Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

[ryan1227]

They probably learned how to suppress their battle powers from Kami's training.

[DanielSSJ]

Kaboom, sorry if I'm telling you what you already know, but it looks like your Powar Levul lists are down.

[Kaboom]

Kaboom, sorry if I'm telling you what you already know, but it looks like your Powar Levul lists are down.

Thanks. I did already know that my hosting method had stopped working and already figured out something else, but I forgot to change the links in my signature. Should be all fixed now.

[VegetaSSJBlue]

Z-Warriors vs. Freeza Power Levels


Son Goku – 4,800,000
Kaio-Ken x10 – 48,000,000
Kaio-Ken x20 – 96,000,000
Super Saiyan – 240,000,000

Freeza – 530,000
Second Form – 1,500,000
Third Form – 2,300,000
True Form – 5,000,000
50% Power – 100,000,000
70% Power – 140,000,000
100% Power – 200,000,000

Vegeta – 500,000
Post-recovery – 3,600,000

Son Gohan – 280,000
Enraged – 1,000,000
Post-recovery – 850,000
Enraged – 2,150,000

Piccolo – 300,000
Merged with Nail – 1,500,000

Kuririn – 12,000

[Noah]

Kuririn – 12,000

For realsies?

[VegetaSSJBlue]

Kuririn – 12,000

For realsies?

Special forces said their power was more than 10,000. Humans do not have zenkai.

[Noah]

Special forces said their power was more than 10,000. Humans do not have zenkai.

What about his power steadily rising according to Vegeta? Due to Guru unlocking his potential?

[VegetaSSJBlue]

Special forces said their power was more than 10,000. Humans do not have zenkai.

What about his power steadily rising according to Vegeta? Due to Guru unlocking his potential?

After unlocking does not increase its power again. Vegeta says he is increasing his power, but that is because he did not know of the unlock, and until recently had less than 2000 power.

[Dbzfan94]

Z-Warriors vs. Freeza Power Levels

Any reason while Goku/Freeza are so much higher than the Daizenshuu? Just curious

[ryan1227]

Special forces said their power was more than 10,000. Humans do not have zenkai.

Kuririn is at least above 23,000 at the Freeza fight, as he was able to gain the advantage on Ginyu-Goku, who was stated to be at 23,000.

[Noah]

What about a guide puting Freeza Arc Krillin at 70,000?

[ekrolo2]

I take issue with the official numbers for Vegeta and Krillin for when Freeza arrives, they're too low. Vegeta has to be at least approaching 500k for Freeza not to grind him into dust during their struggle and Krillin has to be close to Ginyu's level to be a viable combatant here.

[Kaboom]

I say this often, but there's really no rules for that kind of thing. It's totally plausible for a 250k power to manage to topple a 530k if he's got effective backup.

For a similar situation, look at Nappa's fight with Goku. For whatever reason he was already doing okay on his own at half of Goku's power, but imagine if he also had, say, Raditz (1,500) and some other fairly-strong Freeza soldier (3,000) on the scene backing him up. The backup doesn't have to be strong enough to fight the enemy directly, just good enough to do things like fire distracting pot-shots, or cancel out ki blasts from the side, and what have you.

Plus, there's that thing about Saiyans getting stronger the more they fight. Based on what Toriyama said about Goku vs Beerus, if a Saiyan is outmatched but manages to hang in there and keep fighting long enough, their strength will actually begin to increase (temporarily, I'd assume) and close the gap for them. That's very likely what was happening for Nappa and could have let him beat Goku, and the same thing may well have come through for Vegeta against Freeza too.

[Desassina]

Saiyans could be anywhere below the threshold to become a SSJ, when the latter is better depicted as 50% of their potential, or 50 times higher than 1% of their power. However, they don't need to sit at that percentage, so the increase is not always the same. Vegeta might have been 250'000 against Freeza when doubling his power would be enough to catch up to him, and double the power leaves 25 times the increase towards SSJ. It seemed believable, to be honest, so as long as we believe that power ranges as well.

[LightBing]

I'll just quote myself from a few pages back, regarding this very topic.

Vegeta's 250.000 number is even worse and it comes from the same source. Freeza saw in his scouter before it blow up and actually felt with both his hands Vegeta's power, proceeding to say:

Chapter: 295 (DBZ 101), P13.5-6, P14.1
Context: after Freeza and Vegeta grapple for awhile, after Vegeta said they could win
Freeza: “I see…Seems that wasn’t a complete lie…”
Gohan: “It-it’s true…! If we 3 fight together, we might really be able to manage something…H-he really is absolutely incredible, but we’ve gotten better too…!”
Kuririn: “I-I see…! Since coming here Vegeta’s acquired such strength that he seems to have even further surpassed his limits…B-but…F-Freeza is oddly calm…Why?...”

Would Freeza ever say this to a Vegeta displaying 250.000 of power, less than half than his own in that form?

Even taking into account that Kuririn's and Gohan's growing strength and rage explosions in the case of the latter as significant factors, that is likely Vegeta weighted Kuririn influence much less than his own and Gohan's, these are my lowest numbers possible within the manga's logic:
First Form Freeza - 530.000
Vegeta - 450.000
Gohan - 325.000
Kuririn - 180.000

The numbers V-Jump gave are:
Vegeta - 250k
Gohan - 200k
Kuririn - 75k

Which adds up to 525k, just short of Freeza's 530k.

It seems to me that whoever made up those numbers read this line:
Chapter: 295 (DBZ 101), P9.1-5
Vegeta: “We can win! If the 3 of us fight together, we’ll be able to win somehow or another! [ ] It seems that even Freeza hasn’t noticed…These two’s battle power is steadily rising…The squirt in particular hides so much inner strength that he doesn’t even know it himself…”

Came to the conclusion that Freeza should still be stronger but not by a lot, since Gohan and Kuririn are supposed to be increasing in power. Did a simple addition operation, where it distributed the numbers by the fighters perceived hierarchy to come up with these numbers.

Which is pretty silly, since the manga makes it abundantly clear that it isn't about adding numbers together to win.
Whoever made these numbers probably never read Dragon Ball, it seems. Even the most distracted person would came to the conclusion that the logic isn't that of a mathematical problem.

Poor Cell would be screwed at the Cell Games if that was the case, four SSJ plus Piccolo added up together would be greater than him.
Even Raditz, if we added up all of Earth's fighters it would give us 1371, greater than 1200. I'm not even counting Gohan or the fact the fighter can make use of amplified attacks.

[ekrolo2]

When discussing Base Saiyan's and how they stack up to #18 and Piccolo, a lot of people just look at the Boo arc and don't really go back to previous things to see how say Base Saiyans being above Piccolo works for the Cell Games.

Gohan is noticeably but not massively more powerful than Goku until he gets SS2. In the Boo arc, Goku & Vegeta had to spend 7 hard years of training to just get kind of stronger than him. This means that, at the very least, Base Gohan & Goku are already stronger than Piccolo at the Cell Games. Does this make any sense? I know Vegeta hits Cell hard enough to distract him just in Base in the manga but is that proof enough?

[Desassina]

Why couldn't Vegeta lose power upon taking his shot like when he returned to base with his assault on Beerus?

[ekrolo2]

Why couldn't Vegeta lose power upon taking his shot like when he returned to base with his assault on Beerus?

That's certainly possible, Vegeta was a Super Saiyan even after Cell kicks him away so he could've just charged one last, all-out attack and reverted by the time Cell looked at him. But I feel like Toriyama would've showed that happening. Its not impossible but its not 100% concrete either.

[LightBing]

Why couldn't Vegeta lose power upon taking his shot like when he returned to base with his assault on Beerus?

That's certainly possible, Vegeta was a Super Saiyan even after Cell kicks him away so he could've just charged one last, all-out attack and reverted by the time Cell looked at him. But I feel like Toriyama would've showed that happening. Its not impossible but its not 100% concrete either.

Didn't Piccolo sent Freeza flying just with Gohan's and Kuririn's remaining energy? There's a precedent for vastly weaker people damaging stronger foes, if they are distracted enough, which in Cell's case applies.

[ekrolo2]

Why couldn't Vegeta lose power upon taking his shot like when he returned to base with his assault on Beerus?

That's certainly possible, Vegeta was a Super Saiyan even after Cell kicks him away so he could've just charged one last, all-out attack and reverted by the time Cell looked at him. But I feel like Toriyama would've showed that happening. Its not impossible but its not 100% concrete either.

Didn't Piccolo sent Freeza flying just with Gohan's and Kuririn's remaining energy? There's a precedent for vastly weaker people damaging stronger foes, if they are distracted enough, which in Cell's case applies.

That situation with Cell is a bit weird for me to chalk it up to a sneak attack. With Freeza, he's just charging a small blast with his finger to blow Goku's brains out while Cell is firing the mother of all Kamehameha's and is using most if not all his power to kill Gohan. Or is it because Cell is pouring all of his energy into the blast its leaving him vulnerable?