Dragon Ball Z Being Re-edited and Re-dubbed for HDTV

[Bussani]

And seriously, I freaking don't care if Toei made the Dragonbox and Funi didn't, if this turns out to be cropped selective or not or if any other 'let's change Dragon Ball into something else' bullshit they still should be called out for it. Really are some of you guys being that bias to down Funi's version yet praise Toei even though it looks like they're doing the same thing?

The only 'praise' the crop has been given is that it's selective. I doubt anyone actually likes the idea of cropping. Maybe they just did it because anime for HDTV is usually in this aspect ratio and they wanted it to match?

For the record, it does have extra footage at the sides compared to the 4:3 Dragon Box picture, from what Snaku showed us. That's the same as Funi, yes, but it's still the truth. But Toei never said anything about things being added to the sides, that was Wasted Wisher. So in a way he was right.

Honestly, we can't praise of criticize Kai yet other than saying it's cropped and the colors are different. What do you guys want from us? To hate it? Trust me, if it turns out to be bad we aren't going to sit around pretending we love it.

Fans have wanted a Dragon Ball Z that's accurate to the manga for years, so of course people are getting sort of excited.

But you gotta admit that this will be an argument that loyalists bring up. Loyalists always put down the FUNimation stuff and now, I don't see anything wrong with the dubbies having something to sling back at them. I'm not saying that this is necessarily a good thing, but it will happen and as long as it's not turning into huge arguments it's fine. It's just an observation. That a lot of people are accepting this, when, really, what it kinda is, is the Season Sets with the brightness turned down, a new opening, and cut out scenes.

What's wrong with it is the only reason you're complaining is out of spite because someone did the same to you. It's petty and ridiculous. If someone is being a hypocrite then sure, call them out on it. But you're just lumping the whole fanbase together into one pile so as soon as someone says something good about Kai, you call them a hypocrite regardless of whether they ever bad mouthed the season sets or not.

For the record, I like the season sets.

[Kendamu]

Anyone who wants me to see me as a hypocrite for being excited about Kai but not being a fan of the Bricks needs to find something else to worry about. The colors look fine to me, the filler's being cut out, and the cropping doesn't bother me. I'm going to venture a guess that we're not going to get a badly-colored Season 2, a bunch of cut off heads, or disappearing lines.

[VegettoEX]

What's wrong with it is the only reason you're complaining is out of spite because someone did the same to you. It's petty and ridiculous. If someone is being a hypocrite then sure, call them out on it. But you're just lumping the whole fanbase together into one pile so as soon as someone says something good about Kai, you call them a hypocrite regardless of whether they ever bad mouthed the season sets or not.

I really do like this post. Regardless of what the history has given us and what anyone's preferences on products have been, it does absolutely no good for any type of (delusional, educated, or otherwise) FUNimation loyalist to blindly laugh at the upcoming Toei product and sling mud at fans of the Japanese version of the show. It doesn't help anything, it hurts your own arguments, and makes your entire fragmented fandom look foolish.

Just because you're a fan of the Japanese version of the show doesn't inherently mean you like every last bit of Japanese "stuff" (just like I imagine that every FUNimation dub fan has at least one qualm with its production), and this will be no different.

I'd like to point out that, just like with DragonBall Evolution, these threads are going to be very heavily watched and moderated. Needless posts will be removed without warning or further communication. Attitudes will be warned and removed if necessary (though I [hopefully] don't see this being necessary).

As a totally random aside but slightly getting back to the topic at hand, I'm really curious about Wasted Wisher's material. Like he has noted, he couldn't comment on anything beyond episode one. Additionally, his exact phrasing regarding cropping was:

All of the scenes that were being worked on so far are not being cropped...in fact, quite the reverse, they're being extended.

I don't feel the need to apologize for or legitimize these statements, but here's an idea that popped up. Perhaps everything that his particular team was working on was the "extending" part, and they were just out of the loop regarding where that footage was heading (read: crop-ville)? I mean, seriously... he told us about the project a month before it happened. Between that and the character sheets, I think we can cut some slack and understanding. Hopefully we can just get some clarification on it!

[Kendamu]

Maybe for scenes that can't be cropped without important stuff being cut out, Toei is extending the sides of the frame to make it fit to 16:9 without having to cut anything. Y'know, as to avoid awkward shots.

[Bussani]

Maybe for scenes that can't be cropped without important stuff being cut out, Toei is extending the sides of the frame to make it fit to 16:9 without having to cut anything. Y'know, as to avoid awkward shots.

That would be nice. Optimistic thinking, but you never know!

[DemonRin]

Even if the cropping is happening, it's nothing like what FUNi did.
Not only do they seem to be reframing what they crop, so you don't lose any important image, the colors look gorgeous and the rerecorded dialog and music will be nice not to mention the cutting down on filler.
anyone who thinks everyone who was mad at FUNi should also be mad at Toei now don't get why people were mad at FUNi in the first place. Their season sets weren't just cropped, they had the really funky remaster process thingamajig that made you lose the finer lines when the image shook, not to mention bleaching out most of the color (I know this stuff stopped after the third or fourth set tho.) their Cropping happened dead center with little to no variation, and to top it all off they discontinued any and all fullscreen releases of the series when they started this release, meaning you HAD to buy the cropped one or nothing.
Not to mention that Toei is flat out advertising that they're modifying it with "The newest digital technology". They aren't saying "we're showing it to you how it was meant to be seen" they're saying "We're taking DBZ and making something completely new out of it, so much so that we are giving it a whole new name".

Even if Toei crops the whole thing, I don't think it will be bad at all because they're taking the care to reframe the shots whereas FUNi did not. Also, Wasted Wisher has proven he's trustworthy, so I think at the very least they aren't cropping ALL of it, just where they can get away with cropping it without losing anything important, because to be honest, everything in the trailer were situations like that. we haven't gotten to see anything where you really lose anything important yet. And cropping some and redrawing some would save them a lot of money.

So basically, Toei aren't modifying and "ruining" DBZ, they're making something new out of DBZ. if you want DBZ, go buy the Dragon Box singles, this is being advertised as something new, so it should be treated as such I think.

Sorry if this has already been said, I just wanted to pop in with my two cents.

[TheMajinRedComet]

I really hope they rerecord the music, not change it. It would be great to get a 5.1 Japanese track on the eventual North American release.

[tlsmith1963]

Even if the cropping is happening, it's nothing like what FUNi did.
Not only do they seem to be reframing what they crop, so you don't lose any important image, the colors look gorgeous and the rerecorded dialog and music will be nice not to mention the cutting down on filler.
anyone who thinks everyone who was mad at FUNi should also be mad at Toei now don't get why people were mad at FUNi in the first place. Their season sets weren't just cropped, they had the really funky remaster process thingamajig that made you lose the finer lines when the image shook, not to mention bleaching out most of the color (I know this stuff stopped after the third or fourth set tho.) their Cropping happened dead center with little to no variation, and to top it all off they discontinued any and all fullscreen releases of the series when they started this release, meaning you HAD to buy the cropped one or nothing.
Not to mention that Toei is flat out advertising that they're modifying it with "The newest digital technology". They aren't saying "we're showing it to you how it was meant to be seen" they're saying "We're taking DBZ and making something completely new out of it, so much so that we are giving it a whole new name".

Even if Toei crops the whole thing, I don't think it will be bad at all because they're taking the care to reframe the shots whereas FUNi did not. Also, Wasted Wisher has proven he's trustworthy, so I think at the very least they aren't cropping ALL of it, just where they can get away with cropping it without losing anything important, because to be honest, everything in the trailer were situations like that. we haven't gotten to see anything where you really lose anything important yet. And cropping some and redrawing some would save them a lot of money.

So basically, Toei aren't modifying and "ruining" DBZ, they're making something new out of DBZ. if you want DBZ, go buy the Dragon Box singles, this is being advertised as something new, so it should be treated as such I think.

Sorry if this has already been said, I just wanted to pop in with my two cents.

The cropping certainly does look better than Funimation's cropping, & the colors are nice. So I'm happy so far.

[Kendamu]

Maybe for scenes that can't be cropped without important stuff being cut out, Toei is extending the sides of the frame to make it fit to 16:9 without having to cut anything. Y'know, as to avoid awkward shots.

That would be nice. Optimistic thinking, but you never know!

Is optimism bad?

[Kingdom Heartless]

Maybe for scenes that can't be cropped without important stuff being cut out, Toei is extending the sides of the frame to make it fit to 16:9 without having to cut anything. Y'know, as to avoid awkward shots.

That would be nice. Optimistic thinking, but you never know!

Is optimism bad?

Only on the internet.

[Super Ghost Kamikaze]

What's wrong with it is the only reason you're complaining is out of spite because someone did the same to you. It's petty and ridiculous. If someone is being a hypocrite then sure, call them out on it. But you're just lumping the whole fanbase together into one pile so as soon as someone says something good about Kai, you call them a hypocrite regardless of whether they ever bad mouthed the season sets or not.

I really do like this post. Regardless of what the history has given us and what anyone's preferences on products have been, it does absolutely no good for any type of (delusional, educated, or otherwise) FUNimation loyalist to blindly laugh at the upcoming Toei product and sling mud at fans of the Japanese version of the show. It doesn't help anything, it hurts your own arguments, and makes your entire fragmented fandom look foolish.

Just because you're a fan of the Japanese version of the show doesn't inherently mean you like every last bit of Japanese "stuff" (just like I imagine that every FUNimation dub fan has at least one qualm with its production), and this will be no different.

I'd like to point out that, just like with DragonBall Evolution, these threads are going to be very heavily watched and moderated. Needless posts will be removed without warning or further communication. Attitudes will be warned and removed if necessary (though I [hopefully] don't see this being necessary).

I prefer the Japanese version of everything Dragonball. My personal opinion is that there is not a single good thing about the Funimation product outside of the Japanese audio track and what is easily the best set of subtitles I've seen on any foreign entertainment product.

However, I'm simply taking the cropping BY ITSELF, absent of everything else, and I think it's bad. I'm honestly iffy on taking out filler material as well. And because I don't care about "film quallity" exactly(I think all the Funimation orange bricks, disregarding cropping, are perfectly watchable outside of a couple key scenes), this new series has nothing that I think is particularly great so far.

That I am approaching this with some level of pessimism seems to be taken as outright lunacy, and I don't appreciate that. I'm not trying to get back at anyone, or laugh at those that think the orange bricks are rubbish. I just don't like where this whole "Kai" thing is going.

I'm getting a lot of:

"Shut up, and watch your DragonBoxes."

That's nice. It also works for everything else:

For example, on Daizex, it's not uncommon to see dub criticisms. When are those met with "The Japanese version is available in Dragon Boxes, shut up about the dub" brought up? Or "The Japanese version is fully subbed on all Funimation releases, shut up".

The popular opinion can tell the unpopular one to shut up as long as the unpopular opinion has an old toy to play with?

I'd rather allow pessimism to have a dialogue with optimism without being told to go back into my corner and be happy with something we already have.

[linkdude20002001]

The difference between people saying "Shut up about TOEI cropping the series! Just buy the Dragon Boxes!" and "Shut up about the dub! Just buy the Dragon Boxes!" is that TOEI isn't just cropping the series, they're making a new one. Yes, they're using footage from DBZ to make it, but Kai is its own series. Therefore, people shouldn't even be complaining about it being the same thing as what FUNimation did, 'cause it's not. FUNimation cropped DBZ, TOEI made Kai using cropped (but re-framed) footage of DBZ.

[Super Ghost Kamikaze]

The difference between people saying "Shut up about TOEI cropping the series! Just buy the Dragon Boxes!" and "Shut up about the dub! Just buy the Dragon Boxes!" is that TOEI isn't just cropping the series, they're making a new one. Yes, they're using footage from DBZ to make it, but Kai is its own series. Therefore, people shouldn't even be complaining about it being the same thing as what FUNimation did, 'cause it's not. FUNimation cropped DBZ, TOEI made Kai using cropped (but re-framed) footage of DBZ.

It's a matter of semantics, really. If Funimation called their Remaster a new series, would it be? Maybe if, for example, they cut everything out that wasn't filler?

I don't care what Funimation did, but I do think that if they slapped a new name on it, it wouldn't absolve them; of the guilt of making a bad product.

[VegettoEX]

It's a matter of semantics, really. If Funimation called their Remaster a new series, would it be?

Yes. See: Robotech.

[DemonRin]

It's a matter of semantics, really. If Funimation called their Remaster a new series, would it be? Maybe if, for example, they cut everything out that wasn't filler?

I don't care what Funimation did, but I do think that if they slapped a new name on it, it wouldn't absolve them; of the guilt of making a bad product.

Yes, if they released the Remastered sets as a new Series and didn't stop releasing the fullscreen version, as Toei is doing it would be considered a new series because- well, See VegettoEXs post...

[Vekurotto]

It's a matter of semantics, really. If Funimation called their Remaster a new series, would it be?

Yes. See: Robotech.

But Robotech changed more than the series of Macross, Southern Cross, and Mospeada's title name to Robotech. They also edited stuff, redid the story, and changed names. Unless Dragon Ball Kai is gonna have Goku being renamed to Ryunosuke and the story of Dragon Ball Z is different then it'll be like Robotech but as far as it shows this IS supposed to be simply fillerless Dragon Ball Z.

[DemonRin]

It's a matter of semantics, really. If Funimation called their Remaster a new series, would it be?

Yes. See: Robotech.

But Robotech changed more than the series of Macross, Southern Cross, and Mospeada's title name to Robotech. They also edited stuff, redid the story, and changed names. Unless Dragon Ball Kai is gonna have Goku being renamed to Ryunosuke and the story of Dragon Ball Z is different then it'll be like Robotech but as far as it shows this IS supposed to be simply fillerless Dragon Ball Z.

No, but they are:
1: Removing filler to some degree, and editing the story to make it "Speedy".
2: Rerecording ALL the dialog, there may even be alterations here and there to bring it closer to the manga when need be.
3: Rerecording the old music or doing new music (we dont know which yet)
4: Calling it a new Series (The words "NEW SERIES" are there big as day in the 15 second TV spot, not to mention Son says "New TV series: Dragon Ball Kai Starts Next Month!)

in fact, you can forget numbers 1-3, 4 is the only important one. they flat out say it's a new series in the Commercial.

And again, the big difference between Toei and FUNimation is that Toei is presenting this as a new series based on the old one, with a new title and everything while still offering the completely unedited original series on DVD.
FUNimation messed with it and then told you this was the way it was "Meant to be Seen" and then stopped releasing the fullscreen version.
It's nowhere near the same situation

[Bussani]

I'm starting to wonder if getting rid of the Z is part of some campaign on Toei's part to phase it out. The Jump Special was simply "Dragon Ball", which makes sense because it was the anniversary of Shonen Jump, in which Dragon Ball never had a Z.

But now we're getting Dragon Ball Kai. Literally 'Dragon Ball Renewed', right? It's like...forget the Z, the franchise is just Dragon Ball now.

And actually, since this is the 'Akira Toriyama manga cut' it makes sense to leave out the Z in a way.

[B]

No replacing Shunsuke Kikuchi's music is just changing the fabric of Dragon Ball much like how Gozar said a few pages back. There should be no reason to redo the music at all and it further proves my point, that they're just trying to change Dragon Ball and add some sort of gimick to it much like how Funi did.

Dragon Ball is fun, light-hearted and full of adventure. It should have fun, light-hearted, and adventurous music. Replacing the orignal music would be a bit disappointing, I agree, but if a new score still fits DB's atmosphere, then it's not really a problem with DBK, it's your problem with change.

The idea that it would be impossible to make a score as good as or better than the original is quite frankly, close-minded and well, dumb.

[DemonRin]

I'm starting to wonder if getting rid of the Z is part of some campaign on Toei's part to phase it out. The Jump Special was simply "Dragon Ball", which makes sense because it was the anniversary of Shonen Jump, in which Dragon Ball never had a Z.

But now we're getting Dragon Ball Kai. Literally 'Dragon Ball Renewed', right? It's like...forget the Z, the franchise is just Dragon Ball now.

And actually, since this is the 'Akira Toriyama manga cut' it makes sense to leave out the Z in a way.

Honestly, I think the rename was probably an attempt to get people to look at this series from a fresh perspective.
IE, people would look at it as a new series so it could be enjoyable Vs. people who grew up with DBZ looking at "Shin Dragon Ball Z" and then going "What the hell is this?! It's not the Dragon Ball Z I remember!!"