Discussion, generally of an in-universe nature, regarding any aspect of the franchise (including movies, spin-offs, etc.) such as: techniques, character relationships, internal back-history, its universe, and more.
SSJ Goten/SSJ Trunks (Post Rosat) vs FPSSJ Goku (Cell games)
I mean one on one
SSJ Goten/SSJ Trunks (Post Rosat) vs Cell Junior
I mean one on one
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
SSJ Goten/SSJ Trunks (Post Rosat) vs FPSSJ Goku (Cell games)
I mean one on one
SSJ Goten/SSJ Trunks (Post Rosat) vs Cell Junior
I mean one on one
The kids crush Goku's skull like a grape.
The kids one shot their Juniors.
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote:
Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.
I think 100% Freeza would take out Ssj Vegeta ( Namek ) quite easily. I think Freeza is a distant rival of Ssj Goku and I think Goku is clearly superior to Vegeta.
There should be a TINY, basically non-existent ~5% advantage in Freeza's favor (115 vs 120), so everything comes down to skill. I'd say Vegeta has the edge there, so he wins. On the other hand, both of them have shit stamina, and Freeza has a wider and deadlier range of techniques, as well as the "blow up the planet" card that he can use to force a time limit on Vegeta. He's also not really that unskilled, and is quite tanky. But then, so is Vegeta. I say Vegeta 6 times out of 10, but it will be an amazing and epic fight either way.
Last edited by RandomGuy96 on Thu Aug 08, 2013 4:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote:
Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.
I'm on board with the idea that it would be an even and epic fight between the two at practically-equal power, but Vegeta would eventually win. Mainly because Freeza's 100% would get the better of him and sooner or later cause his power to drop like a brick, leaving him vulnerable and at Vegeta's non-existent mercy.
Kid Buu wrote:If Vegeta went SSJ with Namek, how does his bout with Freeza go?
That;s about 116 r 155 vs 120 million. Hmm. Vegeta as shown in the Android arc have bullshit energy stamina. I also have Freeza more skilled and more durable. But I also have Vegeta being a ki blast whore. So I'll go with Freeza winning with Vegeta having a slim chance. HOWEVER it depends if Freeza 100% form get's worst fast enough due to Freeza most likely toying around and not getting the job done since he still have an edge. So once Vegeta with his high durability(Not as high as Freeza) last long enough for Freeza's power to lower then I honestly have Vegeta winning and destroying Freeza. So this can go either way.
I think Freeza can still more or less punt back Ssj Vegeta's attack.
I don't think things have changed much.
Freeza vs Vegeta would be nearly identical to Ssj Vegeta vs 100% Freeza imo. Freeza was a little bit stronger than Goku before and now he's a little bit weaker. The same massive gap should still be there though.
Mjb1985 wrote:I think Freeza can still more or less punt back Ssj Vegeta's attack.
I don't think things have changed much.
Freeza vs Vegeta would be nearly identical to Ssj Vegeta vs 100% Freeza imo. Freeza was a little bit stronger than Goku before and now he's a little bit weaker. The same massive gap should still be there though.
Freeza - 120 million(100%)
Vegeta's base - 2.5 million
SSJ Vegeta - 125,00,000
Well I think Vegeta was at 2.5 million. That way he's slightly stronger than 3rd form Freeza and still weaker than Freeza final form suppressed. So I think Vegeta can handle Freeeeeza as the Funimation Narrator would say.
I don't think power levels is the most accurate way to do things here.
Vegeta could not put up a fight against Freeza.
Goku was a bit weaker than Freeza but Goku was more skillful.
Freeza >= Goku > Vegeta
Freeza was superior by such a wide margin he was able to punt back his strongest ki attack and manhandled Vegeta with ease. Vegeta couldn't keep up with Freeza at all.
100% Freeza was able to put up a halfway decent fight against Ssj Goku. This reminds me of Initial Freeza vs Base Goku only with Goku with the advantage now.
So my point is, Vegeta clearly cannot compete with Goku while Freeza can.
I just don't see anything in the story that suggests Vegeta could contend with 100% Freeza or Super Saiyan Goku even if he himself had Super Saiyan as well.
Both at their prime. Do you think that Goku Jr. surpassed Goku? Did he ever managed to go beyond Super Saiyan?
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
Both at their prime. Do you think that Goku Jr. surpassed Goku? Did he ever managed to go beyond Super Saiyan?
Do you want to Goku Jr to die a painful death? Goku in his prime will just spit on that sad excuse of a Jr and he'll melt. The spit will burn his skin and Goku will eat his brain and spit it out on Pan's grave to show Pan what a horrible grandson Jr was.