Oh I completely agree with you. I was only referring to actually wanting to see the fight itself already.TheDevilsCorpse wrote:Goku and Black need to stay away from each other in the present. It's their meeting that starts the whole causal loop plot hole in the anime.THEGOKU wrote:You aren't alone. While I think it is cool what he did I'm a bit let down about not seeing Goku Vs Black in this chapter if that happens to be the case.
"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread
Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread
Pretty much this. Part of the problem is that is seems like Toei gave fans what they wanted, just a bunch of back to back fights. It looks like we will be taking some logical steps towards the explanation behind all this in the manga and I'm looking forward to a fair deeper interaction between Zamasu and Goku.TheDevilsCorpse wrote:Goku and Black need to stay away from each other in the present. It's their meeting that starts the whole causal loop plot hole in the anime.THEGOKU wrote:You aren't alone. While I think it is cool what he did I'm a bit let down about not seeing Goku Vs Black in this chapter if that happens to be the case.
Edit: Hence see post above.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread
I HIGHLY doubt it. Toriyama probably finished the outline for the next arc back in June or July.JulieYBM wrote: Plotting a story takes time, energy, enthusiasm and creativity. Those are not something one is going to be filled with all the time, especially when they've already clearly become less than enthused about a project like Toriyama has. It's entirely possible that Toriyama hasn't developed another storyline yet.
Paradoxes aren't plot holes, they're plot devices. The anime is using the paradox as a plot point, that's the whole point.TheDevilsCorpse wrote: Goku and Black need to stay away from each other in the present. It's their meeting that starts the whole causal loop plot hole in the anime.
Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread
I'm sure that we will be getting that kind of experience and every detail being fleshed out. I would only assume that since the picture shows the battle vs Hit on Godtube Zamasu could see Goku using the form with God Ki and since he has to travel to fight Zamasu when they go to investigate it could be there that Goku uses SSG which makes Zamasu want to achieve a similar form when he becomes black.TheMikado wrote:Pretty much this. Part of the problem is that is seems like Toei gave fans what they wanted, just a bunch of back to back fights. It looks like we will be taking some logical steps towards the explanation behind all this in the manga and I'm looking forward to a fair deeper interaction between Zamasu and Goku.TheDevilsCorpse wrote:Goku and Black need to stay away from each other in the present. It's their meeting that starts the whole causal loop plot hole in the anime.THEGOKU wrote:You aren't alone. While I think it is cool what he did I'm a bit let down about not seeing Goku Vs Black in this chapter if that happens to be the case.
Edit: Hence see post above.
Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread
Plot devices can create lots of holes in stories, Dragon Ball is a good example of that. Future Trunks' future cannot exist the way it does unless you make everyone a moron or an asshole in the afterlife as they have plenty of ways to come back from being killed by 17 and 18.ArchedThunder wrote:Paradoxes aren't plot holes, they're plot devices. The anime is using the paradox as a plot point, that's the whole point.
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.
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How the Black Arc Should End (by Lightbing!):
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread
The paradox is not a plot hole, it's the back bone of the plot. Time paradoxes are a common plot device in time travel stories, the existence of a paradox is not a plot hole.ekrolo2 wrote:
Plot devices can create lots of holes in stories, Dragon Ball is a good example of that. Future Trunks' future cannot exist the way it does unless you make everyone a moron or an asshole in the afterlife as they have plenty of ways to come back from being killed by 17 and 18.
Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread
What makes you "HIGHLY" doubt that?ArchedThunder wrote:I HIGHLY doubt it. Toriyama probably finished the outline for the next arc back in June or July.JulieYBM wrote: Plotting a story takes time, energy, enthusiasm and creativity. Those are not something one is going to be filled with all the time, especially when they've already clearly become less than enthused about a project like Toriyama has. It's entirely possible that Toriyama hasn't developed another storyline yet.Paradoxes aren't plot holes, they're plot devices. The anime is using the paradox as a plot point, that's the whole point.TheDevilsCorpse wrote: Goku and Black need to stay away from each other in the present. It's their meeting that starts the whole causal loop plot hole in the anime.
Also this isn't a paradox, it's a plot hole. There's a difference. Chicken or the egg is an example of a paradox. There is no missing information other than the answer to the paradox itself.
Let me also state the intention was to make a paradox but the attempt failed as it created an incomplete paradox and thus a plot hole.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread
Toriyama finished the Champa arc outline during the BoG arc and finished the Future Trunks arc outline at the beginning of the Champa arc. There's no way he hasn't written the next one yet, especially with the current arc coming to a close.TheMikado wrote:
What makes you "HIGHLY" doubt that?
Also this isn't a paradox, it's a plot hole. There's a difference. Chicken or the egg is an example of a paradox. There is no missing information other than the answer to the paradox itself.
And yes, it is a paradox in the anime. For Goku Black to exist he needs to drive Trunks to the past to get help to fight Black.
No, they explained it pretty well. Black is from the present timeline, but his history has been erased, but he was protected by the time ring.TheMikado wrote:
Let me also state the intention was to make a paradox but the attempt failed as it created an incomplete paradox and thus a plot hole.
And no, the lack of information in a story NOT a plot hole.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread
It's both a plot device and a plot hole in the anime, as the depicted events are of an illogical progression that should not happen based on information that was established both before the fact and after it.
Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread
That's not what's making me a bit mehy, it's just that the chapter seems like it's going to skip out on interesting emotional scenes like it did with F!Bulma's death. F!Trunks playing Gokart just seems... iffy.THEGOKU wrote:
You aren't alone. While I think it is cool what he did I'm a bit let down about not seeing Goku Vs Black in this chapter if that happens to be the case.
No, he really doesn't. All that needs to happen is Zamasu to fight Goku, there's nothing saying that Trunks needs to come to warn about Black for that to happen,ArchedThunder wrote: And yes, it is a paradox in the anime. For Goku Black to exist he needs to drive Trunks to the past to get help to fight Black.
Last edited by Kanassa on Tue Oct 18, 2016 4:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
When Super apparently shoves Goku down our throats:
Spoiler:
Kanassa wrote:- FoolsGil, Out of Context, 2017FoolsGil wrote:I hope Mark is dead. But chances are the dragonballs will bring his stupid ass back.
Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread
I will use the chicken/egg paradox.ArchedThunder wrote:Toriyama finished the Champa arc outline during the BoG arc and finished the Future Trunks arc outline at the beginning of the Champa arc. There's no way he hasn't written the next one yet, especially with the current arc coming to a close.TheMikado wrote:
What makes you "HIGHLY" doubt that?
Also this isn't a paradox, it's a plot hole. There's a difference. Chicken or the egg is an example of a paradox. There is no missing information other than the answer to the paradox itself.
And yes, it is a paradox in the anime. For Goku Black to exist he needs to drive Trunks to the past to get help to fight Black.No, they explained it pretty well. Black is from the present timeline, but his history has been erased, but he was protected by the time ring.TheMikado wrote:
Let me also state the intention was to make a paradox but the attempt failed as it created an incomplete paradox and thus a plot hole.
And no, the lack of information in a story NOT a plot hole.
I will modify it to state that Chickens cannot produce fertile viable eggs, thus every time a chicken produces an egg nothing comes from that action.
That means at some point in history a viable chicken egg would have to have been laid to produce said chicken. Where did that egg come from and what was special about it. That's the issue we have with Zamasu, the current paradox should always lead to the events which terminate present Zamasu. At some point in time events transpired differently but we aren't told what those events are. That's the hole.
Also you state this arc is coming to a close so he must have finished it by now. You're using one assumption to support another assumption, do you see the fallacy in that? I'm just stating we don't know anything on what he's done or doing.
Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread
I knew Toyotaro would ignore the whole casual loop thing that the anime did. It doesn't match up with the established DB time travel
Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread
I don't think, there's a timeloop in the anime.TheDevilsCorpse wrote:Goku and Black need to stay away from each other in the present. It's their meeting that starts the whole causal loop plot hole in the anime.THEGOKU wrote:You aren't alone. While I think it is cool what he did I'm a bit let down about not seeing Goku Vs Black in this chapter if that happens to be the case.
Black is Present Zamasu like they saud.
Present Zamasu could have first know Goku from Kibito like in the mangas, fight against him for another reason in Goku's timeline.
Then when Trunks arrived he altered Goku's timeline and Beerus killed Present Zamasu befire he could do anything.
And now Black only exist because of his time ring like Black said.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread
Now THAT must be one of the biggest coincidences for you! xDLord Beerus wrote:Cart racing!? Get the fuck outta here. That's awesome!![]()
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And something that I actually wanted.
Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread
Go kart Dragon Ball....oh that made my day. 

Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread
I know right. Toyatoro must be a huge fan of Mario Kart like I am.GodVegetto91 wrote:Now THAT must be one of the biggest coincidences for you! xDLord Beerus wrote:Cart racing!? Get the fuck outta here. That's awesome!![]()
![]()
And something that I actually wanted.

Spoiler:
Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread
I want it as a video game now haha. Although if the anime did it, a lot of people would be complaining.dbzfan7 wrote:Go kart Dragon Ball....oh that made my day.
Disclaimer: I might get into a disagreement with you. Sometimes I might even get feisty about it. I'll never harbor negative feelings because of it though. I hope you feel the same way!Jinzoningen MULE wrote: Maybe I should start making it a point not to comment when I'm not sure of something. Too many people know what they're talking about around here.
I made a bet with Alee9977 that Vegeta won't be beaten quickly by an opponent. If I lose, I switch my avatar to Vegeta getting beat by hit. If I win, he switches it to Vegeta holding Black by his hair. This will last a month.
Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread
Speaking as a man who complains a lot, it means something when I say people need to quit their bitching sometimes.kinisking wrote:I want it as a video game now haha. Although if the anime did it, a lot of people would be complaining.dbzfan7 wrote:Go kart Dragon Ball....oh that made my day.
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.
How the Black Arc Should End (by Lightbing!):
How the Black Arc Should End (by Lightbing!):
Spoiler:
Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread
People praise the driving episode as one of the best fillers. I don't know where this whole "if it was the anime people would hate it" talk is coming from, because it's completely false.ekrolo2 wrote:Speaking as a man who complains a lot, it means something when I say people need to quit their bitching sometimes.kinisking wrote:I want it as a video game now haha. Although if the anime did it, a lot of people would be complaining.dbzfan7 wrote:Go kart Dragon Ball....oh that made my day.
Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread
What is this paradox you are talking about, I don´t get it. We have future Trunks and Black travelling back to the present starting the Beerus/Whis investigation on Zamasu. We know this event leads to Zamasu getting killed by Beerus. What are the events that lead to the creation of Black? It can´t be the same that we saw obviously, unless Zamasu already secretly wished to duplicate himself and has yet to kill Gowasu later.ArchedThunder wrote: The paradox is not a plot hole, it's the back bone of the plot. Time paradoxes are a common plot device in time travel stories, the existence of a paradox is not a plot hole.