Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

[Bullza]

You can't trust Piccolo at the time, that line contradicts a previous one from him.

Yeah but the one I mentioned about their being 100 of them was something that he Roshi agreed with because he said Goku was the only one who could even track him.

At the very end he blew Tien, Yamcha and Krillin back with no effort and he was really battered by then. This was long after Goku said his punch wasn't half what it was before too.

They apparently stood that little chance against Piccolo that Tien killing Kami was their only hope. The world was over with if Goku had lost.

But aside from that yes there was Mercenary Tao saying he got multiple times stronger as a cyborg. King Piccolo said his power had multiple many times when he became young or was about to. Goku said his power had increased multiple times over after drinking the water etc.

Then there's Goku at the start if the series having a power level of 10. Yamcha's would have been at best a 9. The fat farmer was a 5 so Yamcha's power level isn't even twice his but he's able to smack Goku through several stone columns.

[LightBing]

You can't trust Piccolo at the time, that line contradicts a previous one from him.

Yeah but the one I mentioned about their being 100 of them was something that he Roshi agreed with because he said Goku was the only one who could even track him.

At the very end he blew Tien, Yamcha and Krillin back with no effort and he was really battered by then. This was long after Goku said his punch wasn't half what it was before too.

They apparently stood that little chance against Piccolo that Tien killing Kami was their only hope. The world was over with if Goku had lost.

But aside from that yes there was Mercenary Tao saying he got multiple times stronger as a cyborg. King Piccolo said his power had multiple many times when he became young or was about to. Goku said his power had increased multiple times over after drinking the water etc.

Then there's Goku at the start if the series having a power level of 10. Yamcha's would have been at best a 9. The fat farmer was a 5 so Yamcha's power level isn't even twice his but he's able to smack Goku through several stone columns.

There's also Kami stopping a full-powered punch from Piccolo, which shouldn't be possible if he's that much weaker. Note that this is a bit before Goku makes the "half strength punch" comment.
Even the display of power you mentioned, Piccolo just makes a hole on the floor to warn them. At that point, both him and Goku are huffing and puffing with their eyes semi-closed, covered in wounds.
If Piccolo was at full strength, yup they could gang up on him and lose. Him weakened, it's doesn't make sense within Dragon Ball's own logic. Look at Vegeta during the Saiyan arc, he had arguably received less damage than Piccolo, yet he was weakened enough that Gohan could trade blows with him for some time and even put a hit in; this before he took the Genki Dama.
If I remember correctly, there was also some hope of defeating Cell by ganging up on him with a fully restored Goku. Before Goku gave him a senzu bean...
While all these situations are different, they still give us a range to think about them.

Yeah, I see this moment as Mr.Toriyama writing himself into a corner. So he decided to make Piccolo say something outrageous and have a trustworthy character support his statement.

[DBZ Macky]

Couldn't it be that Goku's battle power was actually 910 in the 23rd Budokai?
Surely that fixes Piccolo's "Leveling up several times".

OR, It could be like this:
Old Daimao= 200 //This is the power he used against Goku in their first match
Old Daimao (Bakurikimaha)= 400 //This is his "Full-Power" that he was talking about
Young Daimao= 220 //This is his initial power against Goku in their rematch
Young Daimao (Full Power)= 260 //This is his "This will shorten my lifespan" Full power
Young Daimao (Bakurikimaha)= 440
Piccolo Jr.= 400
Piccolo Jr. (Chou Bakuretsumaha)= 880 //This is his "several times increased" Full power

From the above example, everything seems to fit in place. The only problem is "Several times" being just 2x.
It also explains why Kamesennin wasn't to keen on interfering. Just one charged Ki blast from Piccolo and the Z-Senshi except Goku would be history.

[DBZ Macky]

So with inspiration from everyone who was kind enough to share their lists and with everything done, I'd like to introduce my completed Battle Power list for the Pre-Z era.
Also inspired by Herm's attempt at power scaling viewtopic.php?f=8&t=32368, I've also managed to add in the weaker characters from the Z era.

Here 21B,22B and 23B mean that the character is from the 21st,22nd and 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai tournaments respectively while PIC is the Piccolo Daimao Arc, FTB is the Uranai Baba Arc, RRA is the Red Ribbon Arc and BoS indicates the beginning of the series.

Spoiler:

23B Goku= 400
23B Piccolo= 390
PIC Kami= 330
23B Goku (Weighted)= 320
PIC Mr. Popo= 280
RRA Arale= 270
PIC Goku (Super God Water)= 260
PIC Piccolo (Young)= 260
23B Tenshinhan= 240
PIC Piccolo (Old)= 220
23B Cyborg Tao= 210
23B Kuririn= 200
PIC Drum= 200
PIC Mutaito= 200
PIC Goku= 195
RRA Karin= 190
22B Goku= 180
22B Tenshinhan= 180
21B Roshi (MAX Kamehameha)= 180
21B Goku (Oozaru, Injured)= 180
23B Yamcha= 177
23B Chaozu= 150
22B Roshi= 139
PIC Tambourine= 135
PIC Yajirobe= 135
23B Chichi= 130
23B Chapao= 125
22B Goku (Match Level)= 125
FTB Goku= 125
FTB Gohan= 120
22B Tsuru Sennin= 120
RRA Tao= 110
22B Kuririn= 104
22B Yamcha= 102
22B Chapao= 100
BoS Goku (Oozaru)= 100
FTB Akkuman= 99.9
RRA Black (Battle Jacket)= 90
22B Chaozu= 84
PIC Cymbal= 82
RRA Hacchan= 80
FTB Combined Pilaf Machine= 70
FTB Mummy-Kun= 66
21B Goku= 51
21B Roshi= 50
BoS Roshi= 49
RRA Blue= 48
RRA Sgt. Metallic= 47
FTB Pilaf Machine= 47
RRA Pirate Robot= 46
21B Namu= 46
21B Goku (W/o Tail)= 45
21B Kuririn= 36
BoS Gyumao= 35
22B Panpoot= 25
RRA Bora= 24
PIC King Castle Guard= 23
RRA Buyon= 22
21B Giran= 20
21B Yamcha= 14
21B Bacterian= 11
BoS Goku= 10
BoS Goku (W/o Tail)= 9.4
DBZ Majin Yamu= 9
BoS Yamcha= 9
22B Man Wolf= 8.8
21B Orin Temple Seniors= 8.8
BoS Orin Temple Seniors= 8.6
DBZ Majin Spopovich= 8
BoS Kuririn= 8
DBZ Videl (Post Training)= 7.77
BoS Bear Bandit= 7.4
DBZ Videl= 7
BoS Pteranodon= 6.8
RRA Murasaki= 6.8
DBZ Mr. Satan= 6.66
RRA Silver= 6.5
DBZ Jewel= 6.4
21B Ranfan= 6.4
DBZ Pintar= 6.2
FTB Invisible Man= 6.2
DBZ Killa= 6
21B Bruce Lee Lookalike= 5.8
DBZ Spopovich= 5.8
FTB Dracula Man= 5.8
DBZ Mighty Mask= 5.8
RRA Black= 5.8
RRA Yellow= 5.6
RRA White= 5.6
BoS Launch (Evil)= 5.4
RRA Violet= 5.4
BoS Chichi= 5.4
DBZ Dende (Pre Unlock)= 5.2
PIC Piano= 5.2
BoS Police= 5.2
BoS Rabbit Gang Thugs= 5
DBZ Farmer With Shotgun= 5
BoS Mai= 4.4
BoS Shu= 4.4
BoS Launch (Good)= 4.2
BoS Bulma= 4
RRA Upa= 3.8
BoS Pilaf= 3.6
BoS Oolong= 3.6
DBZ Gohan= 3.6
BoS Puar= 3
DBZ Gohan (Post Attack)= 1
BoS Sea Turtle= 0.001

Please share your thoughts on this and tell me where you'd disagree. Even small nitpicks will be greatly appreciated

[apex_pretador]

Tien said that Goku had improved since he fought King Piccolo though his speed has stayed the same. Tien was knocking him around once he got serious and before Goku removed his weights.

23rd Goku > 23rd Tien > 23rd Goku (with weights) > Kid Goku = King Piccolo

Yet those power levels suggest King Piccolo > DBZ Tien

This is true.

You should also add in the fact that Kami thought Yamcha was impressive, while (tired, but after a possible Zenkai) post daimao goku was not impressive in the slightest for him. And piccolo thought it would be hard to take over the world after Krillin gave him trouble.

I do not think that Young daimao's power is significant any more when the tournament reaches semifinals.

I was wondering about Frieza. Where do you guys put

• 2nd form Frieza (Namek)
• Mecha-Frieza
• 1st form Frieza (RoF)
• 4th form Frieza (RoF)
• Golden Frieza

Personally I put 2nd form Frieza as 1,060,000, a simple x2. As for RoF, I kicked his 1st and 4th forms up by a factor of 10,000 because of that one place (I don't quite remember exactly what it was from, but we have discussed it on Kanzenshuu before) where he said "My power level is 5,300,000,000" (gojuusanoku instead of gojuusanman). But what do you think?

2nd form freeza at 1.2 million

Mecha freeza around 50 million (no, i do not consider mecha freeza being stronger than FP freeza at all, due to Gohan's comment, due to his battle against trunks and performance of 100% freeza against SS goku)

RoF 1st form freeza around 10 billion

4th form freeza is too high to be here

Golden freeza = incalculable.

[apex_pretador]

Tien said that Goku had improved since he fought King Piccolo though his speed has stayed the same. Tien was knocking him around once he got serious and before Goku removed his weights.

23rd Goku > 23rd Tien > 23rd Goku (with weights) > Kid Goku = King Piccolo

Yet those power levels suggest King Piccolo > DBZ Tien

This is true.

You should also add in the fact that Kami thought Yamcha was impressive, while (tired, but after a possible Zenkai) post daimao goku was not impressive in the slightest for him. And piccolo thought it would be hard to take over the world after Krillin gave him trouble.

I do not think that Young daimao's power is significant any more when the tournament reaches semifinals.

I was wondering about Frieza. Where do you guys put

• 2nd form Frieza (Namek)
• Mecha-Frieza
• 1st form Frieza (RoF)
• 4th form Frieza (RoF)
• Golden Frieza

Personally I put 2nd form Frieza as 1,060,000, a simple x2. As for RoF, I kicked his 1st and 4th forms up by a factor of 10,000 because of that one place (I don't quite remember exactly what it was from, but we have discussed it on Kanzenshuu before) where he said "My power level is 5,300,000,000" (gojuusanoku instead of gojuusanman). But what do you think?

2nd form freeza at 1.2 million

Mecha freeza around 50 million (no, i do not consider mecha freeza being stronger than FP freeza at all, due to Gohan's comment, due to his battle against trunks and performance of 100% freeza against SS goku)

RoF 1st form freeza around 10 billion

4th form freeza is too high to be here

Golden freeza = incalculable.

I would appreciate if you guys could share your Dragon Ball (Pre Z) and Raditz Arc power levels.
Also, is it possible that Piccolo Daimao was referring to his Bakurikimaha when he said that the power he was displaying against Goku was not even half of his full power?

How about this?
Oh, and if you want to access this list anytime again, just click in my signature.

My improved power level list , in parts

Part 1 : Dragon ball

DB hunt
[spoiler]kid goku - 15
Bear bandit - 10
Oolong - 4
Yamcha - 14
Hungry goku - 13
Goku (after yamcha battle) - 16
ChiChi - 11
Gyumao - ???
Ozaru goku - 160[/spoiler]

21st TB
[spoiler]Goku - 16
Krillin - 12
Lunch (base) - 2 , SS - 10
____post training____
Krillin's bully - 22
Bacterian - 24
Yamcha - 35
Giran - 27
Nam - 44
Krillin - 44
Goku (no tail) - 48
Goku - 53, weakened - 30, ozaru - 300
Jacky chun - 54[/spoiler]

RRA encounter:
[spoiler]Goku - 56
Ninja - 30
Buyon - 50
Large Robot soldier - 53
#8 - 60
Goku (post rest) - 62
Krillin - 44
General blue - 55
Master roshi - 65 , FP 75
Tao - 75, FP 80
Bora - 58
Goku post karin - 85[/spoiler]

Fight with unknowns:
[spoiler]Krillin - 45
Yamcha - 38
Dracula - 35
Invisible man - 30
Bandage man - 50
Goku - 85
Akkuman - 66
Gohan - 75 (he was able to dominate goku because he knew him every bit, not power advantage, plus dead body advantage)[/spoiler]

22nd TB
[spoiler]Yamcha - 88
Krillin - 100
Chiatzu - 75
Jacky chun - 115 (FP)
Man wolf - 40, man - 8
King chappa - 45
Nam - 44
Goku - 115 (match power) , 120 (Full power)
Tenshinhan - 120
Crane hermit - 99[/spoiler]

King piccolo arc:
[spoiler]Goku , tired - 100, post rest - 125
Tamburine - 116
Yajirobe - 125
King piccolo (old) - 165
Tenshinhan - 120
King piccolo (young) - 190
Goku (post karin) - 198
Drum - 140
Goku (post battle, healed) - 208
Popo - 225
Kami - 270[/spoiler]

23rd TB
[spoiler]Shen (kami) - 255
Kami - 270
Cyborg tao - 148
Yamcha - 163
Krillin - 180
Tenshinhan - 225
Chiatzu - 112
Goku (weighted) - 220
Goku - 320 , Super KHH - over 700
Piccolo - 220 (suppressed) , 311 (true power) , 380 (giant)[/spoiler]

[Bullza]

Where would you guys place Dr Wheelo?

I know the Movie 3 pamphlet has him at 39,000 but the numbers listed on that are terrible.

Saiyan Saga Vegeta was at 18,000, somehow he was able to produce a blast equal to Goku's Kamehameha at Kaioken x3 (does that mean the Galick Gun is more powerful than the Kamehameha?).

Just assuming that Goku was as strong in Movie 2. Dr Wheelo was easily able to overpower Goku's Kamehameha at Kaioken x3 but was blown away when he used Kaioken x4. However he wasn't using his best attack there.

So would be above Goku using Kaioken x4 or below?

[apex_pretador]

Where would you guys place Dr Wheelo?

I know the Movie 3 pamphlet has him at 39,000 but the numbers listed on that are terrible.

Saiyan Saga Vegeta was at 18,000, somehow he was able to produce a blast equal to Goku's Kamehameha at Kaioken x3 (does that mean the Galick Gun is more powerful than the Kamehameha?).

Just assuming that Goku was as strong in Movie 2. Dr Wheelo was easily able to overpower Goku's Kamehameha at Kaioken x3 but was blown away when he used Kaioken x4. However he wasn't using his best attack there.

So would be above Goku using Kaioken x4 or below?

Contrary to popular opinion, I put dr wheelo at below nappa level power wise.

[Bullza]

How would that work?

[apex_pretador]

How would that work?

Are you asking story-wise or power level wise?

[Bullza]

Power level wise. I don't see anything that could suggest Dr Wheelo is weaker than Nappa.

[apex_pretador]

Power level wise. I don't see anything that could suggest Dr Wheelo is weaker than Nappa.

1. Gohan was implied to be weaker than those saibaman clones 4 of which were took down by Master roshi alone. No matter how scared , saiyan saga gohan would stomp roshi easily.

2. Roshi put up a fight against 3 bio warriors of dr wheelo. The same warriors could give goku hell.

3. Enraged gohan was stronger than Piccolo or goku and was implied to be stronger than KaioKen x2 or x3 (can't remember) goku.

4. Base goku and Piccolo were exactly even.

These points suggest that the power levels were almost BoZ level. While Goku knew kaioken and had trained with king kai, it is clear that his base power has been only slightly affected, if at all. Similarly, Piccolo has trained Gohan briefly, but not completely, because Gohan still needs rage to bring out his power.

[DanielSSJ]

Mecha freeza around 50 million (no, i do not consider mecha freeza being stronger than FP freeza at all, due to Gohan's comment, due to his battle against trunks and performance of 100% freeza against SS goku)

I do not buy this at all, considering Freeza straight-up says that he's stronger than before in the manga. Maybe Freeza never got the opportunity to power up to full, but there's no way he's weaker than before.

Where would you guys place Dr Wheelo?
I know the Movie 3 pamphlet has him at 39,000 but the numbers listed on that are terrible.

Saiyan Saga Vegeta was at 18,000, somehow he was able to produce a blast equal to Goku's Kamehameha at Kaioken x3 (does that mean the Galick Gun is more powerful than the Kamehameha?).

Just assuming that Goku was as strong in Movie 2. Dr Wheelo was easily able to overpower Goku's Kamehameha at Kaioken x3 but was blown away when he used Kaioken x4. However he wasn't using his best attack there.

So would be above Goku using Kaioken x4 or below?

I stick with the 39,000 number for the most part. The majority of those movie pamphlet power levels are bullshit, but I figure that if they were gonna put any effort into any of them, it would be the one's actually relevant to the movie we're watching, and the 39,000 number makes sense in the context of the story. He starts of at a level that can repel Goku's KKx3 blast, but is eventually overpowered by a KKx4. Afterwards, when he goes into low orbit to prepare his next attack, his Ki is stated to be rising.
Power-level wise, you got something like this:
Dr. Urio: 20,000
-- Beam Attack: 25,000
-- "Ki is rising": 39,000

1. Gohan was implied to be weaker than those saibaman clones 4 of which were took down by Master roshi alone. No matter how scared , saiyan saga gohan would stomp roshi easily.

2. Roshi put up a fight against 3 bio warriors of dr wheelo. The same warriors could give goku hell.

3. Enraged gohan was stronger than Piccolo or goku and was implied to be stronger than KaioKen x2 or x3 (can't remember) goku.

4. Base goku and Piccolo were exactly even.

These points suggest that the power levels were almost BoZ level. While Goku knew kaioken and had trained with king kai, it is clear that his base power has been only slightly affected, if at all. Similarly, Piccolo has trained Gohan briefly, but not completely, because Gohan still needs rage to bring out his power.

That seems like an unnecessary complicated explanation for a few power discrepancies. I find it's easier to say "Toei doesn't know/care jack about power scaling" and call it a day.

[apex_pretador]

Mecha freeza around 50 million (no, i do not consider mecha freeza being stronger than FP freeza at all, due to Gohan's comment, due to his battle against trunks and performance of 100% freeza against SS goku)

I do not buy this at all, considering Freeza straight-up says that he's stronger than before in the manga. Maybe Freeza never got the opportunity to power up to full, but there's no way he's weaker than before.

Freeza would never hold back his power against a Super Saiyan. He does say he powered up, but at the exact same time, he was said to be far beneath his real power by GOhan.

When he fired blast against SS Trunks, he seemed fully convinced that it "killed" trunks, despite knowing how powerful Super Saiyans are. It means one of the two things:
1. He powered up if he wasn't at full power, and not powered up if he was already at full power. Then he blasted his best shot to kill a super saiyan. If this is true, it means that either Trunks is infinitely far above Namek Goku in power, or Freeza's power is not actually anywhere near 100% from namek, where he was also damaged.
2. He thought he had powered up so much that a casual highly suppressed ki blast easily can vaporize a Super Saiyan. If this is true, it means either trunks is infinitely far above Namek goku and so is full power mecha freeza, or what mecha freeza thinks is ridiculous.

Now, we do know that Trunks is not infinitely far beyond Namek goku. How? Gohan. He mistakes Trunks for goku, and the last time he sensed goku was on namek. He even says that he has THE SAME KI as goku had on namek. Which means that trunks = damaged goku on namek.
Before you say "he said same ki, not same size of ki" , he said same ki , not similar ki which means same. And Toriyama would have never inserted such a direct quote without it being a reference to power of trunks.
And if you still disregard it, remember that Gohan does not note that goku (trunks) has gotten noticeably stronger since namek, let alone much, much stronger.
It is further strengthened by the fact that when Goku returns, he says he had extremely limited time on Yadrat, due to the fact that he used the time to master IT. He is also not noted to have become significantly stronger. This goku turns out to be superior to Future trunks. He actualy "far exceeds" what trunks thought.He even blocked trunks's sword strike with one finger.

That seems like an unnecessary complicated explanation for a few power discrepancies. I find it's easier to say "Toei doesn't know/care jack about power scaling" and call it a day.

Before you call it a day, you must also remember how "Piccolo saves Gohan" appears like a precog vision to Gohan,since this hasn't happened already.
Or you could just say Toie doesn't give a shit about the movie supposed to be post king kai training and call it a day.

[DanielSSJ]

Freeza would never hold back his power against a Super Saiyan. He does say he powered up, but at the exact same time, he was said to be far beneath his real power by Gohan.

I am 99.8% certain that Gohan's line was not intended to mean that Freeza had gotten weaker in the last year or so. More that it was intended to show that the level of power that was currently giving Yamcha a panic attack was just a taste of what was to come and how screwed the heroes really were at the time.

When he fired blast against SS Trunks, he seemed fully convinced that it "killed" trunks, despite knowing how powerful Super Saiyans are. It means one of the two things:
1. He powered up if he wasn't at full power, and not powered up if he was already at full power. Then he blasted his best shot to kill a super saiyan. If this is true, it means that either Trunks is infinitely far above Namek Goku in power, or Freeza's power is not actually anywhere near 100% from namek, where he was also damaged.
2. He thought he had powered up so much that a casual highly suppressed ki blast easily can vaporize a Super Saiyan. If this is true, it means either trunks is infinitely far above Namek goku and so is full power mecha freeza, or what mecha freeza thinks is ridiculous.

I prefer option 3. Freeza was so shocked by Trunks' transformation that, in irrational fear, he lashed out without thinking. Seeing that Trunks had disappeared, Freeza mistakenly assumed that Trunks must not have been that powerful to begin with. It's only in the anime, but I believe Freeza says something akin to "It was a good warm-up before the real Super Saiyan arrived."

Now, we do know that Trunks is not infinitely far beyond Namek Goku. How? Gohan. He mistakes Trunks for Goku, and the last time he sensed Goku was on Namek. He even says that he has THE SAME KI as Goku had on Namek. Which means that trunks = damaged Goku on Namek.
Before you say "he said same ki, not same size of ki" , he said same ki , not similar ki which means same. And Toriyama would have never inserted such a direct quote without it being a reference to power of trunks.
And if you still disregard it, remember that Gohan does not note that goku (trunks) has gotten noticeably stronger since namek, let alone much, much stronger.
It is further strengthened by the fact that when Goku returns, he says he had extremely limited time on Yardrat, due to the fact that he used the time to master IT. He is also not noted to have become significantly stronger. This goku turns out to be superior to Future trunks. He actually "far exceeds" what trunks thought.He even blocked trunks's sword strike with one finger.

I suppose you could interpret the "same Ki" thing in different ways. In the Strength Checker Guide, Herms himself makes special note that Gohan didn't say "same sized ki" so it is worth considering. It's not conclusive evidence as far as I'm concerned and you can take it in different ways. I take it as Gohan referring to how the Ki feels, which would make sense since Super Saiyan is still a new thing, and there might be a recognizable difference in the quality of it, just like how when Goku was searching for New Namek, he said he'd look for Ki that were similar to Piccolo's. Of course, you can interpret that it meant that Trunks' ki WAS the same size as Goku's, but keep in mind that neither Goku nor Trunks had revealed their full strength at the time, so the others might not have gotten a completely accurate measurement of their strength.

More than that, I doubt Toriyama would've kept the "Freeza has gotten stronger line" in if it weren't true unless if he wrote a scene where he was totally proven wrong. It makes sense that Trunks beating Freeza so thoroughly was to show that these new threats on the horizon were unlike anything we've ever scene. Trunks beating Freeza was still used as a measuring even when Cell showed up, and it wouldn't make sense for that battle to be used like that if what Trunks beat was a weaker version of Freeza.

[ZombieVito]

So with inspiration from everyone who was kind enough to share their lists and with everything done, I'd like to introduce my completed Battle Power list for the Pre-Z era.
Also inspired by Herm's attempt at power scaling viewtopic.php?f=8&t=32368, I've also managed to add in the weaker characters from the Z era.

Here 21B,22B and 23B mean that the character is from the 21st,22nd and 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai tournaments respectively while PIC is the Piccolo Daimao Arc, FTB is the Uranai Baba Arc, RRA is the Red Ribbon Arc and BoS indicates the beginning of the series.

Spoiler:

23B Goku= 400
23B Piccolo= 390
PIC Kami= 330
23B Goku (Weighted)= 320
PIC Mr. Popo= 280
RRA Arale= 270
PIC Goku (Super God Water)= 260
PIC Piccolo (Young)= 260
23B Tenshinhan= 240
PIC Piccolo (Old)= 220
23B Cyborg Tao= 210
23B Kuririn= 200
PIC Drum= 200
PIC Mutaito= 200
PIC Goku= 195
RRA Karin= 190
22B Goku= 180
22B Tenshinhan= 180
21B Roshi (MAX Kamehameha)= 180
21B Goku (Oozaru, Injured)= 180
23B Yamcha= 177
23B Chaozu= 150
22B Roshi= 139
PIC Tambourine= 135
PIC Yajirobe= 135
23B Chichi= 130
23B Chapao= 125
22B Goku (Match Level)= 125
FTB Goku= 125
FTB Gohan= 120
22B Tsuru Sennin= 120
RRA Tao= 110
22B Kuririn= 104
22B Yamcha= 102
22B Chapao= 100
BoS Goku (Oozaru)= 100
FTB Akkuman= 99.9
RRA Black (Battle Jacket)= 90
22B Chaozu= 84
PIC Cymbal= 82
RRA Hacchan= 80
FTB Combined Pilaf Machine= 70
FTB Mummy-Kun= 66
21B Goku= 51
21B Roshi= 50
BoS Roshi= 49
RRA Blue= 48
RRA Sgt. Metallic= 47
FTB Pilaf Machine= 47
RRA Pirate Robot= 46
21B Namu= 46
21B Goku (W/o Tail)= 45
21B Kuririn= 36
BoS Gyumao= 35
22B Panpoot= 25
RRA Bora= 24
PIC King Castle Guard= 23
RRA Buyon= 22
21B Giran= 20
21B Yamcha= 14
21B Bacterian= 11
BoS Goku= 10
BoS Goku (W/o Tail)= 9.4
DBZ Majin Yamu= 9
BoS Yamcha= 9
22B Man Wolf= 8.8
21B Orin Temple Seniors= 8.8
BoS Orin Temple Seniors= 8.6
DBZ Majin Spopovich= 8
BoS Kuririn= 8
DBZ Videl (Post Training)= 7.77
BoS Bear Bandit= 7.4
DBZ Videl= 7
BoS Pteranodon= 6.8
RRA Murasaki= 6.8
DBZ Mr. Satan= 6.66
RRA Silver= 6.5
DBZ Jewel= 6.4
21B Ranfan= 6.4
DBZ Pintar= 6.2
FTB Invisible Man= 6.2
DBZ Killa= 6
21B Bruce Lee Lookalike= 5.8
DBZ Spopovich= 5.8
FTB Dracula Man= 5.8
DBZ Mighty Mask= 5.8
RRA Black= 5.8
RRA Yellow= 5.6
RRA White= 5.6
BoS Launch (Evil)= 5.4
RRA Violet= 5.4
BoS Chichi= 5.4
DBZ Dende (Pre Unlock)= 5.2
PIC Piano= 5.2
BoS Police= 5.2
BoS Rabbit Gang Thugs= 5
DBZ Farmer With Shotgun= 5
BoS Mai= 4.4
BoS Shu= 4.4
BoS Launch (Good)= 4.2
BoS Bulma= 4
RRA Upa= 3.8
BoS Pilaf= 3.6
BoS Oolong= 3.6
DBZ Gohan= 3.6
BoS Puar= 3
DBZ Gohan (Post Attack)= 1
BoS Sea Turtle= 0.001

Please share your thoughts on this and tell me where you'd disagree. Even small nitpicks will be greatly appreciated

A few things:

- I would bump Drum to 210. 200 seems to close to Tenshinhan.
- Yajirobe seems too weak. He did great against Goku.
- Cymbal was stated to be many times weaker than Tambourine.
- Chappa is way to high.
- Majin Spopovitch that weak?
- Has it ever been confirmed that Launch gets stronger when she changes personalities?

I actually was thinking about giving Mutaito that power level and young Roshi 180 (Old Roshi gets his power back by going buff). I still don't know where to put young Tsuru. Did he ever climbed Korin's tower?

[DanielSSJ]

A few things:

- I would bump Drum to 210. 200 seems to close to Tenshinhan.
- Yajirobe seems too weak. He did great against Goku.
- Cymbal was stated to be many times weaker than Tambourine.
- Chappa is way to high.
- Majin Spopovitch that weak?
- Has it ever been confirmed that Launch gets stronger when she changes personalities?

I actually was thinking about giving Mutaito that power level and young Roshi 180 (Old Roshi gets his power back by going buff). I still don't know where to put young Tsuru. Did he ever climbed Korin's tower?

I think a lot of this stems from the fact that Herms wasn't just measuring straight battle powers. For example, Bad Lunch was higher on the list because she was more combat-ready than her sweet-natured self, not because she was physically stronger.

[DBZ Macky]

- I would bump Drum to 210. 200 seems to close to Tenshinhan.
- Yajirobe seems too weak. He did great against Goku.
- Cymbal was stated to be many times weaker than Tambourine.
- Chappa is way to high.
- Majin Spopovitch that weak?
- Has it ever been confirmed that Launch gets stronger when she changes personalities?

I actually was thinking about giving Mutaito that power level and young Roshi 180 (Old Roshi gets his power back by going buff). I still don't know where to put young Tsuru. Did he ever climbed Korin's tower?

- Agreed. Do you think he could be as strong or stronger than Old Daimao though?
- I can see where you're coming from, but it always seemed to me that Yajirobe was weaker than Tenshinhan. Also, battle power wise, I doubt he's much stronger than Chichi. Goku praised his toughness which could just be referring to his resilience. What number would you give him, in accordance with my list?
- I am currently going by my assumption that whenever a character is many times stronger than another, it could very well just refer to their maximum output. In this case, it would be Tambourine's mouth blast or whatever that would be many times stronger than Cymbal. But I guess I can lower Cymbal a bit anyways. Where would you put him, in accordance with my list?
- I've seen people putting him way above even the likes of Son Gohan. What reason would you have to put him lower?
- I see no reason why he should be any stronger. From the feats he has displayed, he is an absolute chump compared to BoS Goku. Why would you put him higher?
- Not really, but IIRC, at least in filler, she is able to fight some of the RRA's soldiers bare handed. You could consider it a "Rage Boost", "Shouki+" or "Yuuki+".

We see that Mutaito's students are able to somewhat compete against the demon spawn but Daimao was the real problem, so I'm content with at least Mutaito's level, given that he was stronger than Goku in filler, if not just because of his superior skills and experience. young Roshi at 180 seems... alright, but I'd like to think that Roshi exceeded his previous prime when he trained for the 22nd Budokai and also because of the next point:
Tsuru sennin may or may not have climbed Karin's tower but he was still a rival to Roshi, which would indicate that he was at least in the same ballpark as him or possibly stronger. I also don't think he grew rusty like Roshi (Although neither did he train).

So my Powar Levuls for Mutaito & his students:
Mutaito= 200
Tsuru sennin= 120
Roshi= 120

Bad Lunch was higher on the list because she was more combat-ready than her sweet-natured self, not because she was physically stronger.

I don't think that it had anything to do with being "Battle ready" or else Assistant Black would've been stronger than Tao, judging by his confidence to take on an opponent that decimated the world's Universe 7's #1 Assasin.

[ZombieVito]

- I would bump Drum to 210. 200 seems to close to Tenshinhan.
- Yajirobe seems too weak. He did great against Goku.
- Cymbal was stated to be many times weaker than Tambourine.
- Chappa is way to high.
- Majin Spopovitch that weak?
- Has it ever been confirmed that Launch gets stronger when she changes personalities?

I actually was thinking about giving Mutaito that power level and young Roshi 180 (Old Roshi gets his power back by going buff). I still don't know where to put young Tsuru. Did he ever climbed Korin's tower?

- Agreed. Do you think he could be as strong or stronger than Old Daimao though?
- I can see where you're coming from, but it always seemed to me that Yajirobe was weaker than Tenshinhan. Also, battle power wise, I doubt he's much stronger than Chichi. Goku praised his toughness which could just be referring to his resilience. What number would you give him, in accordance with my list?
- I am currently going by my assumption that whenever a character is many times stronger than another, it could very well just refer to their maximum output. In this case, it would be Tambourine's mouth blast or whatever that would be many times stronger than Cymbal. But I guess I can lower Cymbal a bit anyways. Where would you put him, in accordance with my list?
- I've seen people putting him way above even the likes of Son Gohan. What reason would you have to put him lower?
- I see no reason why he should be any stronger. From the feats he has displayed, he is an absolute chump compared to BoS Goku. Why would you put him higher?
- Not really, but IIRC, at least in filler, she is able to fight some of the RRA's soldiers bare handed. You could consider it a "Rage Boost", "Shouki+" or "Yuuki+".

We see that Mutaito's students are able to somewhat compete against the demon spawn but Daimao was the real problem, so I'm content with at least Mutaito's level, given that he was stronger than Goku in filler, if not just because of his superior skills and experience. young Roshi at 180 seems... alright, but I'd like to think that Roshi exceeded his previous prime when he trained for the 22nd Budokai and also because of the next point:
Tsuru sennin may or may not have climbed Karin's tower but he was still a rival to Roshi, which would indicate that he was at least in the same ballpark as him or possibly stronger. I also don't think he grew rusty like Roshi (Although neither did he train).

So my Powar Levuls for Mutaito & his students:
Mutaito= 200
Tsuru sennin= 120
Roshi= 120

- I suppose it really doesn't matter if he is equal or a bit stronger than Old Daimao. 225 is my limit for him since Goku did kill him with one kick to the face.
- He isn't stronger than Tenshinhan but at leasy he should be stronger than Roshi IMO. I have him at 160.
- Very low lol. 35.
- Well I don't think Goku used his full power until his fight with Tenshinhan and you have Chappa equal to Goku's match level.
- I just can't see a person with a power level of 8 doing all those Ki feats he did. If I could I would put him higher than 500 but I doubt he can suppress himself that much.
- I like Daniel's explanation. Her power never changes but because of her personality she appears to be weak when Blue.

Didn't Roshi implied when he tells the gang about Daimao that his younger self was stronger?

I also have a question that might feel silly put I want to know: What power level would you guys give Grand Elder Guru? I know he doesn't fight but I wish to include him on my list.

[DanielSSJ]

I also have a question that might feel silly put I want to know: What power level would you guys give Grand Elder Guru? I know he doesn't fight but I wish to include him on my list.

I dunno, probably quite a bit stronger than those Namekian villagers that got killed by Dodoria and Zarbon. I'd probably stick him around 10,000 or so.