Color Correcting the Dragon Box - 3 Part Spectacular

[Bruma rabu]

for references you just need to collect images from dragon ball, z, gt, watch which ones are the best scanned and watch them, that way you'll see which ones are right colors, you can also help you with cels etc...
you'll have some difficulty like i have with some colors but it's not so hard to do it.
the main things is : keep in mind you'll spend several hours learning how to use software by playing with it (it's better than just copy how someone use it),
keep redoing it often untilyou will be ok with the result.

about you wanted to make a dbz with dbkai color it's not a color correction work as color correcting is make colors like it was supposed to be, but make dbz looking like kai would be the same as make db super looking like z it can't be called "color correction" as that's the intended colors even if we dissagree with them

This would be different from scene to scene no? Or is this like how it said before where you could do them in parts as in op/recap/part a/eyecatch/part b/ed/next ep preview. I am interested in doing this but would it even be feasible along with cutting up and syncing it with kai audio?

[HakkaiBills93]

for references you just need to collect images from dragon ball, z, gt, watch which ones are the best scanned and watch them, that way you'll see which ones are right colors, you can also help you with cels etc...
you'll have some difficulty like i have with some colors but it's not so hard to do it.
the main things is : keep in mind you'll spend several hours learning how to use software by playing with it (it's better than just copy how someone use it),
keep redoing it often untilyou will be ok with the result.

about you wanted to make a dbz with dbkai color it's not a color correction work as color correcting is make colors like it was supposed to be, but make dbz looking like kai would be the same as make db super looking like z it can't be called "color correction" as that's the intended colors even if we dissagree with them

This would be different from scene to scene no? Or is this like how it said before where you could do them in parts as in op/recap/part a/eyecatch/part b/ed/next ep preview. I am interested in doing this but would it even be feasible along with cutting up and syncing it with kai audio?

your episode need to be cut in 8 part:
opening
part a (recap use the same colors as the part a)
eyecatch a
eyecatch b
part b
preview
ending
after that for example in after effect you need to do:
for each part you need to do a white balance (that is d
ifferrent from one part to another) but sometimes it is more as there is sometimes differrence in the same part of the episode or when there is flashback you need to apply differrent white balance so you need to check if your white balance work for the whole part
AND solve all issues about black and white scenes (sometimes the black is too much crushed and the same with the white)
- create a color correction for the remaining colors alterations : all series along it will be mostly the same change even if some colors change at some point until the end , so you'll have to do this but need to keep an eye as it can sometimes need more change

it will take lot of time, and for using kai audio i don't know maybe some part don't have the same speed than in z and i don't see utility to use kai audio with z footage

[Bruma rabu]

it will take lot of time, and for using kai audio i don't know maybe some part don't have the same speed than in z and i don't see utility to use kai audio with z footage

I dislike the redrawn scenes in Kai 1.0 and really dislike the green tint along with 16:9 aspect ratio of Kai the final chapters. I like the pace but mainly the new dub used for kai, witch is why I'm combining the two. My video examples with audio are already cut to match kais audio. But matching Dragon box footage with kai audio is and isn't the issue. It isnt because its pretty easy to do but it also is an issue because while being easy it does take some time.

On another note, don't you really only need 3 parts (part a, part b, and previews). The op, ed, eyecatch, and ending are almost always the same, so shouldn't you only do these once and use them for the rest of the episodes until they change?

[HakkaiBills93]

it will take lot of time, and for using kai audio i don't know maybe some part don't have the same speed than in z and i don't see utility to use kai audio with z footage

I dislike the redrawn scenes in Kai 1.0 and really dislike the green tint along with 16:9 aspect ratio of Kai the final chapters. I like the pace but mainly the new dub used for kai, witch is why I'm combining the two. My video examples with audio are already cut to match kais audio. But matching Dragon box footage with kai audio is and isn't the issue. It isnt because its pretty easy to do but it also is an issue because while being easy it does take some time.

On another note, don't you really only need 3 parts (part a, part b, and previews). The op, ed, eyecatch, and ending are almost always the same, so shouldn't you only do these once and use them for the rest of the episodes until they change?

the color cast is differrent on each episodes for eyecatch and ending , for opening i think they use the same film for lot of episodes and not the real ones for each episodes (for example the color cast on part a, part b, eyecatch, preview and ending are often the same colors even if differrent degree but for opening it's differrent, it seems for example that for db 1-28 it's exactly the same color cast for opening then it change for lot of episodes

it's a wrong idea thinking this way, each episodes opening, ending etc, are on differrent film so even if they have the same content it doesn't mean that the color cast is the same ,removing the color cast alter somes color so you need to correct all openings, ending etc like if they were differrent even if for opening some seems to be a re-use of the same

[Bruma rabu]

the color cast is differrent on each episodes for eyecatch and ending , for opening i think they use the same film for lot of episodes and not the real ones for each episodes (for example the color cast on part a, part b, eyecatch, preview and ending are often the same colors even if differrent degree but for opening it's differrent, it seems for example that for db 1-28 it's exactly the same color cast for opening then it change for lot of episodes

it's a wrong idea thinking this way, each episodes opening, ending etc, are on differrent film so even if they have the same content it doesn't mean that the color cast is the same ,removing the color cast alter somes color so you need to correct all openings, ending etc like if they were differrent even if for opening some seems to be a re-use of the same

I mean, you can cut and separate the op, eyecatch and ending. You really only need to do it once and save that particular part as its own. Like only cut out the opening, cc it, and save it as its own video and combine it with other episodes then do the same for eyecatch and ending. Essentially doing the same thing they did(as in using the same film for multiple episodes) but with accurate colors.

[HakkaiBills93]

it's better for the audio sync as each eyecatch or ending can have differrent frames count , and for people like me that love to have the true episode cast, it's better to keep them and anyway it's not a real trouble

[Bruma rabu]

it's better for the audio sync as each eyecatch or ending can have differrent frames count , and for people like me that love to have the true episode cast, it's better to keep them and anyway it's not a real trouble

Hmm well you could just put it's original audio back in and keep it as its own thing but I guess if your ok with it then it's no big deal. Aside from that how would you get sky and foliage reference? I manage to find a good amount of cels but it's mainly just the characters and nothing else.

[HakkaiBills93]

i am not the best for that as i just allways work on it and i don't have make any final encode

[lansing]

That's an understatement lol. That's kinda why I'm looking for something more consistent than 100% accurate. I'm trying that make a kai cut out the dboxes. I seem to have gotten cutting up and syncing it to kai audio down but colors, brightness, and contrast is where to problems come in. I think I might stick with the color of kai 1.0 but it gets tricky with the final chapters.

Well that's the point of depending of other releases that ahave more or less decent colors . You will not have a complete or a consistent overall color correction , which is not actually a color correction but more like a color match. So it is your call, your choice. I for one I decided to not be limited by other releases , you will have to experiment more and try different ways beside Dr Dre's Tool for this big of a project, use your eyes, your time and your patience and you will not feel stucked when you will be out of releases to use an example, especially that you will need to work scene by scene . If you dream of actually having all dragon ball series done, color matching tools or scripts are not for you . If you want to have some fun and so on episodes or sagas that have somewhat decent color approach on the series...then color match is for you.

What? That is completely the opposite! How long have we been trying to color correct this anime since kai came out? 6 years? Have we not try enough ways? And how many progress have we make? Nothing! Absolutely nothing! People have been posting amateur attempts every so often and none of them is able to explain to people why their cc is accurate. You know just by looking that they're going nowhere.

And there're people coming up with unrealistic ideas such as getting all the cel they can find on the internet and create a palette, I mean come on, how are you even going to calibrate all of them? An image of a cel taken by a camera with low light is going to look different from the same one taken with high light, and it will also look different if it was scanned from a scanner. How on earth are you going to calibrate different image of cels that were taken by different cameras?

Dr. Dre's tool is the real deal if you're to get something done, it's should be the core of the project, the core to be build around.

[Bruma rabu]

What? That is completely the opposite! How long have we been trying to color correct this anime since kai came out? 6 years? Have we not try enough ways? And how many progress have we make? Nothing! Absolutely nothing! People have been posting amateur attempts every so often and none of them is able to explain to people why their cc is accurate. You know just by looking that they're going nowhere.

And there're people coming up with unrealistic ideas such as getting all the cel they can find on the internet and create a palette, I mean come on, how are you even going to calibrate all of them? An image of a cel taken by a camera with low light is going to look different from the same one taken with high light, and it will also look different if it was scanned from a scanner. How on earth are you going to calibrate different image of cels that were taken by different cameras?

Dr. Dre's tool is the real deal if you're to get something done, it's should be the core of the project, the core to be build around.

I agree, while commercial releases might not be accurate to what the show original look they at the very least have a semi-consistent color pallet. As some of you pointed out they didn't even use a consistent color for Bulmas hair. I've looked through cels but many don't have backgrounds and are shoot in unfavorable conditions. I think kais 1.0 color pallet is the best its going to get.

[ionutbigiu1]

That's an understatement lol. That's kinda why I'm looking for something more consistent than 100% accurate. I'm trying that make a kai cut out the dboxes. I seem to have gotten cutting up and syncing it to kai audio down but colors, brightness, and contrast is where to problems come in. I think I might stick with the color of kai 1.0 but it gets tricky with the final chapters.

Well that's the point of depending of other releases that ahave more or less decent colors . You will not have a complete or a consistent overall color correction , which is not actually a color correction but more like a color match. So it is your call, your choice. I for one I decided to not be limited by other releases , you will have to experiment more and try different ways beside Dr Dre's Tool for this big of a project, use your eyes, your time and your patience and you will not feel stucked when you will be out of releases to use an example, especially that you will need to work scene by scene . If you dream of actually having all dragon ball series done, color matching tools or scripts are not for you . If you want to have some fun and so on episodes or sagas that have somewhat decent color approach on the series...then color match is for you.

What? That is completely the opposite! How long have we been trying to color correct this anime since kai came out? 6 years? Have we not try enough ways? And how many progress have we make? Nothing! Absolutely nothing! People have been posting amateur attempts every so often and none of them is able to explain to people why their cc is accurate. You know just by looking that they're going nowhere.

And there're people coming up with unrealistic ideas such as getting all the cel they can find on the internet and create a palette, I mean come on, how are you even going to calibrate all of them? An image of a cel taken by a camera with low light is going to look different from the same one taken with high light, and it will also look different if it was scanned from a scanner. How on earth are you going to calibrate different image of cels that were taken by different cameras?

Dr. Dre's tool is the real deal if you're to get something done, it's should be the core of the project, the core to be build around.

Well sometimes to get the proper color correciton you only have to do is be patience , experiment a lot, and do your homewoerk when it comes to different sources . But not to copy some silly releases like sesason set or kai set . You can create a pallete , the problem is that poeple have almost zero knowdlege about how a proper CC should look like . But yet again each with their own, as long as anyone is happy with their colorcorrection, all should be happy . But copying kai colors to dragon box or level sets to dragon box or season sets to kai or season sets to dragon box and so on , that thing aint color correction . Also i am aware that color correciton has been attempted in the past , but this is not de wey to fix the entire series.

[HakkaiBills93]

That's an understatement lol. That's kinda why I'm looking for something more consistent than 100% accurate. I'm trying that make a kai cut out the dboxes. I seem to have gotten cutting up and syncing it to kai audio down but colors, brightness, and contrast is where to problems come in. I think I might stick with the color of kai 1.0 but it gets tricky with the final chapters.

Well that's the point of depending of other releases that ahave more or less decent colors . You will not have a complete or a consistent overall color correction , which is not actually a color correction but more like a color match. So it is your call, your choice. I for one I decided to not be limited by other releases , you will have to experiment more and try different ways beside Dr Dre's Tool for this big of a project, use your eyes, your time and your patience and you will not feel stucked when you will be out of releases to use an example, especially that you will need to work scene by scene . If you dream of actually having all dragon ball series done, color matching tools or scripts are not for you . If you want to have some fun and so on episodes or sagas that have somewhat decent color approach on the series...then color match is for you.

What? That is completely the opposite! How long have we been trying to color correct this anime since kai came out? 6 years? Have we not try enough ways? And how many progress have we make? Nothing! Absolutely nothing! People have been posting amateur attempts every so often and none of them is able to explain to people why their cc is accurate. You know just by looking that they're going nowhere.

And there're people coming up with unrealistic ideas such as getting all the cel they can find on the internet and create a palette, I mean come on, how are you even going to calibrate all of them? An image of a cel taken by a camera with low light is going to look different from the same one taken with high light, and it will also look different if it was scanned from a scanner. How on earth are you going to calibrate different image of cels that were taken by different cameras?

Dr. Dre's tool is the real deal if you're to get something done, it's should be the core of the project, the core to be build around.

color match tools would have been fine if you have a true reference to use but for dragon ball you don't have...season sets like all release aren't accurate you allways said our color work is a fail , what make you say that? your power level card? there is a lot which have wrong colors and some have even been released before it was done in anime lot of them are just redrawn and sometimes use totally wrong colors or aren't the same in the anime how can you know which ones are from the cels and which ones are wrong? for example the one with gotenks and buu isn't outside but in kamisama palace in the time room but here it's outside



credits goes to dbcollection.fr for their carddass


some cards can be from cels but lot simply are wrong, the only way to color correcting dragon ball without any 100% accurate material is to watch lot of carddass, images, foreign release (some are really well) and crossing each others, by watching you'll the see right colors for bulma's hair, sky, goku's gi and shirt, piccolo skin and by doing this you'll slowly by slowly create your own color correction palette references it won't 100% be accurate as you can't know the exact amount of each colors there was originally but you'll be close . using season sets like if they are the real accurate reference is a real mistake, overbright and crushed black have hide some tint that have altered colors, and oversaturation isn't good , if you copy season sets color with your match tools you'll get the crushed black, overbrightness, oversaturation and the tint and like dr dre show it in the topics, sometimes you'll also get artifact

[Bruma rabu]

color match tools would have been fine if you have a true reference to use but for dragon ball you don't have...season sets like all release aren't accurate you allways said our color work is a fail , what make you say that? your power level card? there is a lot which have wrong colors and some have even been released before it was done in anime

But that's the thing there's really no true accurate color reference. It's pretty much impossible to get, I really doubt they used the same color paint for Bulmas hair from beginning to end. Really in the end it's all guess work. Kai was color corrected by Q-tec and approved by toei. It can't get anymore official than that. I am not saying you shouldn't try but it's extremely difficult near impossible to truly achieve true color accuracy. In the past year n half I've been on Kanzenshuu I have looked over this particular forum from beginning to end multiple times but I have yet to see anybody do the whole series.

[ionutbigiu1]

color match tools would have been fine if you have a true reference to use but for dragon ball you don't have...season sets like all release aren't accurate you allways said our color work is a fail , what make you say that? your power level card? there is a lot which have wrong colors and some have even been released before it was done in anime

But that's the thing there's really no true accurate color reference. It's pretty much impossible to get, I really doubt they used the same color paint for Bulmas hair from beginning to end. Really in the end it's all guess work. Kai was color corrected by Q-tec and approved by toei. It can't get anymore official than that. I am not saying you shouldn't try but it's extremely difficult near impossible to truly achieve true color accuracy. In the past year n half I've been on Kanzenshuu I have looked over this particular forum from beginning to end multiple times but I have yet to see anybody do the whole series.

Well there is actually somebody who did the whole series . <==

Also the thing with approved by toei makes no sense whatsoever . Toei approved Dragon Box audio instead of Broadcast audio , Toei approved tinted episodes and many specials left outside Dragon Box , so usually when sometimes is approved by Toei doesnt meant it is mean to be sometime amazing and to be taken in consideration or example

[HakkaiBills93]

color match tools would have been fine if you have a true reference to use but for dragon ball you don't have...season sets like all release aren't accurate you allways said our color work is a fail , what make you say that? your power level card? there is a lot which have wrong colors and some have even been released before it was done in anime

But that's the thing there's really no true accurate color reference. It's pretty much impossible to get, I really doubt they used the same color paint for Bulmas hair from beginning to end. Really in the end it's all guess work. Kai was color corrected by Q-tec and approved by toei. It can't get anymore official than that. I am not saying you shouldn't try but it's extremely difficult near impossible to truly achieve true color accuracy. In the past year n half I've been on Kanzenshuu I have looked over this particular forum from beginning to end multiple times but I have yet to see anybody do the whole series.

Well there is actually somebody who did the whole series . <==

Also the thing with approved by toei makes no sense whatsoever . Toei approved Dragon Box audio instead of Broadcast audio , Toei approved tinted episodes and many specials left outside Dragon Box , so usually when sometimes is approved by Toei doesnt meant it is mean to be sometime amazing and to be taken in consideration or example

sadly i have checked and bulma have green in his hair, if you check your green channel in after effect and lower or higher the magenta value for example it will affect her color that's mean there is (even slightly) green in her hair

[ionutbigiu1]

But that's the thing there's really no true accurate color reference. It's pretty much impossible to get, I really doubt they used the same color paint for Bulmas hair from beginning to end. Really in the end it's all guess work. Kai was color corrected by Q-tec and approved by toei. It can't get anymore official than that. I am not saying you shouldn't try but it's extremely difficult near impossible to truly achieve true color accuracy. In the past year n half I've been on Kanzenshuu I have looked over this particular forum from beginning to end multiple times but I have yet to see anybody do the whole series.

Well there is actually somebody who did the whole series . <==

Also the thing with approved by toei makes no sense whatsoever . Toei approved Dragon Box audio instead of Broadcast audio , Toei approved tinted episodes and many specials left outside Dragon Box , so usually when sometimes is approved by Toei doesnt meant it is mean to be sometime amazing and to be taken in consideration or example

sadly i have checked and bulma have green in his hair, if you check your green channel in after effect and lower or higher the magenta value for example it will affect her color that's mean there is (even slightly) green in her hair

There are indeed instances where her hair has slighly green and it occures in differet episodes with different light and enviorment for sure , also yes . Even though cards are such a nice addition to the color correction research you are so right , there are so SO so many cards that have wrong colors and fo few of them are actually to be taken in consideration for sure . This is why maybe he will understand that those release are not the answer but maybe just a small step into comparing a ton of releases and a ton of instances of differnet oclors and video sources .

[Bruma rabu]

Well there is actually somebody who did the whole series . <==

Also the thing with approved by toei makes no sense whatsoever . Toei approved Dragon Box audio instead of Broadcast audio , Toei approved tinted episodes and many specials left outside Dragon Box , so usually when sometimes is approved by Toei doesnt meant it is mean to be sometime amazing and to be taken in consideration or example

Well Itd be nice if they showed us how they did it but they haven't.
As for Toei I'm not saying their word is the end all be all but to say their approval shouldn't be take in to consideration is kinda silly, they are the reason the show even exist. If anything they would be the ones to know how the show should look like best. Its obvious most of these decisions were money and time based.

[Robo4900]

Well there is actually somebody who did the whole series . <==

I've seen loads of screenshots of your CC.

Much as it's rather impressive, the colours are often far too bright, they don't look accurate to any source in particular, and they still don't compare to Kai 1.0.
Sorry man, you made a good effort, but you're far from a professional level.
And anyway, you're so precious about your CC, all anyone's actually seen of it is screenshots.

Anyway...
Accurate colours are an unachievable goal. Any good CCing effort should just go for nice-looking colours. That's why Kai 1.0 looked so nice; they just tried to make the show look nice. They weren't obsessed with accuracy, they just wanted to make the colours look good. And that's all you need.

[ionutbigiu1]

Well there is actually somebody who did the whole series . <==

I've seen loads of screenshots of your CC.

Much as it's rather impressive, the colours are often far too bright, they don't look accurate to any source in particular, and they still don't compare to Kai 1.0.
Sorry man, you made a good effort, but you're far from a professional level.
And anyway, you're so precious about your CC, all anyone's actually seen of it is screenshots.

Anyway...
Accurate colours are an unachievable goal. Any good CCing effort should just go for nice-looking colours. That's why Kai 1.0 looked so nice; they just tried to make the show look nice. They weren't obsessed with accuracy, they just wanted to make the colours look good. And that's all you need.

Oh not to be worried 1 CC of today does not look like the one from tommorow, so to speak you have seen a part of the evolution after i reached some other level i have decided to not make anything public for the sake of perfecting the color correction. Nice colors are not equal to accurate. Kai has nice colors for the simple fact hey killed background details and so much more they had to redrawn so many scenes. It is not that is precious it is in continuous change. It is irrelevant to make anything public as of now. But as I said nice colors and proper take on the series are a little more different.

As always feedback is anytime appreciated. But since you like the colors used in singles sets and whatsoever for the principle of liking because of personal tests and no other research in matter of so many releases. I am not a professional for sure. But trust me on this one.. replicating Kai or any other release for the purpose of having nice colors and inconsistency overall. Well in the end, each with their own. As long as the viewer is happy, nothing else matters.

[lansing]

Well sometimes to get the proper color correciton you only have to do is be patience , experiment a lot, and do your homewoerk when it comes to different sources . But not to copy some silly releases like sesason set or kai set . You can create a pallete , the problem is that poeple have almost zero knowdlege about how a proper CC should look like . But yet again each with their own, as long as anyone is happy with their colorcorrection, all should be happy . But copying kai colors to dragon box or level sets to dragon box or season sets to kai or season sets to dragon box and so on , that thing aint color correction . Also i am aware that color correciton has been attempted in the past , but this is not de wey to fix the entire series.

Who cares about whether or not if it's technically called a "color correction". Color matching is not silly, it's the most realistic approach considering you have a complete full set of reference sitting right in front of you. Color correction out of random uncalibrated source from the internet, on the other hand, is silly.