Unpopular DB opinions

[Kanassa]

Yeah, Z always felt rather lackluster on the villain side for the most part on my end; started off well with Vegeta, but then Frieza and Cell felt like bland versions of Vegeta with a personality gimmick thrown on. Buu started off very well, but soon he simply reverts to being Cell 2.0 in personality, then to Kid Buu. It wan't until Super that I actually thought fondly of Frieza as a character.

[ABED]

How is Freeza bland or a copy of Vegeta? And what is a personality gimmick?

[Omniboy]

My statement may have come off as harsher than I intended.

It's fine. And to be honest I understand why many fans today disregard many of the changes Toriyama has made, especially the whole "Beerus told Freeza to destroy Planet Vegeta" thing.

[ABED]

My statement may have come off as harsher than I intended.

It's fine. And to be honest I understand why many fans today disregard many of the changes Toriyama has made, especially the whole "Beerus told Freeza to destroy Planet Vegeta" thing.

I haven't seen Super, but it's easier to disregard the Buu retcon because I haven't seen anything about it in the story. The Beerus retcon is in a movie.

[MR.Mark]

Freeza has no development? He considers himself a refined gentleman, but underneath is a psychotic sadist who in spite of being FAR stronger than just about everyone still has a fear of being overthrown.

What do you consider development?

Freeza has a great personality, but he had no real development until Super.

Personality and character development are two different things. Toriyama is certainly great at making villains that serve as plot devices memorable though, I don't deny that.

Tao was a big bad in a sense that he was a legitimate threat and defeated Goku initially, who he then surpassed, killed, and moved on.

Raditz only served to introduce the Saiyan race, they killed him and moved on, but he filled his purpose well. Then Vegeta and Nappa show up, Nappa was a big bad to stop. Then Vegeta served his purpose of "omg this little guy is WAY stronger?

As much as I love the Ginyu, they are probably some of the biggest "we exists to be killed one by one" in the entire series.

Yeah, Z always felt rather lackluster on the villain side for the most part on my end; started off well with Vegeta, but then Frieza and Cell felt like bland versions of Vegeta with a personality gimmick thrown on. Buu started off very well, but soon he simply reverts to being Cell 2.0 in personality, then to Kid Buu. It wan't until Super that I actually thought fondly of Frieza as a character.

I like the villains of DB, but Toriyama does repeat himself a lot with the formula of a big bad being cocky, gets his ass kicked, then goes ape shit.

I think that's a big reason a lot of people like the anime version of Goku Black, he was able to remain calm and collected. Another reason Zamasu as a whole was refreshing

[Freeza9000]

I think that's a big reason a lot of people like the anime version of Goku Black, he was able to remain calm and collected. Another reason Zamasu as a whole was refreshing

Well I would say that sole trait applies more to Goku Black than Zamasu.

[MR.Mark]

I think that's a big reason a lot of people like the anime version of Goku Black, he was able to remain calm and collected. Another reason Zamasu as a whole was refreshing

Well I would say that sole trait applies more to Goku Black than Zamasu.

Makes no difference since there both Zamasu.

[Freeza9000]

I think that's a big reason a lot of people like the anime version of Goku Black, he was able to remain calm and collected. Another reason Zamasu as a whole was refreshing

Well I would say that sole trait applies more to Goku Black than Zamasu.

Makes no difference since there both Zamasu.

Zamasu, especially when his fused self, was more prone to emotional outbursts and desperate screaming when faced with a predicament of a mortal rivaling his godly might.

[MR.Mark]

So what? We got to experience different Zamasus from different timelines, with varying emotional states. That's variety in my book.

[Soppa Saia People]

All of Z sucks besides the Saiyan saga.

[ABED]

Freeza has a great personality, but he had no real development until Super.

Personality and character development are two different things. Toriyama is certainly great at making villains that serve as plot devices memorable though, I don't deny that.

Tao was a big bad in a sense that he was a legitimate threat and defeated Goku initially, who he then surpassed, killed, and moved on.

Raditz only served to introduce the Saiyan race, they killed him and moved on, but he filled his purpose well. Then Vegeta and Nappa show up, Nappa was a big bad to stop. Then Vegeta served his purpose of "omg this little guy is WAY stronger?

As much as I love the Ginyu, they are probably some of the biggest "we exists to be killed one by one" in the entire series.

But they aren't mere plot devices. Freeza is a fantastic character. He doesn't have to grow and change in order to be interesting. Development is as dependent on execution as anything else. I'll take a well executed 2-dimensional character over one that changes in uninteresting and inorganic ways.

Character development and characterization are often lumped together, so I wasn't sure exactly what you meant by lack of development.

A big bad isn't merely a threat, they are the end boss.

I'm unsure of what you are looking for in a good villain.

[SupremeKai25]

Yeah, Z always felt rather lackluster on the villain side for the most part on my end; started off well with Vegeta, but then Frieza and Cell felt like bland versions of Vegeta with a personality gimmick thrown on. Buu started off very well, but soon he simply reverts to being Cell 2.0 in personality, then to Kid Buu. It wan't until Super that I actually thought fondly of Frieza as a character.

I like the villains of DB, but Toriyama does repeat himself a lot with the formula of a big bad being cocky, gets his ass kicked, then goes ape shit.

I think that's a big reason a lot of people like the anime version of Goku Black, he was able to remain calm and collected. Another reason Zamasu as a whole was refreshing

That is one of the reasons why Goku Black is so popular amongst the fans, particularily his Anime version, since Manga Black often lost his godly composure.

I think the main reason why Zamasu is so popular amongst fans despite the fact he is a relatively recent character in the franchise is because he views himself as a good character. He believes his actions are driven towards the well-being of the Universe. He desires to safeguard the beauty of the Universe and, in his twisted mind, eradicating mortals is the first step to creating his utopian world and i can get behind his radical mindset that mortals are just a flaw, a mistake of the Gods that needs to be removed forcefully. His sense of justice and righteousness was so strong that he ultimately fused with the body of Son Goku, a mortal, because he wanted to take into his body the failures of Gods (who created mortals able to surpass them) and the insolence of the mortals (who would reach the levels of the Gods).

On the other hand, Frieza, Cell and Buu do have entertaining personalities, i won't deny it (Frieza is a cunning manipulator, for example), but their goals are very shallow and unoriginal. Frieza wants to rule over the Universe using force and might, Cell wants to attain perfection and face stronger opponents, Buu wants to destroy all. Zamasu has a convincing and compelling motive that drives him forward; the strong sense of justice, the desire to purge evil from the Universe (which he sees in mortals) and his wish of building a beautiful and peaceful world for the Gods. While Frieza, Cell and Buu see themselves as evil and don't care at all, Zamasu sees himself as a good guy, as the only defender of the Universe. This is why for many (me included) Zamasu is such a beloved character

Again, i'm not looking down on the classic villains of Dragon Ball Z, i think they are just a different type of villain from Zamasu. Zamasu is one-of-a-kind. The archetype of the 'angelic being who was corrupted and twisted by his sense of justice' has never been seen before in the franchise, as far as i recall, so Zamasu was effectively a 'refreshing' villain. This, however, doesn't mean that Frieza, Cell and Buu are bad villains just because they are a more 'classic' type of villain.

In addition, his personality was fantastic. Fused Zamasu, the fusion between Goku Black and Future Zamasu, retained Future Zamasu's immortality (so he was not particularily afraid to get hit by enemies) and Black's sadistic personality (for example, when he damaged his body with the Light of Justice to reach even greater power). Plus, as others mentioned, Goku Black kept his calm and composure in front of threats and obstacles to his goal. He was calculating, cold-hearted, patient and wise. When he was setback by Vegeta, he tried to understand what went wrong in the fight and realized the key to improving was gaining strength from anger (a rude method only primitive mortals could come up with, so he had verlooked it). At that point, his power transcended time and space and had grown beyond his own comprehension.

[Hyena_Yamcha]

All of Z sucks besides the Saiyan saga.

+ frieza saga

[PsionicWarrior]

All of Z sucks besides the Saiyan saga.

+ frieza saga

+ Cell and Buu sagas cheers lol

[Ki Breaker]

All of Z sucks besides the Saiyan saga.

+ frieza saga

+ Cell and Buu sagas cheers lol

+ The filler
There ya go

[ABED]

On the other hand, Frieza, Cell and Buu do have entertaining personalities, i won't deny it (Frieza is a cunning manipulator, for example), but their goals are very shallow and unoriginal. Frieza wants to rule over the Universe using force and might, Cell wants to attain perfection and face stronger opponents, Buu wants to destroy all. Zamasu has a convincing and compelling motive that drives him forward; the strong sense of justice, the desire to purge evil from the Universe (which he sees in mortals) and his wish of building a beautiful and peaceful world for the Gods. While Frieza, Cell and Buu see themselves as evil

Freeza and Cell don't view themselves as evil. As far as I remember, they don't think in those terms.

While your points are well taken, it's all dependent on execution. I've seen plenty of characters that are supposed to be 3 dimensional because they see themselves as the hero of their own story, but the writing is bush league so it comes off as half assed. Then there are characters like Freeza and Hans Gruber who are very simple in their motivations yet are classic characters.

[Hyena_Yamcha]

+ frieza saga

+ Cell and Buu sagas cheers lol

+ The filler
There ya go

nah seriously how can you hate frieza saga

[PsionicWarrior]

+ frieza saga

+ Cell and Buu sagas cheers lol

+ The filler
There ya go

Was actually waiting for that one high give mate cheers lol

[Soppa Saia People]

+ frieza saga

+ Cell and Buu sagas cheers lol

+ The filler
There ya go

The only one of these that are decent is Boo.

[MR.Mark]

Yeah, Z always felt rather lackluster on the villain side for the most part on my end; started off well with Vegeta, but then Frieza and Cell felt like bland versions of Vegeta with a personality gimmick thrown on. Buu started off very well, but soon he simply reverts to being Cell 2.0 in personality, then to Kid Buu. It wan't until Super that I actually thought fondly of Frieza as a character.

I like the villains of DB, but Toriyama does repeat himself a lot with the formula of a big bad being cocky, gets his ass kicked, then goes ape shit.

I think that's a big reason a lot of people like the anime version of Goku Black, he was able to remain calm and collected. Another reason Zamasu as a whole was refreshing

That is one of the reasons why Goku Black is so popular amongst the fans, particularily his Anime version, since Manga Black often lost his godly composure.

I think the main reason why Zamasu is so popular amongst fans despite the fact he is a relatively recent character in the franchise is because he views himself as a good character. He believes his actions are driven towards the well-being of the Universe. He desires to safeguard the beauty of the Universe and, in his twisted mind, eradicating mortals is the first step to creating his utopian world and i can get behind his radical mindset that mortals are just a flaw, a mistake of the Gods that needs to be removed forcefully. His sense of justice and righteousness was so strong that he ultimately fused with the body of Son Goku, a mortal, because he wanted to take into his body the failures of Gods (who created mortals able to surpass them) and the insolence of the mortals (who would reach the levels of the Gods).

On the other hand, Frieza, Cell and Buu do have entertaining personalities, i won't deny it (Frieza is a cunning manipulator, for example), but their goals are very shallow and unoriginal. Frieza wants to rule over the Universe using force and might, Cell wants to attain perfection and face stronger opponents, Buu wants to destroy all. Zamasu has a convincing and compelling motive that drives him forward; the strong sense of justice, the desire to purge evil from the Universe (which he sees in mortals) and his wish of building a beautiful and peaceful world for the Gods. While Frieza, Cell and Buu see themselves as evil and don't care at all, Zamasu sees himself as a good guy, as the only defender of the Universe. This is why for many (me included) Zamasu is such a beloved character

Again, i'm not looking down on the classic villains of Dragon Ball Z, i think they are just a different type of villain from Zamasu. Zamasu is one-of-a-kind. The archetype of the 'angelic being who was corrupted and twisted by his sense of justice' has never been seen before in the franchise, as far as i recall, so Zamasu was effectively a 'refreshing' villain. This, however, doesn't mean that Frieza, Cell and Buu are bad villains just because they are a more 'classic' type of villain.

In addition, his personality was fantastic. Fused Zamasu, the fusion between Goku Black and Future Zamasu, retained Future Zamasu's immortality (so he was not particularily afraid to get hit by enemies) and Black's sadistic personality (for example, when he damaged his body with the Light of Justice to reach even greater power). Plus, as others mentioned, Goku Black kept his calm and composure in front of threats and obstacles to his goal. He was calculating, cold-hearted, patient and wise. When he was setback by Vegeta, he tried to understand what went wrong in the fight and realized the key to improving was gaining strength from anger (a rude method only primitive mortals could come up with, so he had verlooked it). At that point, his power transcended time and space and had grown beyond his own comprehension.

Agreed, Freeza is still my fav, but he is another evil for the sake of it type. Toriyama is just really good at making baddies memorable even though they all mostly serve as plot devices.

Back to Freeza again, I'd love if Toriyama finally revealed just alittle about him and his father's background, even if just in an interview. As fans we superficially love Freeza for his genius design and what not, but alittle development for the franchises greatest villain is welcomed by me.