Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[Khin]

So... With this pic: [spoiler][/spoiler]

We can finally put this thread to rest, don't we?


THERE IS NO F***** SENSE ANYMORE!

That's like saying “there's no sense anymore” just by seeing a leaked image of Freeza fighting against Base Goku in the FnF movie without knowing anything what happened in the movie.

Why not just wait until the episode airs before coming to conclusions ?

[Bullza]

We already saw Trunks get the upper hand over Black once and kick him into a building. If he's supposed to get stronger in an episode or two because of some rage boost then why is it so surprising?

I gotta say though, I didn't mind Trunks being comparable to Goku's Super Saiyan forms and I always believed he was stronger than Super Saiyan God but it's sorta shitting on the impact of the Blue and Rose form to see Trunks fighting on par with it.

[DBZ Macky]

Maybe gaps in battle power matter less when you reach SSJ Vegetto level.
You can literally put up a good fight against anyone when you reach SSJ Vegetto tier.
Beerus and Whis are far above that tier in a tier of their own.

It's already been established that Powar Levuls don't scale linearly.
For Example:
Goku at a PL of 10 was able to perform feats that dozens of humans at a battle power of 5 couldn't perform.
Mr. Satan is surely below BoDB Goku so he's around 6-8 PL IMO, still he's able to casually handle a PL of 5-6.
Later we see that Zarbon at 23k was unable to fight back against Vegeta at 24k, this is a 1.04x difference, or a difference of 1,000 Battle Power.
However, Freeza is able to put somewhat of a fight against SSJ Goku which is a gap of 1.25x or 30 million.

So, literally anyone can fight anyone at this point no matter how huge the gap is, provided that they are above Super Vegetto.
Same is the case for DBGT if you want to make that power scaling work too.

[Noah]

So... With this pic: [spoiler][/spoiler]

We can finally put this thread to rest, don't we?


THERE IS NO F***** SENSE ANYMORE!

That's like saying “there's no sense anymore” just by seeing a leaked image of Freeza fighting against Base Goku in the FnF movie without knowing anything what happened in the movie.

Why not just wait until the episode airs before coming to conclusions ?

I was not serious and you're late, we passed this topic already.

About your example: Not at all, we did know the RoF wouldn't make any sense if Freeza come back with the same battle power he had before, yes in the time was a even big uproar he jumping to a untrained SSJ-tier to a God Saiyan, but until that time it was consistent and he knew why, even though was hard to believe

[Khin]

I was not serious and you're late, we passed this topic already.

About your example: Not at all, we did know the RoF wouldn't make any sense if Freeza come back with the same battle power he had before, yes in the time was a even big uproar he jumping to a untrained SSJ-tier to a God Saiyan, but until that time it was consistent and he knew why, even though was hard to believe

That's the point. Everyone back then complained about how Freeza can put up a fight against Post-God Goku without even knowing anything about the movie but a minimal information and a minute or so trailer. Then once the movie aired we had an explanation why Freeza got that strong.

Same thing is happening with that leaked image. Everyone is complaining about Trunks can seemingly punch SSR Black without knowing anything about the episode. Perhaps Trunks got a power-up ? Perhaps a new form ? Perhaps Black is just toying around so he can gain more power ? Perhaps Toei just don't give a shit ? We'll never know until the episode itself airs, and I think coming to early conclusions basing off a single image is just ridiculous.

I'm very well aware of the confusing power scaling of Super, mainly due to many things being left unexplained. But people coming to early conclusions (Whether strength-related or not) can be sometimes annoying, especially if people are just basing it off on a single image or a small information like a title or something.

[ShinTenshin]

We know Black Goku will critically beat Trunks, so he is far from Black Goku level. It's like in the past with Gohan rage boost. He was far from frieza or Nappa but during several seconds he can just HURT them a little bit. Even Tien with Shin kikoho can hurt Cell (a little).

If Vegeta succeed to beat Black on his own, Trunks will be far from SSBLUE level. There is no reason for Zamasu to use fusion if one of them isn't in difficulty. We need to wait and see. But it's still great to keep SSBLUE exclusive to the pure saiyajins.

[buutenks]

I absolutely loved Vegeta raging in super and he got the power to be able to fight against Beerus somewhat. So, knowing that the same will happen to Trunks, makes me all warm and fuzzy.

As for ssj blue, i think after so many arcs, ssj blue shouldnt be so impactful. Even in ROF it wasnt that impactful. It;s better than ssj3, but not than ssj2 or 1. Since while ssj blue didnt fail like 3, ssj1 and 2 completely dominated their enemies, in their respective arcs.

[Lord Beerus]

Raging SSJ2 (?) Future Trunks is here, and he's angry.

[Alee9977]

Raging SSJ2 (?) Future Trunks is here, and he's angry.

Following the preview seems he won't be able to do a lot with that.
We should call this Super Rage Trunks with a little of God ki or what?

[Bullza]

New episode gives us a lot more to talk about this week.

Super Saiyan Rose Black seemed to be whooping Goku, Vegeta and Trunks at the same time.

Goku got some some kind of a rage boost perhaps? Or he just got serious? Seemed to put him back on par with Black for a bit.

And then obviously the most interesting thing of all is what the hell was going on with Trunks? What was that? He looked like a SSJ2 but he sort of had a blue aura overlapped into it. Was it just a huge rage boost or was something to do with God form maybe? It looked completely different whatever it was.

Definitely looks like Trunks is going to be stronger than Super Saiyan Blue Goku and Vegeta though now.

[Lord Beerus]

Raging SSJ2 (?) Future Trunks is here, and he's angry.

Following the preview seems he won't be able to do a lot with that.
We should call this Super Rage Trunks with a little of God ki or what?

I don't think he has any God ki in him. I just think he's become absurdly strong.

[Alee9977]

New episode gives us a lot more to talk about this week.

Super Saiyan Rose Black seemed to be whooping Goku, Vegeta and Trunks at the same time.

Goku got some some kind of a rage boost perhaps? Or he just got serious? Seemed to put him back on par with Black for a bit.

And then obviously the most interesting thing of all is what the hell was going on with Trunks? What was that? He looked like a SSJ2 but he sort of had a blue aura overlapped into it. Was it just a huge rage boost or was something to do with God form maybe? It looked completely different whatever it was.

Definitely looks like Trunks is going to be stronger than Super Saiyan Blue Goku and Vegeta though now.

After Zamasu and Black told Goku what happened to Chichi and Goten, he went furious, so he did have a rage boost, and thanks to that Black got a power boost again.

I don't think he is going to be stronger than SSB, he will be for a moment but just for the rage, that transformation looks like a Fake SSB, just like what happened with Goku against Slug.

[Bullza]

Yeah I just saw Herms comment. Perhaps Goku's rage boost allowed him to surpass Black but then the pummeling he gave him which made him even stronger meant that Black surpassed him back.

It's all kinda odd because people Vegeta, Trunks and Goku have all had these rage boosts in Super and that wasn't much of a thing in Z except for Gohan. Same with the explanation that Black gets stronger from being hurt makes him stronger and it's got something to do with him being a saiyan but it doesn't work like that for everyone else.

As for Trunks, if he's going to hold both Black and Zamasu off for an entire episode then I'd say it's safe to say he'll be stronger than Goku, the rage boosted Goku even. Though yeah it could be temporary.

[Krillin1994]

Trunks has blue aura in the middle though.

Kind of like how Goku and Vegeta had to learn to not have their god Ki leak out to become blue, I feel this is a leaky SSB.

[Lord Frieza]

Pseudo Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan? Pseudo Super Saiyan Blue? Pseudo Blue? Take your pick.

But really could people stop comparing this form to Broly. This was Trunks's look long before that angry, green jackass stole it.

[Alee9977]

I think it can't be a Super Saiyan God, I mean, Trunks got that form because of anger, and nobody achieved SSG or SSB by getting angry.
It could be a little of God ki thanks to the training with Vegeta or because he has been fighting with a god for more than a year..

[ZombieVito]

That looks like Super Saiyan with god ki leaking and judging by the preview Trunks holds his own against Black quite well but losses the form and gets beat.

I can't believe he actually surpassed Goku. A raged boosted Super Saiyan Blue Goku.

Insane.

[Bullza]

We saw in the episode Zamasu used the Dragon Balls to switch bodies with a Goku from another timeline. It obviously wasn't in the far future because Goten was still a kid.

So why was Base Black so strong? Had Goku become a Saiyan Beyond God in this timeline? If he hadn't then he should be much weaker than Zamasu so there'd be no point in him switching bodies.

If we just assume that Zamasu did switch bodies with Saiyan Beyond Goku then Base Black when he first showed up should have been just as strong as Base Goku and he kicked Super Saiyan Trunks' ass. It'd mean that in that one year Trunks grew strong enough to be on par with Super Saiyan 2 Goku.

Perhaps the two of them fought several times during that one year and that's why they both had such big gains?

It's all very confusing but it should be something like this. From strongest to weakest.

Base Black (After being pummeled by SSJB Vegeta)

Base Black (After fighting Goku in the present)

Base Black (Before fighting Goku in the present)

Super Saiyan 2 Trunks (Sparring with Goku)

Base Goku = Base Black (When Zamasu switched with him and he first showed up on Earth)

Super Saiyan Trunks (When Black first showed up)

[Xeztin]

In the manga Trunks' Super Saiyan 2's multiplier is on par with Goku's Super Saiyan 3, I don't believe there was anything ever said about that in the anime. Perhaps this is what Trunk's Super Saiyan 2 on par with SSJ3 looks like in the anime while in the manga it's just normal SSJ2? I don't think we'll see this in the manga because I get the feeling Toyotaro doesn't like doing double auras. (SSJB KaioKen and now Trunks) I think Toyotaro will come up with his own transformation for Trunks or he'll use SSG/SSB because I think this Trunks form is a Toei thing. While him facing off against Black and Zamasu may be Toriyama, this form with the double aura feels like its just to sell more figures. I think we'll get a new transformation every arc!

[HeroR]

We saw in the episode Zamasu used the Dragon Balls to switch bodies with a Goku from another timeline. It obviously wasn't in the far future because Goten was still a kid.

So why was Base Black so strong? Had Goku become a Saiyan Beyond God in this timeline? If he hadn't then he should be much weaker than Zamasu so there'd be no point in him switching bodies.

If we just assume that Zamasu did switch bodies with Saiyan Beyond Goku then Base Black when he first showed up should have been just as strong as Base Goku and he kicked Super Saiyan Trunks' ass. It'd mean that in that one year Trunks grew strong enough to be on par with Super Saiyan 2 Goku.

Perhaps the two of them fought several times during that one year and that's why they both had such big gains?

It's all very confusing but it should be something like this. From strongest to weakest.

Base Black (After being pummeled by SSJB Vegeta)

Base Black (After fighting Goku in the present)

Base Black (Before fighting Goku in the present)

Super Saiyan 2 Trunks (Sparring with Goku)

Base Goku = Base Black (When Zamasu switched with him and he first showed up on Earth)

Super Saiyan Trunks (When Black first showed up)

In Herm's summery, he said that Zamasu became obsessed with Goku after losing to him. How and when this happened is the the iffy part.