"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[ekrolo2]

In September I was in Osaka and it was hard to get Volume 1 - sold out almost everywhere I went. Luckily I finally found one store with two last copies left.

Similar experience when I went to Japan in April, soon after the volume came out. I had no idea it was so popular, I just assumed I would come across it and buy it whenever, but then I found it was sold out everywhere I checked! Never managed to find it in Japan, so bought it from a local Kinokuniya after returning home. I hope volume 2 will have more copies printed to keep up with demand.

Damn, I didn't think demand for the manga was so big but I guess a lot of people are either really liking it or the anime is doing its job pretty well.

[kinisking]

In September I was in Osaka and it was hard to get Volume 1 - sold out almost everywhere I went. Luckily I finally found one store with two last copies left.

Similar experience when I went to Japan in April, soon after the volume came out. I had no idea it was so popular, I just assumed I would come across it and buy it whenever, but then I found it was sold out everywhere I checked! Never managed to find it in Japan, so bought it from a local Kinokuniya after returning home. I hope volume 2 will have more copies printed to keep up with demand.

Damn, I didn't think demand for the manga was so big but I guess a lot of people are either really liking it or the anime is doing its job pretty well.

It's not like it's selling crazy amounts. From what I read they just thought it was going to sell way less and so they barely made any copies.

[Zeru14]

Cant wait to see the manga's version on battles and power levels, which unlike the anime always seems more grounded and consistent. For instance in this chapter we are shown Future Trunks and Vegeta training in the gravity room, unlike the anime where Future Trunks and Vegeta just did a brief fight, and Future Trunks did some mental training, and yet Future Trunks improved enough from those to compete against Black and Future Zamasu, yeah that makes sense.

Besides the gravity room, I would like to see Future Trunks, train in the Time Chamber, I mean it got upgraded so anyone can go in it, for any amount time they want with no limits, seems kinda stupid for Future Trunks not find this out, and take advantage of it(like in the anime). Another fun idea, is for Future Trunks to meet the Old Kai(finding out about him being in the Z-Sword), and have his potential unlocked, allowing him to turn into "Ultimate Future Trunks", and which in turn would enhance his SSJ and SSJ2 forms. Really fun idea, he unlocks SSJ3.

[Metalwario64]

Well shoot, I liked the original better. I have a feeling the anime and all will be different from the original, soundtracks and all if they are even changing the logo.

From all appearances, this doesn't seem to be a case of a local license-holder making changes, a la FUNimation's GT logo, but rather Toei coming up with different assets for the international market.

Anyway, I still like this newer logo better, between the two.

I definitely agree. The original Super logo looked very lame and unbalanced with the addition of the Japanese "Super" after "Ball", which looks very shoehorned in and hurts the flow of the English lettering in the logo. The international one looks way better because the "Super" text is separate and is in the middle, which creates a better balance.

[HeroR]

Does anyone else think Toyotaro had Goku fight 4th Form Freeza with Super Saiyan God before going to Blue in his hypothetical Super F?

When Goku uses it at the tournament, none of the people who were usually present for the battle react at all to Goku being able to use God, save for Goten and Trunks who, even in Super, were told to buzz off before the final battle and were completely excluded from the movie version.

For his promotional manga of the movie, Toyotaro also treated Goku's base form as just being absorbed SSGod given the small flash of God we see when he rushes Whis. Is it far fetched to assume he would've just had God Goku fight 4th Form Freeza to keep the powers between arcs consistent?

Probably. Toyotaro seems to have scratched the whole "Goku absorbed the God power into his base form" that Toriyama introduced in BoG and F. Even Toriyama seems to have regretted it. It isn't showcased in either the Champa or Black arc in the manga or anime. The only times where Goku's base form was ridiculously powerful are the movie rehash arcs and the Copy-Vegeta filler, which were all Toei originals.

Toriyama never cared about power levels, so I doubt he regretted it. And the reason why Goku's base form being powerful isn't as obvious is because all the foes Goku has been fighting have stronger than final form Freeza and the weaker characters haven't done any real fighting since Resurrection 'F'. Just like how Super Saiyan stopped looking so impressive after the Cell Games despite it being a 50x multiplier.

[ekrolo2]

Toriyama never cared about power levels, so I doubt he regretted it. And the reason why Goku's base form being powerful isn't as obvious is because all the foes Goku has been fighting have stronger than final form Freeza and the weaker characters haven't done any real fighting since Resurrection 'F'. Just like how Super Saiyan stopped looking so impressive after the Cell Games despite it being a 50x multiplier.

So.... Piccolo's stronger than F era Freeza? Cause he can fight Frost to the point where he needs to resort to using the poison to win and both Goku & Vegeta need Super Saiyan to take Frost out. A Piccolo's who's treated as complete worthless shit tier by basically everyone present at the tourney. This is all manga stuff too. So clearly that, along with SSG being its own form again tells us Base Goku & Vegeta didn't absorb any God power at all.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Toriyama never cared about power levels, so I doubt he regretted it.

If he never cared, why is the entire original manga so consistent in these things? Why did he even give us numbers for BoG's top 3 fighters? I'm not saying that he is a maniac about these things, but the guy always paid attention in his stories.

[HeroR]

Toriyama never cared about power levels, so I doubt he regretted it.

If he never cared, why is the entire original manga so consistent in these things? Why did he even give us numbers for BoG's top 3 fighters? I'm not saying that he is a maniac about these things, but the guy always paid attention in his stories.

He only cares about power levels in the basic, who's stronger than who. Not that Goku and Vegeta are overpowered and can waste almost anyone without even transformating.

And the manga isn't that consistent with power levels. Also, Toriyama pays attention to his own story to a point, otherwise Dragon Ball wouldn't be littered with plot holes.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

And the manga isn't that consistent with power levels.

What inconsistencies are you referring to?

[HeroR]

And the manga isn't that consistent with power levels.

What inconsistencies are you referring to?

One being how did Piccolo become as strong as a Super Saiyan in three years which made him stronger than final form Freeza in three year just by training? That's a huge growth with no fusion and Piccolo has never been able to repeat that. And why are the boosts for Saiyans being near death all over the place?

[ekrolo2]

And the manga isn't that consistent with power levels.

What inconsistencies are you referring to?

One being how did Piccolo become as strong as a Super Saiyan in three years which made him stronger than final form Freeza in three year just by training? That's a huge growth with no fusion and Piccolo has never been able to repeat that. And why are the boosts for Saiyans being near death all over the place?

Toriyama always had a clear hierarchy of where characters stood in relation to one another. If Krillin was worthless shit tier to Perfect Cell, Toriyama kept him there and would only change said positions through an in-universe development. The manga for Super functions in a similar way whereas the anime would've had Krillin turn into Super Krillin due to a rage boost and bitch slap Perfect Cell around for eating #18, none of which would make a lick of sense in universe but it would happen.

[Nejishiki]

There's context that needs to be addressed here.

Why did you come up with the “scouter” item?
My number-one goal in coming up with it was because, if an opponent’s strength could be seen as a number, it would be very easy for the readers to understand when I put it in the comic. However, I could foresee that it’d be an inconvenience for me down the line, because if you knew a concrete number, then you could tell who would win or lose, so with regards to Goku & co., I decided that [their power] would change due to “Ki” and couldn’t be adequately measured.
In addition, it’s a very convenient item to create peril, since with enemies equipped with them, their location could become known, and they could be reported.

He cites level of convenience here, not that he cares or doesn't care. Then he elaborates why he continued with ki readings instead, presumably because they're more vague and allow for surprises in the narrative.

Compared to Beerus, God of Destruction, how strong is [Super Saiyan] God?
I suppose if Beerus’ strength is a 10, [Super Saiyan] God would be right about 6. Only, Saiyans rapidly increase in strength as they fight against strong opponents, so the longer they fought, the more that gap would shrink, and it might even be possible for them to eventually turn the tables. Incidentally, I guess Whis would be about a 15.

As usual, Toriyama is supposing and guessing his statements. He was asked the question and gave a rough estimate using numbers. It doesn't necessarily mean that he always had it in mind, as precedence would prove. It's a simple guide taken too literally, I would say.

The manga for Super functions in a similar way whereas the anime would've had Krillin turn into Super Krillin due to a rage boost and bitch slap Perfect Cell around for eating #18, none of which would make a lick of sense in universe but it would happen.

There's no hint that something like that would happen in the anime's style of storytelling. An example needs to feel organic. That's hyperbole. Incidentally, when the anime staff did extend on that, it matched the tone of the manga it was following. Kuririn was in grief and his best techniques were rendered useless.

[ekrolo2]

The manga for Super functions in a similar way whereas the anime would've had Krillin turn into Super Krillin due to a rage boost and bitch slap Perfect Cell around for eating #18, none of which would make a lick of sense in universe but it would happen.

There's no hint that something like that would happen in the anime's style of storytelling. An example needs to feel organic. That's hyperbole. Incidentally, when the anime did extend on that, it matched the tone of the manga it was following. Kuririn was in grief and his best techniques were rendered useless.

I worded that poorly, if the original Z anime had no manga to use as a basis and was done with the same style as Super is currently done, Super Krillin would be a thing. Also, Toriyama supports his own "God scale" in the actual film by adding in the line about Beerus using 70% power to beat Goku. So, unless this was one of those added lines not in the script, he's clearly more than just guessing on the spot where Goku is in relation to Beerus.

[HeroR]

There's context that needs to be addressed here.

Why did you come up with the “scouter” item?
My number-one goal in coming up with it was because, if an opponent’s strength could be seen as a number, it would be very easy for the readers to understand when I put it in the comic. However, I could foresee that it’d be an inconvenience for me down the line, because if you knew a concrete number, then you could tell who would win or lose, so with regards to Goku & co., I decided that [their power] would change due to “Ki” and couldn’t be adequately measured.
In addition, it’s a very convenient item to create peril, since with enemies equipped with them, their location could become known, and they could be reported.

He cites level of convenience here, not that he cares or doesn't care. Then he elaborates why he continued with ki readings instead, presumably because they're more vague and allow for surprises in the narrative.

Compared to Beerus, God of Destruction, how strong is [Super Saiyan] God?
I suppose if Beerus’ strength is a 10, [Super Saiyan] God would be right about 6. Only, Saiyans rapidly increase in strength as they fight against strong opponents, so the longer they fought, the more that gap would shrink, and it might even be possible for them to eventually turn the tables. Incidentally, I guess Whis would be about a 15.

As usual, Toriyama is supposing and guessing his statements. He was asked the question and gave a rough estimate using numbers. It doesn't necessarily mean that he always had it in mind, as precedence would prove. It's a simple guide taken too literally, I would say.

The manga for Super functions in a similar way whereas the anime would've had Krillin turn into Super Krillin due to a rage boost and bitch slap Perfect Cell around for eating #18, none of which would make a lick of sense in universe but it would happen.

There's no hint that something like that would happen in the anime's style of storytelling. An example needs to feel organic. That's hyperbole. Incidentally, when the anime staff did extend on that, it matched the tone of the manga it was following. Kuririn was in grief and his best techniques were rendered useless.

Plus the manga had 75,000 Krillin standing up to Freeza. How did Krillin get 75,000 when the Ginyu Force wrecked him and doesn't get a boost like a Saiyan, not explained.

So let's stop pretending that power levels and scaling in the manga always made sense.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

One being how did Piccolo become as strong as a Super Saiyan in three years which made him stronger than final form Freeza in three year just by training? That's a huge growth with no fusion and Piccolo has never been able to repeat that. And why are the boosts for Saiyans being near death all over the place?

Piccolo had just merged with Nail, which could have opened his way for greater growth, and he also had a Super Saiyan as his sparring partner for 3 years. As for the near-death power-ups, they just give random boosts, it's just how they work.

What you mentioned aren't inconsistencies, not only because they can be explained, but because the growth through training isn't even consistent in real life either. There are many factors that determine these things. We don't have things in the manga like base Goku & Piccolo fighting both at full power evenly, and then Piccolo giving trouble against SS Goku at full power (random example I just came up with).

[ekrolo2]

Plus the manga had 75,000 Krillin standing up to Freeza. How did Krillin get 75,000 when the Ginyu Force wrecked him and doesn't get a boost like a Saiyan, not explained.

So let's stop pretending that power levels and scaling in the manga always made sense.

The manga makes no such power level for him, all the manga says is that Krillin and Gohan's powers have steadily been rising ever since they've fought got Grand Elder's boost. And you miss my point, regardless if PLs made perfect sense, the hierarchy was rock solid, if Gohan was the sole character to have rage boosts, he remained as such. If Goku was established as being on par with Freeza, Piccolo didn't randomly start to take him on in his higher percentages of power.

[HeroR]

One being how did Piccolo become as strong as a Super Saiyan in three years which made him stronger than final form Freeza in three year just by training? That's a huge growth with no fusion and Piccolo has never been able to repeat that. And why are the boosts for Saiyans being near death all over the place?

Piccolo had just merged with Nail, which could have opened his way for greater growth, and he also had a Super Saiyan as his sparring partner for 3 years. As for the near-death power-ups, they just give random boosts, it's just how they work.

What you mentioned aren't inconsistencies, not only because they can be explained, but because the growth through training isn't even consistent in real life either. There are many factors that determine these things. We don't have things in the manga like base Goku & Piccolo fighting both at full power evenly, and then Piccolo giving trouble against SS Goku at full power (random example I just came up with).

He merged with Kami, his other half, and didn't get such a huge growth in seven years (eight if we count the Time Chamber). So him getting a growth by Nail doesn't make sense.

And how did Krillin power up against Freeza when the Ginyu Force was too much for him?

[Noah]

He merged with Kami, his other half, and didn't get such a huge growth in seven years (eight if we count the Time Chamber). So him getting a growth by Nail doesn't make sense.

And how did Krillin power up against Freeza when the Ginyu Force was too much for him?

As a matter of fact, Nail is way stronger than Kami or the nameless namekian, the first fusion as a huge power boost due to that a union of two talented warrios from the Dragon Clan, and the second even though as a great boost too, it only served for means of the union of two half parts.

About Krillin:

... all the manga says is that Krillin and Gohan's powers have steadily been rising ever since they've fought got Grand Elder's boost.

[Zeru14]

The Namek Elder's Unlock Potential, was implied in the dialogue, to be a slow burn(Vegeta noticed, their power was growing), when first used Krillin and Gohan's power level went from over 1,000 to over 10,000, then kept a steady increase overtime till it was fully finished, by the time their battle with 1st form Frieza, started it was about done, with Krillin's level being 75,000 and Gohan's being 200,000. As for the Piccolo/Nail fusion boost, as stated it was probably such a large one, because of the compatibility, both were "warrior-type" Nameks, with a strong resemblance to each other, so fusion power bonus, would be huge, compared to Piccolo fusing with lets say one of the three fighting Nameks that Dodoria killed.

[HeroR]

The Namek Elder's Unlock Potential, was implied in the dialogue, to be a slow burn(Vegeta noticed, their power was growing), when first used Krillin and Gohan's power level went from over 1,000 to over 10,000, then kept a steady increase overtime till it was fully finished, by the time their battle with 1st form Frieza, started it was about done, with Krillin's level being 75,000 and Gohan's being 200,000. As for the Piccolo/Nail fusion boost, as stated it was probably such a large one, because of the compatibility, both were "warrior-type" Nameks, with a strong resemblance to each other, so fusion power bonus, would be huge, compared to Piccolo fusing with lets say one of the three fighting Nameks that Dodoria killed.

Krillin had his power unlocked for six days before the Ginyu Force came. So his power went from around 10,000 to 75,000 in hours, but for some reason didn't reached that point at any time during the six days his power was unleashed. Gohan got his boost from being pushed near-death twice before Freeza went into his final form.

And the Piccolo boost makes no sense using Nail since he went from weaker than third form Freeza in three years with just training, yet couldn't repeat the result when he merged wit his other half and had eight years worth of training.