Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

[DanielSSJ]

That could work too. Although I don't know if it works better that way. Here's my power scaling of the numbers:

SSJ Gotenks (pre-ROSAT) = 1.5

Majin Vegeta/SSJ2 Goku = 2

SSJ Gotenks = 3

SSJ2 Gotenks = 6

SSJ3 Goku = 8

Super Buu = 20

SSJ3 Gotenks = 24

To be honest. I'd rather want to be a gap like this between SSJ3 Goku and Gotenks, and the reason it's because Goku was afraitd to fight Super Buu, who's nearly as equal as Gotenks. Even with Vegeta on his side, they wouldn't have a chance.

Why do you have Gotenks so far above Super Buu?

Not my list, but it could be that Gotenks is quite a bit stronger, and that Boo can even the odds with regeneration or something.

[dragonball0900]

Why do you have Gotenks so far above Super Buu?

Well, Gotenks isn't really that far above Super Buu, a 20 to 24 is not that big of a difference, and Gotenks was playing a bit in the fight as well.

[TheUltimateNinja]

Why do you have Gotenks so far above Super Buu?

Not my list, but it could be that Gotenks is quite a bit stronger, and that Boo can even the odds with regeneration or something.

Why do you have Gotenks so far above Super Buu?

Well, Gotenks isn't really that far above Super Buu, a 20 to 24 is not that big of a difference, and Gotenks was playing a bit in the fight as well.

All the dialogue in the manga suggests that Gotenks is equal or at best slightly stronger than Buu. Piccolo refers to Gotenks as Buu's equal and Buu tells Gohan he was the only one capable of usurping his place as the strongest, suggesting that Gotenks isn't actually stronger than Buu.

Also, Buu says he'd been sensing Gohan's ki for quite some time and planned to absorb Gotenks to match him, this shows that he simply allowed Gotenks to beat on him so that Gotenks would feel confident fusing later so he could absorb him. Without Gohan's interference the fight would have been quite different.

Anyway, the point is that Gotenks may be somewhat stronger, but 20-24 is definitely too huge a gap, I'd suggest 23-24.

[dragonball0900]

All the dialogue in the manga suggests that Gotenks is equal or at best slightly stronger than Buu. Piccolo refers to Gotenks as Buu's equal and Buu tells Gohan he was the only one capable of usurping his place as the strongest, suggesting that Gotenks isn't actually stronger than Buu.

Also, Buu says he'd been sensing Gohan's ki for quite some time and planned to absorb Gotenks to match him, this shows that he simply allowed Gotenks to beat on him so that Gotenks would feel confident fusing later so he could absorb him. Without Gohan's interference the fight would have been quite different.

Anyway, the point is that Gotenks may be somewhat stronger, but 20-24 is definitely too huge a gap, I'd suggest 23-24.

Well, 23 to 24 works too anyway, so yeah. I can probably put it at 22.

[Bullza]

Two questions.

1. How strong is Kibitokai when compared to say Goku? Kibito was weaker than Base Gohan and Supereme Kai was stronger than Piccolo but weaker than SSJ Goku. Is Kibitokai stronger than SSJ Goku? I don't imagine he'd be higher than SSJ2 Goku.

2. How strong is Base Vegito? Didn't something somewhere say he's stronger than SSJ3 Goku?

[ekrolo2]

Two questions.

1. How strong is Kibitokai when compared to say Goku? Kibito was weaker than Base Gohan and Supereme Kai was stronger than Piccolo but weaker than SSJ Goku. Is Kibitokai stronger than SSJ Goku? I don't imagine he'd be higher than SSJ2 Goku.

2. How strong is Base Vegito? Didn't something somewhere say he's stronger than SSJ3 Goku?

All we know is that Kibitokai is much stronger than before but he's no match for Super Boo. That can really put him anywhere from SS1 to SS3 Goku and still ring true.

Base Vegetto's Base strength is never really commented on. All we know is that he can rofl stomp Super Boo without seemingly using much of his SS1 power. I usually have SS3 Gotenks, Gohan and Super Boo around 4-6 stronger than SS3 Goku.

[DanielSSJ]

Two questions.

1. How strong is Kibitokai when compared to say Goku? Kibito was weaker than Base Gohan and Supreme Kai was stronger than Piccolo but weaker than SSJ Goku. Is Kibitokai stronger than SSJ Goku? I don't imagine he'd be higher than SSJ2 Goku.

2. How strong is Base Vegito? Didn't something somewhere say he's stronger than SSJ3 Goku?

1. There's no real context to Kibitoshin's strength aside from the fact that he'd be worthless against Gotenks-Boo, though given the fact that Vegeta stuck around for the fight with Pure Boo and he didn't, I think it's safe to say that he's probably still inferior to SS2 Vegeta and Goku, though that could be more due to his overall ineptitude than a lack of strength. That said, I personally stick him on the low end of the Super Saiyan 2 tier, at around the same level as SS2 Gohan during the Boo Arc.

2. Vegetto doesn't do any fighting in his base form in the manga, so he can be as strong as you want him to be as long as he's a heck of a lot stronger than Goku's and Vegeta's base form. I know the anime portrays him as fighting on par with Gohan-Boo, but that seems like an unnecessary exaggeration. Making sure that Super Vegetto is at least two or three times stronger than Gohan-Boo and then dividing that number by 50 usually leaves him somewhere between Super Saiyan 2 and 3 for me.

[DBZ Macky]

I was watching SethTheProgrammer's (a YouTuber) video, and the guy claimed that it has been stated somewhere that base Vegetto is at least 400x stronger than Goku. Has this actually been stated in some official material?

[ekrolo2]

I was watching SethTheProgrammer's (a YouTuber) video, and the guy claimed that it has been stated somewhere that base Vegetto is at least 400x stronger than Goku. Has this actually been stated in some official material?

That sounds like a massive load of crap. I've been on here for almost 2 years and literally no one has ever said that, ever with an official statement from Toriyama or even the guidebooks to back such a claim up.

[Kamiccolo9]

I was watching SethTheProgrammer's (a YouTuber) video, and the guy claimed that it has been stated somewhere that base Vegetto is at least 400x stronger than Goku. Has this actually been stated in some official material?

That sounds like a massive load of crap. I've been on here for almost 2 years and literally no one has ever said that, ever with an official statement from Toriyama or even the guidebooks to back such a claim up.

This sounds like someone taking Vegetto's performance in the anime, and mixing that with the 400x multiplier from the Super Exciting God. Anime Base Vegetto would have to be at least 400x stronger than Anime Base Goku, taking the multipliers into account.

[ekrolo2]

This sounds like someone taking Vegetto's performance in the anime, and mixing that with the 400x multiplier from the Super Exciting God. Anime Base Vegetto would have to be at least 400x stronger than Anime Base Goku, taking the multipliers into account.

This is most likely true but it doesn't sound like Seth is making a distinction between anime and manga Vegetto and he's just taking the anime as the default response when anime Vegetto is a completely other beast than manga Vegetto was.

[Doctor.]

I think it stems from a statement in Daizenshuu 7 that Vegetto's power is even greater than that of a Super Saiyan 3, and only after that line do they talk about Vegetto's Super Saiyan form. Some people take it as the Daizenshuu stating that the Potara boost for Goku and Vegeta is superior to Super Saiyan 3's boost.

He has both Vegeta's coolheaded battle strategies and Goku's pure fighting sense, and there can be no doubt that his strength measures even greater than that of a [Super] Saiyan 3. He is capable of transforming from his normal state into a Super Saiyan form. He has certain special characteristics, including that his strength doesn't change even if his shape does.

[DBZ Macky]

Don't wanna bring "canon" debates into this thread, but I think DBS is kind of a direct continuation of Kai (which is really what it is technically, since it aired right after Kai ended).

That's really why I usually consider Kai filler as "canon" to the Super Anime. Sure, there are a few contradictions like Freeza watching the fight in hell and what not, but it works overall.

So would you consider base Vegetto's performance from the Anime (which they oddly left out in Kai) as a basis for his power in Super?

EDIT: Doctor. The thing is that somehow Dabra fights SS2 Gohan evenly according to one Daizenshuu while Gohan never uses the form after the Tenkaichi Budokai according to another Daizenshuu.

Kaboom said that this might be because while one of the book is referring to the Manga only, the other one is referring to both the Anime and the Manga.

So this entry might be something like that and not necessarily apply to Manga!Vegetto.

[ahill1]

This sounds like someone taking Vegetto's performance in the anime, and mixing that with the 400x multiplier from the Super Exciting God. Anime Base Vegetto would have to be at least 400x stronger than Anime Base Goku, taking the multipliers into account.

Base Vegetto would have to be more than 400x above base Goku, considering he was giving a good fight to Boohan, while Bootenks was dominating SSJ3 Goku.

[dbgtFO]

This sounds like someone taking Vegetto's performance in the anime, and mixing that with the 400x multiplier from the Super Exciting God. Anime Base Vegetto would have to be at least 400x stronger than Anime Base Goku, taking the multipliers into account.

Base Vegetto would have to be more than 400x above base Goku, considering he was giving a good fight to Boohan, while Bootenks was dominating SSJ3 Goku.

Yes, that's what he said.

[Bullza]

I thought it was a DB Heroes card or something that said Vegito was even stronger than a Super Saiyan 3 and then after that also mentioned how he could turn Super Saiyan aswell.

[ahill1]

This sounds like someone taking Vegetto's performance in the anime, and mixing that with the 400x multiplier from the Super Exciting God. Anime Base Vegetto would have to be at least 400x stronger than Anime Base Goku, taking the multipliers into account.

Base Vegetto would have to be more than 400x above base Goku, considering he was giving a good fight to Boohan, while Bootenks was dominating SSJ3 Goku.

Yes, that's what he said.

He said base Vegetto has to be at least 400x stronger. He has to be more than 400x stronger for sure. That's what I'm saying.

[Bullza]

Who was stronger at the Cell Games. Piccolo or Super Saiyan Vegeta or Trunks. Obviously in their Grade 2 forms they're stronger than Piccolo but what about their ordinary Super Saiyan forms?

People here were saying that Piccolo was even stronger than Semi Perfect Cell at the Cell Games. Before their second visit into the ROSAT Vegeta and Trunks were assumingly weaker than Semi Perfect Cell in their Super Saiyan forms.

[ekrolo2]

I'm pretty sure Vegeta and Trunks are using just Super Saiyan in the manga of the Cell Games and Cell's dialogue about them certainly implies they're already above Piccolo with that.

Piccolo being stronger than Semi-Cell largely derives from him being one of three who can stand his ground against the Cell Jrs while everyone else, Goku too, is being stomped. Piccolo certainly looks way more beaten up than Vegeta or Trunks but he's still on his feet.

[Bullza]

Funnily enough that kinda led me to another question, in the first Broly Movie, Bojack Unbound and the Hatchback OVA did Vegeta and Trunks use their Ascended Super Saiyan forms or not?

I don't think I've seen anyone say they weren't using their Ascended Super Saiyan forms at the Cell Games. I don't k ow what to think about that.