Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

[Doctor.]

The way I figured it is that Goku's power varies between how Toriyama and Toei feel like, because they don't give a single fuck about powerlevel consistency, and Toyotaro is the only one who tries to make sense out of this mess, but even he fails at it.

[ZombieVito]

The way I've figured it for ages now is that when Goku went Super Saiyan near the end of his fight with Beerus, all he managed to do at the time was use the form to temporarily prolong his grip on the fading god-power. That power was absorbed into Goku's being and is still under there somewhere, but it's not actually integrated with and channeled by Super Saiyan form at will until after Goku's trained under Whis, and that's what Super Saiyan Blue is.

Yeah this is exactly what I'm referring to.

It's not until he learns to use god ki that he uses the full power of Super Saiyan God again.

[Alruneia]

The way I figured it is that Goku's power varies between how Toriyama and Toei feel like, because they don't give a single fuck about powerlevel consistency, and Toyotaro is the only one who tries to make sense out of this mess, but even he fails at it.

Where has Toyotarou been inconsistent with power levels? Genuine question. Not counting the Resurrection F manga.

[emperior]

Hello, I decided to make a new list about DBZ Power levels. I've tried as hardest as I could to stay as low as possible.


Multipliers
Oozaru - 10x base
SSJ - 50x Base
SSJ2 - 100x Base
SSJ3 - 200x Base

Fusions
Dance = [(A+B)] x 5
Potara = [(A+B)] x 50

Dragon Ball Z


Raditz Arc

[spoiler]Goku
Weighted - 334
Full Power - 416

Piccolo
Weighted - 322
Full Power - 408

Gohan
Base - 1
Anger - 1307

Raditz - 1200

Master Roshi - 139

Krillin - 206

Tenshinan - 250[/spoiler]


Saiyan Saga

[spoiler]Goku
Suppressed - 5000
Base - 8000
Kaioken x2 - 16,000
Kaioken x3 - 24,000
Kaioken x4 - 32,000

Gohan
Base - 980
Angered - 2700

Piccolo - 2500

Krillin - 1770

Yamcha - 1480

Tenshinan - 1830

Yajirobe - 970

Chiaotzu - 610

Saibamen - 1200

Nappa - 4000

Vegeta
Base - 18,000
Great Ape Full Power - 180,000
Great Ape damaged - 60,000[/spoiler]


Namek Arc

[spoiler]Goku (Arrival)
Suppressed - 5000
Base - 90,000
Kaioken vs Ginyu - 120,000
Kaioken x2 - 180,000

Krillin (Power unlocked) - 12,000

Gohan (Power unlocked) - 15,000

Nail - 42,000

Namekian Warriors - 3,000

Vegeta
Base - 24,000
1st Zenkai - 30,000
2nd Zenkai - 150,000

Cui - 18,000

Dodoria - 22,000

Zarbon
Base - 23,000
Transformed - 28,000

Recoome - 40,000

Burter - 50,000


Jeice - 45,000

Guldo
Battle power - 1,000
Psychic Powers - 30,000

Captain Ginyu - 90,000

Ginyu in Goku’s body - 23,000[/spoiler]


Freezer’s Saga

[spoiler]Goku after Zenkai
Base - 300,000
Kaioken x10 - 3,000,000
Kaioken x20 - 6,000,000
Super Saiyan - 10,000,000

(Goku as a SSJ was already tired from the fight before, so he can’t use his full power)

Krillin - 25,000

Gohan after Zenkai
Base - 150,000

Piccolo (Merged with Nail) - 1,200,000

Vegeta
Base - 250,000
After Zenkai - 320,000

Freezer
1st form - 530,000
2nd form - 1,260,000
3rd form - 3,000,000
Final Form (50%) - 5,000,000
Final Form (Full Power) - 10,000,000
Final Form (Tired) - 8,000,000
100% Form (Tired) - 10,000,000

(Freezer was tired in his final form after the Genkidama)[/spoiler]


Trunks Arc

[spoiler]Mecha Freezer - 12,000,000

King Cold - 3,000,000

Future Trunks
Base - 320,000
SSJ - 16,000,000

Goku
Base - 360,000
SSJ - 18,000,000

Vegeta - 320,000

Piccolo - 1,200,000

Gohan - 150,000

Krillin - 25,000

Tenshinhan - 15,000

Yamcha - 12,000[/spoiler]


Android Saga

[spoiler]Goku
Base - 380,000
SSJ - 19,000,000
SSJ (Heart Virus) - 9,000,000

Vegeta
Base - 400,000
SSJ - 20,000,000

Future Trunks
Base - 320,000
SSJ - 16,000,000

Piccolo - 15,000,000


Gohan - 200,000

Tenshinhan - 30,000

Krillin - 35,000

Yamcha - 25,000


Android 19 - 10,000,000
Energy Absorbed - 12,000,000

Dr.Gero - 10,000,000
Energy Absorbed - 12,000,000


C-18 - 28,000,000

C-17 - 29,000,000[/spoiler]

Cell Saga

[spoiler]Piccolo (Kami)
Full Power - 30,000,000
Worn Out - 29,000,000

Android 16 - 31,000,000

Cell
Imperfect - 29,000,000
Humans Absorbed - 30,000,000
Semi Perfect - 40,000,000
Perfect Cell (60%) - 60,000,000

Vegeta
Base - 840,000
SSJ - 42,000,000 (Speed = 100%, Stamina = 50, Stamina = 90% Base)
SSJ Grade 2 - 52,000,000 (Speed = 90%, Stamina = 85% Base)

Trunks
Base - 820,000
SSJ - 41,000,000 (Speed = 100%, Stamina = 90% Base)
SSJ Grade 2 - 51,000,000 (Speed = 90%, Stamina = 85% Base)
SSJ Grade 3 - 61,000,000 (Speed = 80%, Stamina = 80% Base)
(He is slightly weaker than Vegeta, but grade 3 his power his greater than Cell's, but he lacks the speed necessary to beat him)[/spoiler]

Cell Games

[spoiler]Goku
Base - 1,700,000
FPSSJ - 85,000,000 (Stamina = 99% Base)

Gohan
Base - 1,800,000
FPSSJ - 90,000,000 (Stamina = 99% Base)
SSJ2 - 180,000,000
Wounded - 160,000,000
Father-Son Kamehameha - 250,000,000

Perfect Cell
vs Goku - 85,000,000
vs Gohan - 90,000,000
Full Power - 100,000,000
Super Perfect - 170,000,000,000

Cell Jrs - 50,000,000

Vegeta
Base - 860,000
SSJ - 43,000,000

Trunks
Base - 840,000
SSJ - 42,000,000

Piccolo - 40,000,000[/spoiler]


The Future

[spoiler]Future C-17- 25,000,000

Future C-18- 24,000,000

Future Gohan
Base - 300,000
SSJ - 15,000,000

Future Teen Trunks
Base - 250,000
SSJ - 12,500,000
Post 3 years - 300,000
SSJ- 15,000,000

Future Cell- 26,000,000[/spoiler]


Babidi Saga

[spoiler]Gohan
Base - 1,600,000
SSJ - 80,000,000
Post Training - 1,700,000
FPSSJ - 85,000,000
SSJ2 - 170,000,000

Goten
Base - 550,000
FPSSJ - 27,500,000
Post Training with Gohan - 660,000
FPSSJ - 30,000,000

Trunks
Base - 600,000
FPSSJ - 30,000,000
Post Training with Vegeta- 650,000
FPSSJ - 32,500,000

Goku
Base - 2,000,000
FPSSJ - 100,000,000
SSJ2 - 200,000,000
SSJ3 - 400,000,000

Vegeta
Base - 1,900,000
FPSSJ - 95,000,000
SSJ2 - 190,000,000
Majin Vegeta - 200,000,000

Krillin - 35,000

Android 18 - 28,000,000

Piccolo - 40,000,000

Kaioshin- 60,000,000

Kibito - 10,000,000


Pui-Pui - 10,000

Yakon - 1,500,000

Dabura - 170,000,000


Majin Buu - 350,000,000
Good Buu - 250,000,000
Evil Buu - 250,000,000

Gotenks
Base - 6,000,000
FPSSJ - 300,000,000[/spoiler]

Buu Saga

[spoiler]Goten
Base - 900,000
FPSSJ - 45,000,000

Trunks
Base - 900,000
FPSSJ - 45,000,000

Gotenks
Base - 9,000,000
FPSSJ - 450,000,000
SSJ3 - 1,800,000,000

(Gotenks was clearly better than Super Buu and he knew, but decided to play around)

Mystic Gohan - 3,000,000,000

Super Buu - 1,500,000,000
Buutenks - 3,300,000,000
Buuhan - 4,500,000,000

Vegetto
Base - 200,000,000
SSJ - 10,000,000,000

Kid Buu - 300,000[/spoiler]

[ekrolo2]

The way I've figured it for ages now is that when Goku went Super Saiyan near the end of his fight with Beerus, all he managed to do at the time was use the form to temporarily prolong his grip on the fading god-power. That power was absorbed into Goku's being and is still under there somewhere, but it's not actually integrated with and channeled by Super Saiyan form at will until after Goku's trained under Whis, and that's what Super Saiyan Blue is.

Yeah this is exactly what I'm referring to.

It's not until he learns to use god ki that he uses the full power of Super Saiyan God again.

So how much weaker do you have Goku than his Blue form in Base?

[ZombieVito]

The way I've figured it for ages now is that when Goku went Super Saiyan near the end of his fight with Beerus, all he managed to do at the time was use the form to temporarily prolong his grip on the fading god-power. That power was absorbed into Goku's being and is still under there somewhere, but it's not actually integrated with and channeled by Super Saiyan form at will until after Goku's trained under Whis, and that's what Super Saiyan Blue is.

Yeah this is exactly what I'm referring to.

It's not until he learns to use god ki that he uses the full power of Super Saiyan God again.

So how much weaker do you have Goku than his Blue form in Base?

20,000 - 25,000 times depending if I'm using the two base theory or not.

[Doctor.]

The way I figured it is that Goku's power varies between how Toriyama and Toei feel like, because they don't give a single fuck about powerlevel consistency, and Toyotaro is the only one who tries to make sense out of this mess, but even he fails at it.

Where has Toyotarou been inconsistent with power levels? Genuine question. Not counting the Resurrection F manga.

Hit's power is extremely inconsistent mostly because he can't portray how strong he's supposed to be correctly. We're lead to assume that he's equal to SS Goku, but then he tanks hits from SSG Goku (who's massively, massively above SS) and then even manages to dodge SSB Goku's Kamehameha. Hit doesn't have his improvement like in the anime, either, so that's not an excuse.

It's the "Cell/Beerus syndrome", where a character is portrayed as being at a certain level, but then it gets retconned later because the power was probably too low, except this doesn't happen in a span of multiple chapters/episodes, but in the same fight.

[DanielSSJ]

*snip*

A few issues.
Okay the big thing. I know you're trying to keep power levels as small as possible, but how the heck does pre-death Vegeta think he can beat Freeza's final form is he's not even on par with Freeza's first form? You're nerfing of the base Saiyans during the Freeza arc compromises the rest of the list.

[emperior]

*snip*

A few issues.
Okay the big thing. I know you're trying to keep power levels as small as possible, but how the heck does pre-death Vegeta think he can beat Freeza's final form is he's not even on par with Freeza's first form? You're nerfing of the base Saiyans during the Freeza arc compromises the rest of the list.

Thanks for the feedback. I know, basically nerfing Vegeta in the Namek arc is the only way to have low power levels throughout all the serie. The maxest I can buff him up without changing the whole list is to 530,000 (equal 1st form Freezer) and just pretend Vegeta was too cocky to admit his Zenkai didn't make him as strong as he thought. If you have any advice tell me what you would change. You also mentioned more than one issue, did you forgot to write the others or is that the only one?

It's just this difficult to make a power levels list while trying to keep everything small. I am the first one who admits power levels make no sense after the Namek arc and should be discarded, but it's fun to make these sort of lists

[DanielSSJ]

Thanks for the feedback. I know, basically nerfing Vegeta in the Namek arc is the only way to have low power levels throughout all the serie. The maxest I can buff him up without changing the whole list is to 530,000 (equal 1st form Freezer) and just pretend Vegeta was too cocky to admit his Zenkai didn't make him as strong as he thought. If you have any advice tell me what you would change. You also mentioned more than one issue, did you forgot to write the others or is that the only one?

It's just this difficult to make a power levels list while trying to keep everything small. I am the first one who admits power levels make no sense after the Namek arc and should be discarded, but it's fun to make these sort of lists

I get why you want to keep the numbers from getting too huge, but the list doesn't work if Vegeta and Goku aren't at least stronger than Piccolo during the Freeza arc.

The other things were fairly small stuff, like Saiyan Arc Gohan being 2,700 instead of 2,800 and Captain Ginyu not being listed as 120,000.

[Alruneia]

The way I figured it is that Goku's power varies between how Toriyama and Toei feel like, because they don't give a single fuck about powerlevel consistency, and Toyotaro is the only one who tries to make sense out of this mess, but even he fails at it.

Where has Toyotarou been inconsistent with power levels? Genuine question. Not counting the Resurrection F manga.

Hit's power is extremely inconsistent mostly because he can't portray how strong he's supposed to be correctly. We're lead to assume that he's equal to SS Goku, but then he tanks hits from SSG Goku (who's massively, massively above SS) and then even manages to dodge SSB Goku's Kamehameha. Hit doesn't have his improvement like in the anime, either, so that's not an excuse.

It's the "Cell/Beerus syndrome", where a character is portrayed as being at a certain level, but then it gets retconned later because the power was probably too low, except this doesn't happen in a span of multiple chapters/episodes, but in the same fight.

Huh. Fair enough. That's a bit of a downer, but I think I can live with one mistake like that when the alternative is so much worse.

[ekrolo2]

Hit's power is extremely inconsistent mostly because he can't portray how strong he's supposed to be correctly. We're lead to assume that he's equal to SS Goku, but then he tanks hits from SSG Goku (who's massively, massively above SS) and then even manages to dodge SSB Goku's Kamehameha. Hit doesn't have his improvement like in the anime, either, so that's not an excuse.

It's the "Cell/Beerus syndrome", where a character is portrayed as being at a certain level, but then it gets retconned later because the power was probably too low, except this doesn't happen in a span of multiple chapters/episodes, but in the same fight.

This is true, even as a guy who usually defends the manga's power levels, Hit remains a big problem. I think the issue is that Toyotaro didn't know if SS2 and SS3 could happen still as he was writing it so he probably assumed SS1 was a bigger increase than before, hence why there doesn't seem to be a big gap between SS1 to 10% Vegeta to SSGod.

[TheUltimateNinja]

Alright, I've come up with a way to explain the Super anime's power structure.

Battle of Gods: We know SSG Goku is superior to SSJ3 Vegetto, let's say Vegetto's base is 100x stronger than Goku's, his SSJ3 would be 40,000x Goku's base, so SSG could be a 50,000x multiplier. Goku retained most of that power even after he dropped down to base, so let's say he's at 35,000-40,000x his regular base and once he goes SSJ he regains the full power of SSG temporarily. Also, we know Goku isn't stronger than Frieza so let's have them equal for simplicity's sake. And Beerus has to be massively stronger than SSG Goku if even SSBlue Kaioken x10 Goku is nothing to him, so let's say SSG Goku is only 1-2% of his power.

Power levels:
Goku: 120,000,000 SSG: 6,000,000,000,000 Base (Post): 4,500,000,000,000 SSJ (Post): 6,000,000,000,000

Beerus: 500,000,000,000,000 Vs Goku: 7,000,000,000,000

F: I'm going to use the two base theory here. I'm going to have Goku's Godly base be as strong as SSG and SSBlue at 1.5x that, it fits quite well. Also, I have Frieza's Golden form at a 2.5x multiplier.

Power levels:
Goku: 7,000,000,000,000 SSBlue: 10,500,000,000,000

Frieza: 5,200,000,000,000 Golden: 13,000,000,000,000

Tournament:: This is where it gets kinda tricky. I have Goku and Vegeta not improving all that much in the time chamber, but still a good deal stronger than before. Hit also becomes progressively stronger as his timeskip extends. Also, Goku only maintains Kaioken x10 for a short period of time and then his energy drops.

Goku: 200,000,000 SSJ: 10,000,000,000 God: 10,000,000,000,000 SSBlue: 15,000,000,000,000 SSBlue Kkx10: 150,000,000,000,000

Frost: 35,000,000 Assault form: 140,000,000 Final Form: 7,000,000,000 Exhausted: 4,000,000,000

Piccolo: 3,300,000,000

Vegeta: 196,000,000 SSJ: 9,800,000,000 SSJ2: 19,600,000,000 God: 9,800,000,000,000 SSBlue: 14,700,000,000,000

Cabba: 190,000,000 SSJ: 9,500,000,000

Hit: 15,000,000,000,000 0.2s: 30,000,000,000,000 0.5s: 75,000,000,000,000 Final: 90,000,000,000,000

Trunks Arc: This one's real weird in terms of powerscaling, but I'll do the best I can. I have Trunks obtaining some God ki and basically turning his SSJ2 into an imitation of SSG to explain him keeping up with Black and Zamasu somewhat, and Super Trunks is a weaker version of SSBlue. Also, SSRose is the same as SSBlue and Potara is massively nerfed when God ki comes into play.

Power levels:
Goku: 220,000,000 SSJ2: 22,000,000,000 SSJ3: 88,000,000,000 SSBlue: 16,500,000,000,000 Rage boost: 24,000,000,000,000

Vegeta: 216,000,000 SSJ: 10,800,000,000 SSJ2: 21,600,000,000 SSBlue: 16,200,000,000,000

Trunks: 200,000,000 SSJ: 10,000,000,000 SSJ2: 20,000,000,000 Rage boost: 25,000,000,000

Black: 30,000,000,000 In Past: 20,000,000,000 Powered up: 22,500,000,000 God: 15,000,000,000,000 SSRose: 22,500,000,000,000

Zamasu; 18,000,000,000 Future: 12,500,000,000,000

Trunks (Post training): 212,000,000 SSJ2: 21,200,000,000 SSJ2 (God): 10,600,000,000,000 Super Trunks: 14,500,000,000,000

Vegeta (Post RoSAT): 18,000,000,000,000 SSBlue: 27,000,000,000,000

Black (Zenkai): SSRose:27,500,000,000,000

Merged Zamasu: 40,000,000,000,000

Goku (Zenkai): SSBlue: 21,000,000,000,000 Kaioken: 42,000,000,000,000

Vegetto: 48,000,000,000,000 SSBlue: 72,000,000,000,000

Corrupted Zamasu: 40,000,000,000,000 Light of Justice: 60,000,000,000,000 Buff: 75,000,000,000,000 Breaking down: 25,000,000,000,000

Spirit Trunks: 26,500,000,000,000

[ZombieVito]

You have an error there. Future Trunks base is stronger than Super Saiyan Kid Trunks, as shown in episode 59.

Everything else seems fine. Having Super Saiyan Blue be only a 1.5x multiplier from Saiyan Beyond God is actually not a bad idea. I would probably use at least a 5x multiplier though.

[TheUltimateNinja]

You have an error there. Future Trunks base is stronger than Super Saiyan Kid Trunks, as shown in episode 59.

Everything else seems fine. Having Super Saiyan Blue be only a 1.5x multiplier from Saiyan Beyond God is actually not a bad idea. I would probably use at least a 5x multiplier though.

Forgot to include his new base w/ God ki, it's 100x weaker than his SSJ2 so 106,000,000,000.

[DanielSSJ]

Having Super Saiyan Blue be only a 1.5x multiplier from Saiyan Beyond God is actually not a bad idea. I would probably use at least a 5x multiplier though.

Honestly, if it weren't for Toyotaro's manga showing the two forms being used side-by-side, I probably wouldn't even change the God power boost. I originally figured that Super Saiyan Blue was just another way to channel the power of Super Saiyan God, and that whatever power boost Goku got was more due to training than from using a different form.

I suppose it makes sense that by using the Super Saiyan to stabilize the unwieldy Super Saiyan God form, Goku and Vegeta would be able to draw out more power from it. I'd only make it a 2x boost at most, though.

[ekrolo2]

Having Super Saiyan Blue be only a 1.5x multiplier from Saiyan Beyond God is actually not a bad idea. I would probably use at least a 5x multiplier though.

Honestly, if it weren't for Toyotaro's manga showing the two forms being used side-by-side, I probably wouldn't even change the God power boost. I originally figured that Super Saiyan Blue was just another way to channel the power of Super Saiyan God, and that whatever power boost Goku got was more due to training than from using a different form.

I suppose it makes sense that by using the Super Saiyan to stabilize the unwieldy Super Saiyan God form, Goku and Vegeta would be able to draw out more power from it. I'd only make it a 2x boost at most, though.

For the manga, I usually treat Blue as the SS2 to Gods SS1.

[ZombieVito]

You have an error there. Future Trunks base is stronger than Super Saiyan Kid Trunks, as shown in episode 59.

Everything else seems fine. Having Super Saiyan Blue be only a 1.5x multiplier from Saiyan Beyond God is actually not a bad idea. I would probably use at least a 5x multiplier though.

Forgot to include his new base w/ God ki, it's 100x weaker than his SSJ2 so 106,000,000,000.

Trunks didn't have god ki there. Hell it's debatable that he has it at all, even on his Super Trunks form.

[DanielSSJ]

For the manga, I usually treat Blue as the SS2 to Gods SS1.

I would treat it more like Super Saiyan 2 vs Super Saiyan Grade 2. The power of Super Saiyan God and Super Saiyan Blue comes from the same source but Blue is a more efficient version. But that's just my opinion.

[ekrolo2]

For the manga, I usually treat Blue as the SS2 to Gods SS1.

I would treat it more like Super Saiyan 2 vs Super Saiyan Grade 2. The power of Super Saiyan God and Super Saiyan Blue comes from the same source but Blue is a more efficient version. But that's just my opinion.

Blue must be an increase, though, Hit was able to stop Goku in SSG but when Goku activate Blue, his power increased enough to break Hit's best Time Skip. Efficiency wouldn't exactly make much of a difference there.