expect Super to be rich with dark moments, serious storytelling, meaningful characters etc etc. It won't. It's a show for kids. A show for kids being kids. Everyone in those boards has a manchild in him/her, clamoring to get out, and that's fine. But having unrealistic expectations (such as believing the show grew up alongside you) is naïve at best. Honestly, do you take seriously a story where the supposed God of Destruction halts his urges to blow up stuff in order to eat ice cream sundae? That's the show's silliness at full force, take it for what it is. The show hasn't matured one bit, so don't expect it too. Again, I'm not saying that's a bad thing. I'm saying *that* is DB and always will be.
dbzfan7 wrote:
Kaiser should have counted it, but he said earlier he didn't really want to do the Kienzan scene. I guess this was a compromise. We got the Kienzan scene, but not the full extent of it's potential humour.
"Should have" is subjective. I decided that the whole scene counted as 1 owned count. Especially considering this is Kuririn's most powerful attack (and one of the most powerful in the series), and Cell just took it head on. That's not Kuririn being owned, that's Cell being a monster.
Second, "full extent" of it's humor? I'm sorry, but I personally believe the KOC is one of the most tired, inane jokes in our show and I'm so happy that we've likely seen the last of it for a good long while. It hardly makes scenes funnier and has outlived it's humor to me.
Of course it's subjective. I don't think I need to post imo at the end of my sentences right? It's your show and your call.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
Am I the only one here who loved how Cell took all of Vegeta's insults and comebacks and literally threw them back in his face. He even pressed the Goku button again, although at the time it was broken from fear. XD
KaiserNeko wrote:
The only, only reason we used it is because we're using a completely remade version. It's an orchestral cover of the song that keeps the positive qualities of the original.
Hey...ever thought of releasing an OST soundtrack? How many tweets have you received about the violin remix from Super 13? How many do you think you'll receive when the masses find out this was another remake?
Daisetsu wrote:
Doctor. wrote:I'm just surprised that TFS would actually use Falcouner themes. Not only one of them but two, in one episode! I thought the scene of Cell humming the Perfect Cell theme would have been the closest we'd get.
Well, it's not the first time they've used the Faulconer score as Piccolo's theme was used back when he and Nail fused.
Is that right? I guess that one didn't have a strong effect on me back in the day, I wouldn't have known that was the first instance if you hadn't said something.
BlazingBarrrager wrote:Am I the only one here who loved how Cell took all of Vegeta's insults and comebacks and literally threw them back in his face. He even pressed the Goku button again, although at the time it was broken from fear. XD
You're not the only one. All of them made me happy because he had it coming after he let Cell transform. My favorite had to be the whole "Perfect or not me" comeback.
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MozillaVulpix wrote:No love for Gohan's Super Saiyan transformation? I was honestly not expecting the return of the 'Dodge' joke, and while that could have been forced in, it was actually really subtle. And I've got to give props to MasakoX for his scream as Gohan at the end. It was really intense.
I liked it. As well as the usage of Gohan's reoccurring game theme (in this case, it's the one from Butoden 2's arranged album if I'm not mistaken) during his internal monologue.
I don't get the Falconer hate at all, maybe because I grew up with the dub that used that music. It's not worse than the Japanese score IMO, just different.
As for the kienzan, I think what you did with it was fine.
I'm just looking forward to the introduction of Mr. Satan.
Cell dialogue was..Perfect Loved Gohan SSJ, it was done in spirit of original anime. Final Flash music was one of my favorite tracks in series, I'm glad to hear it here Goku singing to Dragon Soul tune
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I think that took the cake for me, even more than Goku's reintroducing "dodge" in most innocent way. The screaming was spot-on.
As far a "new" Perfect Cell goes, I would think the pivotal moments are going to be Trunks and Gohan; whenever he fights someone whose cells actually went into his genetic buffet he generally just bounces off of them. With Trunks and Gohan he lacked that connection, and since they were no bravado and all conscientiousness, he just swung right back into Piccolo/Vegeta/Freeza territory. At this point, Goku inspiring any emotion other than irritated confusion is going to be new.
JulieYBM wrote:
Pannaliciour wrote:Reading all the comments and interviews, my conclusion is: nobody knows what the hell is going on.
Loved Gohan SSJ, it was done in spirit of original anime. Final Flash music was one of my favorite tracks in series, I'm glad to hear it here 