"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[THEGOKU]

You aren't alone. While I think it is cool what he did I'm a bit let down about not seeing Goku Vs Black in this chapter if that happens to be the case.

Goku and Black need to stay away from each other in the present. It's their meeting that starts the whole causal loop plot hole in the anime.

Oh I completely agree with you. I was only referring to actually wanting to see the fight itself already.

[TheMikado]

You aren't alone. While I think it is cool what he did I'm a bit let down about not seeing Goku Vs Black in this chapter if that happens to be the case.

Goku and Black need to stay away from each other in the present. It's their meeting that starts the whole causal loop plot hole in the anime.

Pretty much this. Part of the problem is that is seems like Toei gave fans what they wanted, just a bunch of back to back fights. It looks like we will be taking some logical steps towards the explanation behind all this in the manga and I'm looking forward to a fair deeper interaction between Zamasu and Goku.

Edit: Hence see post above.

[ArchedThunder]

Plotting a story takes time, energy, enthusiasm and creativity. Those are not something one is going to be filled with all the time, especially when they've already clearly become less than enthused about a project like Toriyama has. It's entirely possible that Toriyama hasn't developed another storyline yet.

I HIGHLY doubt it. Toriyama probably finished the outline for the next arc back in June or July.

Goku and Black need to stay away from each other in the present. It's their meeting that starts the whole causal loop plot hole in the anime.

Paradoxes aren't plot holes, they're plot devices. The anime is using the paradox as a plot point, that's the whole point.

[THEGOKU]

You aren't alone. While I think it is cool what he did I'm a bit let down about not seeing Goku Vs Black in this chapter if that happens to be the case.

Goku and Black need to stay away from each other in the present. It's their meeting that starts the whole causal loop plot hole in the anime.

Pretty much this. Part of the problem is that is seems like Toei gave fans what they wanted, just a bunch of back to back fights. It looks like we will be taking some logical steps towards the explanation behind all this in the manga and I'm looking forward to a fair deeper interaction between Zamasu and Goku.

Edit: Hence see post above.

I'm sure that we will be getting that kind of experience and every detail being fleshed out. I would only assume that since the picture shows the battle vs Hit on Godtube Zamasu could see Goku using the form with God Ki and since he has to travel to fight Zamasu when they go to investigate it could be there that Goku uses SSG which makes Zamasu want to achieve a similar form when he becomes black.

[ekrolo2]

Paradoxes aren't plot holes, they're plot devices. The anime is using the paradox as a plot point, that's the whole point.

Plot devices can create lots of holes in stories, Dragon Ball is a good example of that. Future Trunks' future cannot exist the way it does unless you make everyone a moron or an asshole in the afterlife as they have plenty of ways to come back from being killed by 17 and 18.

[ArchedThunder]

Plot devices can create lots of holes in stories, Dragon Ball is a good example of that. Future Trunks' future cannot exist the way it does unless you make everyone a moron or an asshole in the afterlife as they have plenty of ways to come back from being killed by 17 and 18.

The paradox is not a plot hole, it's the back bone of the plot. Time paradoxes are a common plot device in time travel stories, the existence of a paradox is not a plot hole.

[TheMikado]

Plotting a story takes time, energy, enthusiasm and creativity. Those are not something one is going to be filled with all the time, especially when they've already clearly become less than enthused about a project like Toriyama has. It's entirely possible that Toriyama hasn't developed another storyline yet.

I HIGHLY doubt it. Toriyama probably finished the outline for the next arc back in June or July.

Goku and Black need to stay away from each other in the present. It's their meeting that starts the whole causal loop plot hole in the anime.

Paradoxes aren't plot holes, they're plot devices. The anime is using the paradox as a plot point, that's the whole point.

What makes you "HIGHLY" doubt that?
Also this isn't a paradox, it's a plot hole. There's a difference. Chicken or the egg is an example of a paradox. There is no missing information other than the answer to the paradox itself.

Let me also state the intention was to make a paradox but the attempt failed as it created an incomplete paradox and thus a plot hole.

[ArchedThunder]

What makes you "HIGHLY" doubt that?
Also this isn't a paradox, it's a plot hole. There's a difference. Chicken or the egg is an example of a paradox. There is no missing information other than the answer to the paradox itself.

Toriyama finished the Champa arc outline during the BoG arc and finished the Future Trunks arc outline at the beginning of the Champa arc. There's no way he hasn't written the next one yet, especially with the current arc coming to a close.

And yes, it is a paradox in the anime. For Goku Black to exist he needs to drive Trunks to the past to get help to fight Black.

Let me also state the intention was to make a paradox but the attempt failed as it created an incomplete paradox and thus a plot hole.

No, they explained it pretty well. Black is from the present timeline, but his history has been erased, but he was protected by the time ring.
And no, the lack of information in a story NOT a plot hole.

[TheDevilsCorpse]

It's both a plot device and a plot hole in the anime, as the depicted events are of an illogical progression that should not happen based on information that was established both before the fact and after it.

[Kanassa]

You aren't alone. While I think it is cool what he did I'm a bit let down about not seeing Goku Vs Black in this chapter if that happens to be the case.

That's not what's making me a bit mehy, it's just that the chapter seems like it's going to skip out on interesting emotional scenes like it did with F!Bulma's death. F!Trunks playing Gokart just seems... iffy.

And yes, it is a paradox in the anime. For Goku Black to exist he needs to drive Trunks to the past to get help to fight Black.

No, he really doesn't. All that needs to happen is Zamasu to fight Goku, there's nothing saying that Trunks needs to come to warn about Black for that to happen,

[TheMikado]

What makes you "HIGHLY" doubt that?
Also this isn't a paradox, it's a plot hole. There's a difference. Chicken or the egg is an example of a paradox. There is no missing information other than the answer to the paradox itself.

Toriyama finished the Champa arc outline during the BoG arc and finished the Future Trunks arc outline at the beginning of the Champa arc. There's no way he hasn't written the next one yet, especially with the current arc coming to a close.

And yes, it is a paradox in the anime. For Goku Black to exist he needs to drive Trunks to the past to get help to fight Black.

Let me also state the intention was to make a paradox but the attempt failed as it created an incomplete paradox and thus a plot hole.

No, they explained it pretty well. Black is from the present timeline, but his history has been erased, but he was protected by the time ring.
And no, the lack of information in a story NOT a plot hole.

I will use the chicken/egg paradox.

I will modify it to state that Chickens cannot produce fertile viable eggs, thus every time a chicken produces an egg nothing comes from that action.

That means at some point in history a viable chicken egg would have to have been laid to produce said chicken. Where did that egg come from and what was special about it. That's the issue we have with Zamasu, the current paradox should always lead to the events which terminate present Zamasu. At some point in time events transpired differently but we aren't told what those events are. That's the hole.

Also you state this arc is coming to a close so he must have finished it by now. You're using one assumption to support another assumption, do you see the fallacy in that? I'm just stating we don't know anything on what he's done or doing.

[OLKv3]

I knew Toyotaro would ignore the whole casual loop thing that the anime did. It doesn't match up with the established DB time travel

[Will]

You aren't alone. While I think it is cool what he did I'm a bit let down about not seeing Goku Vs Black in this chapter if that happens to be the case.

Goku and Black need to stay away from each other in the present. It's their meeting that starts the whole causal loop plot hole in the anime.

I don't think, there's a timeloop in the anime.

Black is Present Zamasu like they saud.
Present Zamasu could have first know Goku from Kibito like in the mangas, fight against him for another reason in Goku's timeline.
Then when Trunks arrived he altered Goku's timeline and Beerus killed Present Zamasu befire he could do anything.
And now Black only exist because of his time ring like Black said.

[GodVegetto91]

Cart racing!? Get the fuck outta here. That's awesome!

And something that I actually wanted.

Now THAT must be one of the biggest coincidences for you! xD

[dbzfan7]

Go kart Dragon Ball....oh that made my day.

[Lord Beerus]

Cart racing!? Get the fuck outta here. That's awesome!

And something that I actually wanted.

Now THAT must be one of the biggest coincidences for you! xD

I know right. Toyatoro must be a huge fan of Mario Kart like I am.

[kinisking]

Go kart Dragon Ball....oh that made my day.

I want it as a video game now haha. Although if the anime did it, a lot of people would be complaining.

[ekrolo2]

Go kart Dragon Ball....oh that made my day.

I want it as a video game now haha. Although if the anime did it, a lot of people would be complaining.

Speaking as a man who complains a lot, it means something when I say people need to quit their bitching sometimes.

[OLKv3]

Go kart Dragon Ball....oh that made my day.

I want it as a video game now haha. Although if the anime did it, a lot of people would be complaining.

Speaking as a man who complains a lot, it means something when I say people need to quit their bitching sometimes.

People praise the driving episode as one of the best fillers. I don't know where this whole "if it was the anime people would hate it" talk is coming from, because it's completely false.

[Gowasum]

The paradox is not a plot hole, it's the back bone of the plot. Time paradoxes are a common plot device in time travel stories, the existence of a paradox is not a plot hole.

What is this paradox you are talking about, I don´t get it. We have future Trunks and Black travelling back to the present starting the Beerus/Whis investigation on Zamasu. We know this event leads to Zamasu getting killed by Beerus. What are the events that lead to the creation of Black? It can´t be the same that we saw obviously, unless Zamasu already secretly wished to duplicate himself and has yet to kill Gowasu later.