Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[Zamasu55]

Vegeta will be training for a year in the RoSaT... so he should be stronger than before.

[TheMikado]

I'd also like to mention that, despite the "two base theory" being a widely scorned notion here, the anime has partly confirmed it:

In Episode 22, base Vegeta specifically notes that he feels stronger after having obtained God ki ("Is this God ki? The pressure feels immense!") and he was only able to convert his own ki into God ki when "not letting the ki leak after having raised it". This is also mentioned in Episode 20, when Whis informs Goku and Vegeta that if they do that then no one would be able to sense their ki.

But even as recently as the current arc, Trunks mentions on multiple occasions that he can sense Goku's ki and Vegeta's ki during instances when they're not using Super Saiyan Blue. Trunks also notes that he can't sense Vegeta when he's using the Blue form. Black even calls them the "warriors garbed in God ki" only after they transform into SSB, and there are plenty of other moments before the current arc where characters mention that they can sense base Goku and Vegeta.

So the anime itself directly presents us with scenes where we can clearly see base Goku/Vegeta with God ki (Episode 22) and also base Goku/Vegeta without God ki even long after they've already learned how to obtain it. But we already know from Episode 22 that God ki is more powerful than regular ki, which means that their base forms would be stronger when using God ki even though it would seem that they rarely use it without transforming.

The two base theory is absolutely correct.

Not in the anime

[Hugo Boss]

Vegeta will be training for a year in the RoSaT... so he should be stronger than before.

Half a year to be more precise. But he seems quite motivated this time. He may surpass Goku and Trunks.

[Lord Beerus]

Vegeta will be training for a year in the RoSaT... so he should be stronger than before.

I doubt it. Vegeta has already trained in ROSAT three times. And the last time he went in there, IIRC, Vegeta commented on how he and Goku didn't feel that much stronger. I think Vegeta, at this point, has maxed out the amount of strength he can gain from training in the ROSAT.

[namekiansaiyan]

Vegeta will be training for a year in the RoSaT... so he should be stronger than before.

I doubt it. Vegeta has already trained in ROSAT three times. And the last time he went in there, IIRC, Vegeta commented on how he and Goku didn't feel that much stronger. I think Vegeta, at this point, has maxed out the amount of strength he can gain from training in the ROSAT.

Exactly, so we should expect to see Vegeta get another beatdown next episode.

[Bullza]

Not in the anime

Not in anything I think. The closest there is to a two base theory is Goku being able to transform into Saiyan Beyond God Goku in Dragon Ball Heroes but that's kinda like how Piccolo can transform into Nail or Kami infused states.

[HeroR]

Chances are Trunks' new form is just something Toei came up with and we'll never see or hear from it again after this saga is over like the SSJB Kaioken. It'll become a video game thing.

I do wonder what they're going to do with Trunks in the manga though. Is he not going to fight Black at all? Is he just going to fight Zamasu whose just Supreme Kai+ level? Is he gonna get angry and become a Super Saiyan 3 that'll make him on par with Super Saiyan Blue? Will he just become a Super Saiyan Blue?

Surely it'll be very different from the anime.

We have seen and heard about the Kaio-Ken. Namely, why Goku can't just use it any time he wants.

[ekrolo2]

Chances are Trunks' new form is just something Toei came up with and we'll never see or hear from it again after this saga is over like the SSJB Kaioken. It'll become a video game thing.

I do wonder what they're going to do with Trunks in the manga though. Is he not going to fight Black at all? Is he just going to fight Zamasu whose just Supreme Kai+ level? Is he gonna get angry and become a Super Saiyan 3 that'll make him on par with Super Saiyan Blue? Will he just become a Super Saiyan Blue?

Surely it'll be very different from the anime.

We have seen and heard about the Kaio-Ken. Namely, why Goku can't just use it any time he wants.

Considering the fact no one has brought it up at all in this arc and that Toyotaro axed it completely without getting a peep out of Toriyama, it IS a Toei only thing. If Toriyama wrote into the script "Goku combines KK with Blue!" Toyotaro would have needed to add into the manga. Instead, it's far more likely he just said that Goku is somehow 10 times stronger than Vegeta and let the people adapting his scripts go about it in their own way.

[Zamasu55]

Vegeta will be training for a year in the RoSaT... so he should be stronger than before.

I doubt it. Vegeta has already trained in ROSAT three times. And the last time he went in there, IIRC, Vegeta commented on how he and Goku didn't feel that much stronger. I think Vegeta, at this point, has maxed out the amount of strength he can gain from training in the ROSAT.

Exactly, so we should expect to see Vegeta get another beatdown next episode.

Well he's taking on Black pretty well in the preview.

[Zamasu55]

I'd also like to mention that, despite the "two base theory" being a widely scorned notion here, the anime has partly confirmed it:

In Episode 22, base Vegeta specifically notes that he feels stronger after having obtained God ki ("Is this God ki? The pressure feels immense!") and he was only able to convert his own ki into God ki when "not letting the ki leak after having raised it". This is also mentioned in Episode 20, when Whis informs Goku and Vegeta that if they do that then no one would be able to sense their ki.

But even as recently as the current arc, Trunks mentions on multiple occasions that he can sense Goku's ki and Vegeta's ki during instances when they're not using Super Saiyan Blue. Trunks also notes that he can't sense Vegeta when he's using the Blue form. Black even calls them the "warriors garbed in God ki" only after they transform into SSB, and there are plenty of other moments before the current arc where characters mention that they can sense base Goku and Vegeta.

So the anime itself directly presents us with scenes where we can clearly see base Goku/Vegeta with God ki (Episode 22) and also base Goku/Vegeta without God ki even long after they've already learned how to obtain it. But we already know from Episode 22 that God ki is more powerful than regular ki, which means that their base forms would be stronger when using God ki even though it would seem that they rarely use it without transforming.

The two base theory is absolutely correct.

Not in the anime

Especially in the anime.

[namekiansaiyan]

I doubt it. Vegeta has already trained in ROSAT three times. And the last time he went in there, IIRC, Vegeta commented on how he and Goku didn't feel that much stronger. I think Vegeta, at this point, has maxed out the amount of strength he can gain from training in the ROSAT.

Exactly, so we should expect to see Vegeta get another beatdown next episode.

Well he's taking on Black pretty well in the preview.

If everything is to make sense then Vegeta should get beat up.

[buutenks]

If everything is to make sense then Vegeta should get beat up.

Why should he get beat up? We will see next ep. But considering Zamasu and Black Goku are going to fuse in ep 64, i somehow doubt Vegeta will get beat up.

Although, this episode confirms that Future Zamasu is ssj blue level.

[Noah]

Vegeta will be training for a year in the RoSaT... so he should be stronger than before.

I doubt it. Vegeta has already trained in ROSAT three times. And the last time he went in there, IIRC, Vegeta commented on how he and Goku didn't feel that much stronger. I think Vegeta, at this point, has maxed out the amount of strength he can gain from training in the ROSAT.

Exactly. I hope this not happens, we had enough of RoSaT for god's sake

[zamasu121]

vegeta is much more motivated now especially now that bulma pissed him off by basically saying he is a jobber and goku will be the one to take black and zamasu down.
you could see vegeta was about to snap

[Noah]

So is emotion overcoming hard work in this series?

[zamasu121]

So is emotion overcoming hard work in this series?

it was clearly there to show how much more motivated he is now to train harder than ever i mean thats what this arc has been building up to

[Lord Beerus]

So is emotion overcoming hard work in this series?

That's been a recurring theme ever since Gohan was introduced.

[ekrolo2]

So is emotion overcoming hard work in this series?

That's been a recurring theme ever since Gohan was introduced.

And its never paid off. All emotional outbursts do is give temporary boosts that look impressive in the moment but ultimately mean nothing. Gohan is a fantastic example of how worthless they are. What did his two-three rage outs against Freeza accomplish besides jack and shit with jack leaving town afterward.

[TheUltimateNinja]

By the way, those 3 years Goku and Vegeta spent in the RoSAT? Probably one of the worst plot points in the series. As we have seen several times earlier in the series, characters become exponentially stronger when they train and spar with a partner, especially if they're rivals and on the same level. This effect is increased even further in the RoSAT as in just 1 single year they were able to improve more than they did in the 3 years until the android attack. Goku and Vegeta should have multiplied their strength severalfold in the time they spent in there, and honestly I think that scene was a total waste, they should have instead said they trained to their limit every day until the tournament under normal circumstances rather than in the chamber.

[Bullza]

It was utterly pointless especially as they didn't make a big deal of their strenght increasing because it wasn't really supposed to increase much.

Now Vegeta is gonna get a good chunk stronger by training in there alone for 6 months?