Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

[Kaboom]

That's a pretty neat approach. I like how Super Vegetto's power is literally "off the charts."

[Godo]

Any criticism about the battle powers themselves will be entirely discredit, so don't bother to post about them. The other story arcs will probably be included later. Thoughts?

What is the scaling in the Y axis? Does every line represent a 2x increase or more/less?
The approach is interesting (and actually much better for PLs IMO rather than pure numbers, since I don't believe in numbers that much tbh).

[Senzu_Bean]

That's a pretty neat approach. I like how Super Vegetto's power is literally "off the charts."

Yeah, I thought in represent his battle power as "impossible to measure" or something like that but that was before I decided to go with this approach, instead of horizontal bars. I believe it easily show how Super Vegetto is above pretty much everybody in the story.

There is also the fact that if I represented Super Vegetto's battle power you probably wouldn't notice the difference between the lower levels of Super Saiyan, like you can't pretty much see the difference between Saiyans' norm form, Kibito, Tenshinhan, Pui Pui and Yakon.

What is the scaling in the Y axis? Does every line represent a 2x increase or more/less?
The approach is interesting (and actually much better for PLs IMO rather than pure numbers, since I don't believe in numbers that much tbh).

The vertical scaling is, in this case, nothing more than a guide to help relate the characters' levels. It is of course true that I had to give numerical values (not scouter battle power) to each character to represent them as you see here but, as you say, numbers aren't relevant at this part of the story thus why I didn't put them on the graph.

But if you're curious everything you see in there is ruled by official rules of course. From Super Saiyan to Potara fusion multipliers.

[Senzu_Bean]

The previous arc is up now.


Click here for larger version.


Click here for larger version.

[Kirby456]

Looks really good, man.

[dbgtFO]

I agree with the others. Good job on those charts. Looking at it again, it actually conveys the huge gaps between the characters pretty nicely, far more so than numbers can.

Anyways here are my levels for Early Dragon Ball, now heavily inspired by Weekly Jump's, Daizenshuu 7's(both of which, I consider coming straight from Toriyama) and Outer Z's Battle Powers.
Like Outer Z, I'll be noting the source of every battle power and will state my reason for ignoring one, if I decide I want to.

*: indicates BP from the Weekly Jump chart.
¤: indicates BP from Daizenshuu 7's chart.

Son Goku’s Great Adventure


Meeting Bulma (Age 749)

Bulma: 5.

Son Goku: 10. ¤
-Oozaru: 100. ¤

Yamcha: 8.

Kuririn: 7.

The 21st Tenkaichi Budoukai (Age 749-750)

Son Goku: 70.
-Oozaru: 700.

Kuririn: 49.

Both Goku and Krillin's Battle Powers are 7 times, what they were before, simply because it'll work better with the later gaps and such. Idea introduced by Outer Z.

Bacterian: 8.

Yamcha: 12.

Lanfan: 7.

Namu: 60.

Giran: 35.

Jacky Chun: 70.
-Full Power: 139.

Yamcha hasn't increased much, since he's only trained on his own, while Namu is close to Goku's level. In Battle Power alone, Jacky Chun and Goku are equals, but Chun has the advantage in his legs(how he won), while Goku has stronger arms(seen, when he's able to move the boulder farther than Roshi).

Roshi's Full Power is something I see as similar to Super Saiyan Grade 3. While it's his most powerful state, I'm pretty sure all those muscles makes it hard for him to move around with agility and speed, which is what was needed in his fights against Krillin and the nimble Goku. So he doesn't use it in a fight. Only when making his Giant Kamehameha. I also believe that it's a side-effect of him not keeping in shape, so to use his full power he goes into that state, because he hasn't trained to hold so much ki properly. But we are getting off-track here...

The Battle with the Red Ribbon Army (Age 750)

Son Goku: 70+.
-After training under Karin: 120.

Karin: 190.*

Tao Pai Pai: 110. According to Japanese Wikipedia, there's an issue of V-Jump, which gives him this level. Unfortunately noone has been able to find the issue in question, so it hasn't been confirmed yet. But I'm going with it anyways, because Tao Pai Pai being weaker than Tsuru-sennin makes the most sense to me.

Dracula Man: 6.

Suke-san: 9
I think Piccolo Daimao said it best regarding Krillin's relation to these two fellows.

Uranai Baba said that her champions got progressively stronger, and Yamcha easily defeated Suke-san, who was stronger than Dracula Man, which must mean (if it wasn't evident already) that Dracula Man's much weaker than Kuririn, and his win was only due to the fact that he sucked Kuririn's blood.

Mummy-kun: 80.

Akkuman: 100.

The Masked Man (Son Gohan): 120.

Mummy-kun was far above Yamcha, and the next two were even further above that. Even though Son Gohan states that in the end, he stood no chance against Goku, it doesn't necessarily mean that he's far inferior in terms of Battle Power.

The 22nd Tenkaichi Budoukai (Age 753)

King Chapa: 100.

Son Goku: 150
-Battle Strength: 180. *¤ In his fight against Tenshinhan, Goku reveals that he had been holding back up till now. He then goes full power and proceeds to kick Tenshinhan's ass for a while.

Yamcha: 108.

Kuririn: 110.

Chaozu: 100.

Pan-Poot: 75.

"But... Yamcha lost, and he was about as good as me." As stated by Krillin, Yamcha is about as good as him. Pan-Poot is good seen from an ordinary level(where ordinary apparently means only being able to break a brick wall...), while Goku, Krillin, Yamcha, Tenshinhan and even Chaozu are considered "super-masters, who have supposed the ordinary."

Tsuru-sennin: 120. *

Jacky Chun: 139. ¤ Power greater than Tsuru-sennin, stated by Tenshinhan.

Tenshinhan: 180. *¤

As mentioned earlier, I saw Roshi's bulked up form, as a byproduct of not training. Now that he has been training, he's able to use all of that power properly instead of wasting it on that other state. As Toriyama himself stated, he liked the Tenshinhan/Goku fight because they were almost exactly even in ability, so just putting them as equals is justified.

The Revival of Piccolo Daimao (Age 753)

Piano: 6. Piccolo's Demon Scale = 6.

Yajirobe: 150.

Cymbal: 110. Piccolo's Demon Scale = 44.

Tambourine: 140. Piccolo's Demon Scale = 133.

Drum: 205. Piccolo's Demon Scale = 435.

Yajirobe seems to be evenly matched with Goku's match-use power, but is dumbfounded by Goku's true power. Piccolo states that Tambourine is many times stronger than Cymbal. Contrary to popular belief this doesn't necessarily have to mean in terms of a ki measuring system, Piccolo wouldn't know about and Toriyama hadn't created yet. It's the same with Piccolo's ½ power line. So for this chart, Piccolo has his own strength scale called the Demon Scale, which he uses until his death.

Son Goku: 260. *¤
-Fighting level: 230.

Piccolo Daimao: 220. *- assuming a mistake was made. Piccolo's Demon Scale = 640.
-less than ½: 200. On Piccolo's Demon Scale = 316.
-Young: 260. *¤ Piccolo's Demon Scale = 666. An obvious choice.
--Fighting level: 230.

Mister Popo: 300.

And this is where I change it a little. Since I think 260 like all other battle powers stated in Weekly Jump applies to highest ki-output, I have given Piccolo and Goku a seperate level, which is the level they fight at. The 260 for Piccolo is his City destroyer attack: Bakkurimaha or something like that, while 260 for Goku is his final attack at the end. That's probably not how Toriyama/Weekly Jump writers intended it, but whatevs. And Mr. Popo doesn't get to his ridiculous BP of 1030 until the Saiyan Arc.

The 23rd Tenkaichi Budoukai (Age 756)

King Chapa: 160.

Chaozu: 160.

I had these two as equals in the previous arc as well. I don't know why, it just seems to fit... Anyways before the preliminaries begin, Roshi states that he's no longer any match for the gang, so this will include Chaozu as well, since he obviously wasn't defeated before the statement was made.

Son Goku: 300.
-Without Weights: 400.
-Super Kamehameha: 910. * Highest ki-output is what I consider this Battle Power was alluding to. Since his highest ki-output is achieved, when making his Super Kamehameha, I applied the Battle Power to that.

Anonymous (Chi Chi): 130. *

Cyborg Tao Pai Pai: 210. *

Tenshinhan: 249.
-Shishin no Ken: 62,25 each body.

Kuririn: 205.

Yamcha: 176.

Shen (God): 340.

Ma Junior (Piccolo): 360
-Full Power: 390.
--Shockwave: 890.

Since Tenshinhan says/implies he's far weaker than God and Piccolo, I have two options.
1)Since Tao Pai Pai is at 210 and God is at 220, Tenshinhan has to be placed between those two, making the gap in Battle Power extremely tiny.
2) Maybe it was an oversight? It would work much better, if it just referred to Old Piccolo Daimao, which is also what I put him at. Since I'm biased towards my danish version, where it's stated black on white that God is far stronger than Mr. Popo instead of far more incredible or whatever it said originally, I'll go with nr. 2 and give him a more "fitting(IMO of course)" BP.

EDIT: When I think about it, Tao Pai Pai's 210 could like the other BPs be highest ki output as well, meaning it could just be his Super Dodonpa that has that BP. But of course Tenshinhan was able to neutralize it with a kiai, so it would be the same regardless.

[Kirby456]

So i guess this is were you post power levels okay. My list will start out in Dragon Ball and go all the way up to the end of Z. I have to separate lists on for the Anime and one for the Manga this will be a mix of both. If you have any suggestions just ask me. Okay here i go.

Pilaf Saga

Master Roshi = 41 (Roshi was out of practice)
- Kamehameha Buff Full Power = 108

Ox-King = 29

Goku = 18
- Hungry = 14
- Kamehameha = 30
- Oozaru = 180
- Tailless = 17

Yamcha = 14
- Wolf Fang Fist = 16 (the power of the Wolf Fang fist!)

Bear Thief = 10.20

Chi-Chi = 9.34

Dinosaur = 9.16

Pterodactyl = 7.84

Boss Rabbit = 6.66

Turtle = 0.001
- Full Power = 6.26

Black Mobster = 5.43

White Mobster = 5.37

Mai = 5

Bulma = 4.64

Shu = 4.10

Emperor Pilaf = 3.62

Oolong = 3.48

Puar = 2.07

Goku got weaker when his tail was removed so i subtracted 1 point of his power. Yamcha seemed equal to a hungry Goku. As when he fought a Not hungry Goku he got his clock cleaned. The Rabbit gangsters get a power over that of the average human as they were able to give Goku a black eye (even if it was by surprise).

[CatouttaHell]

Sooo... here's one more slight revision to my list. It's still mostly based on the numbers from that chart I liked so much, but with some tweaks here and there to my liking. Not a big deal, except that it'll be what certain other things are based on later. So I figured I should/could post it for reference.

Awesome list. One thing I disagree with is SSjin 2 Goku being equal to Enraged SSjin 2 Gohan when both Vegeta and Piccolo said he and Demon Prince Vegeta were stronger. Though I guess you kind of have to balance both the rage boost and how strong Goku and Vegeta are with a 2x multiplier so you don't wind up having SSjin Goku >>> SSjin 2 Gohan like I used to.

Also Yakon is way too high IMO. I mean it's possible he's stronger than Base Goku but I feel there just can't be a gap that huge. Especially since Goku only went SSjin as a way of going HEY LOOK WHAT I CAN DO!, not because he felt he needed it. Otherwise that's a great list. I borrowed your idea of having a 125x multiplier for Super Saiya-jin Grade 3 because I recently switched to a 2x multiplier and things are just out of control with USSjin being less than SSjin 2.

I Anyways here are my levels for Early Dragon Ball, now heavily inspired by Weekly Jump's, Daizenshuu 7's(both of which, I consider coming straight from Toriyama) and Outer Z's Battle Powers.
Like Outer Z, I'll be noting the source of every battle power and will state my reason for ignoring one, if I decide I want to.

I disagree totally on the gap between Roshi and Goku/Ten being that big to be honest. I always felt Tenshinhan was beating Roshi only because he managed to injure him with the Taiyo-ken (Lunch said he was shaky after he got back up.) Though I do think Goku >> Roshi, I don't think it's a huge gap. Just my opinion though.

The demon scale is a very interesting concept. I've never seen that explanation before. Usually people either try to make Piccolo's ridiculous statements work, which messes up the whole rest of the list, or they just consider him dumb (that's what I do anyway.)

I really disagree with everyone being an inch below their Beginning of Z selves but I guess there's just no way around it if you follow the V-Jump numbers. I also think you give Goku way too big of an increase during the 21st Tenkaichi Budokai training but that's just my opinion.

So i guess this is were you post power levels okay. My list will start out in Dragon Ball and go all the way up to the end of Z. I have to separate lists on for the Anime and one for the Manga this will be a mix of both. If you have any suggestions just ask me. Okay here i go.

Pilaf is way too low IMO. He should be at 3 or so at least I think. Pilaf being weaker than Pu-erh is crazy IMO... The dinosaur and the Bear Thief should be a lot closer together too, I think. I'm starting to think there should be a bigger gap between tailless Goku and Goku with a tail. Giran practically crapped himself and instantly gave up once he saw the power of Goku with a tail. Just my opinion though.



Anyway, while I'm here I'll hype my own battle powers list which is over here on the Neoseeker forums. I'm following pretty much everything in the Daizenshuu nowadays including Goten being as strong as Gohan, Gohan being a Super Saiya-jin 2 against Dabra, the implications that Chibi Boo >> Shin Boo, etc so it's a bit "crazy" nowadays. I have Metamorian fusion as a+b because the Daizenshuu says that Goten = Gohan and that Gotenks surpassed Vegeta and co only after the RoSaT so those two things make me feel that that's what the fusion boost actually is.

[dbgtFO]

I disagree totally on the gap between Roshi and Goku/Ten being that big to be honest. I always felt Tenshinhan was beating Roshi only because he managed to injure him with the Taiyo-ken (Lunch said he was shaky after he got back up.) Though I do think Goku >> Roshi, I don't think it's a huge gap. Just my opinion though.

Like I said, it's heavily inspired by the official battle powers.

The demon scale is a very interesting concept. I've never seen that explanation before. Usually people either try to make Piccolo's ridiculous statements work, which messes up the whole rest of the list, or they just consider him dumb (that's what I do anyway.)

Well in a sense I am making Piccolo's statement work, but not in relation to Battle Powers.

I really disagree with everyone being an inch below their Beginning of Z selves but I guess there's just no way around it if you follow the V-Jump numbers.

That was just me being lazy.

I also think you give Goku way too big of an increase during the 21st Tenkaichi Budokai training but that's just me.

I personally think it fits just fine like that.

[Kirby456]

Pilaf is way too low IMO. He should be at 3 or so at least I think. Pilaf being weaker than Pu-erh is crazy IMO... The dinosaur and the Bear Thief should be a lot closer together too, I think. I'm starting to think there should be a bigger gap between tailless Goku and Goku with a tail. Giran practically crapped himself and instantly gave up once he saw the power of Goku with a tail. Just my opinion though.

Anyway, while I'm here I'll hype my own battle powers list which is over here on the Neoseeker forums. I'm following pretty much everything in the Daizenshuu nowadays including Goten being as strong as Gohan, Gohan being a Super Saiya-jin 2 against Dabra, the implications that Chibi Boo >> Shin Boo, etc so it's a bit "crazy" nowadays. I have Metamorian fusion as a+b because the Daizenshuu says that Goten = Gohan and that Gotenks surpassed Vegeta and co only after the RoSaT so those two things make me feel that that's what the fusion boost actually is.

Fixed typo. I think the Bear Thief was a fair amount stronger then the Pterodactyl. Besides that how does it look?.

[dbgtFO]

Piccolo states that Tambourine is many times stronger than Cymbal. Contrary to popular belief this doesn't necessarily have to mean in terms of a ki measuring system, Piccolo wouldn't know about and Toriyama hadn't created yet.

As a Demon Clansman made to battle, his battle power is many times greater than Cymbal's.

, apparently Daizenshuu 7 took Piccolo's line to mean the same thing I was arguing against, so since I follow whatever Manga or guidebooks say, Cymbal's Battle Power is no longer 110, but rather a measly 35 - equal to Giran(they do look alike)!

[CatouttaHell]

Well in a sense I am making Piccolo's statement work, but not in relation to Battle Powers.

Yeah that statement just doesn't work if you think he's talking about Battle Power and that he's not bluffing. I've tried many times but failed. There's just no room at all for stuff like that, unless you disregard the Daizenshuu and just assume that 1.1x and 1.2x gaps are one-shot gaps instead of rivaling gaps.

Fixed typo. I think the Bear Thief was a fair amount stronger then the Pterodactyl. Besides that how does it look?.

I like your list. I don't really think the Rabbit Mobsters were much of anything personally. Goku just stood there and let them punch and kick the crap out of him and he was COMPLETELY unhurt a few panels later. That's just my opinion though. Where would you place Mr. Satan in all of this, out of curiousity? Personally, I believe Initial Kid Goku >>> Bear Thief > Videl > Spopovich > Mr. Satan. My reasoning being that Videl was stomping Spopovich until she simply ran out of energy to keep fighting. His ridiculous durability is what gave him the win IMO.

Well, that and I'm way too much of a Chibi Goku fanboy to believe that garbage like Mr. Satan and Videl can be anywhere near him.

, apparently Daizenshuu 7 took Piccolo's line to mean the same thing I was arguing against, so since I follow whatever Manga or guidebooks say, Cymbal's Battle Power is no longer 110, but rather a measly 35 - equal to Giran(they do look alike)!

So you believe Goten = Gohan then? The Daizenshuu says Goten has power not the least bit inferior to Gohan's. I mean no offence when I say that. I'm one of the few who takes EVERYTHING in the Daizenshuu seriously so I was wondering if you also believe that line.

And Giran is a beast. He took multiple blows from Tambourine in the manga and even budged his head back with a surprise tail-smack in the Anime. Cymbal being on par with Giran isn't bad at all. Especially when you consider he's merely fodder who was created by Piccolo to hunt for the Dragon Balls, not to go around killing strong guys like Tambourine.

[dbgtFO]

CatouttaHell
Yes I mostly follow whatever they say, at least, when making these lists.

Anyways My Z list.
As always following what manga and guidebooks say.

*: BP from manga.
¤: BP from supplemental stuff like Weekly Jump, V-Jump and databooks.

Super Saiyan Transformations:

Super Saiyan: BP * 50, speed * 50.
Super Saiyan Second Grade: BP * 100, speed * 75. Speed isn't increased as much as Raw Power.
Super Saiyan Third Grade: BP * 500, speed *75. The speed of SSG3 is the same as the speed of SSG2.

Super Saiyan 2: BP * 100, speed * 100.
Super Saiyan 3: BP * 400, speed * 400.

As we see the true levels of Super Saiyan are balanced, while the failures SSG2 and especially SSG3 aren't.

Fusion

Metamorian Fusion: when a = b,
Product = a*b*0,000000036.

Potara Fusion:
Product = a*b*0,000000040
-when rivals:
Product = a*b*0,00000833333

Saiyan Arc

An Unprecedented Terror

Son Goku: 334. *
-Without weights: 416. *¤
-Kamehameha: 924. *

Piccolo: 322. *
-Without weights: 408. *¤
-Makankosappo: 1,330. *¤
-After fighting Raditz: 329. *

Son Gohan: 1~710. *¤
-Angry: 1,307. *¤
-Oozaru: 13,070. *

Raditz: 1,500.

Kame-sennin: 139. *
Kuririn: 206. *
Tenshinhan: 250. *
Yamcha: 177. *

Farmer: 5. *

A Fateful Super Decisive Battle!!

Kaio-sama: 3,500. ¤

Son Goku: 5,000. *
-Full Power: 8,000. *
-Kaio-ken x2: 16,000. *
-Kaio-ken x3: 24,000. *
-Kaio-ken x4: 32,000. *¤

Genkidama: 100,000.
-second try: 50,000.

Piccolo: 1,220. *
-Full Power: 3,500. ¤
-scared of Nappa: 2,000.

Son Gohan: 981. * - kinda. The manga doesn't say, which BP belongs to who, but the anime gives Gohan this.
-Masenko: 2800. *
-Oozaru: less than 28,000. - when battling Vegeta it would be way less, since his ki wasn't fully restored(only ate ½ a senzu) and he was worn down from the previous battle.

Kuririn: 1,083. * Just like with Gohan's BP it isn't stated in the manga, which BP belongs to whom.
-Full Power: 1,770. ¤

Tenshinhan: 1,830. ¤ - it would have been registered at way less, before the fight of course.

Chaozu: 610. ¤

Yamcha: 1,480. ¤

Yajirobe: 970. ¤

Saibaiman: 1,200. *

Nappa: 4,000. ¤ - Neither Nappa nor Vegeta believed Goku's BP was 8,000+, which is why Vegeta judged Goku's power based on how he fought Nappa instead of relying on what the scouter told him. If you ask me Goku was fighting Nappa with a BP of 5,000, while Nappa, when angry was performing like he only had a BP of 2,000. It's first, when he calms down that he's able to fight like he should, which still wasn't enough.

Vegeta: 18,000. *¤
-Oozaru: less than 180,000. - like with Gohan, Vegeta wouldn't be at full power in monkey form, since he weakened himself even more than he already was, when he made his power ball.

The Freeza Arc

Go For It! The Planet Namek

Son Gohan: 5.
-Fighting: about 1,500. *
-Saichoro unlock: 14,000. ¤

Kuririn: 5.
-Fighting: about 1,500. *
-Full Power: 1,800.
-Saichoro unlock: 13,000. ¤

Vegeta: 24,000. *
-Revival Power-up: 30,000. ¤

Kyui: 18,000. ¤

Young Namekians: around 1,000. *
-Full Power: 3,000. *

Dodoria: 22,000. ¤

Zarbon: 23,000. ¤
-Transformed: 29,900.

The Terrible Ginyu Special-Squad

Son Gohan: 14,000. ¤
Kuririn: 13,000. ¤
Vegeta: 30,000. ¤

Gurd: 5,000.

Recoome: 46,000.
Butta: 44,000. - Even though he's only about as strong as Recoom and Jheese, he's the fastest being in the universe. To make this statement valid I think it was determined in a sprint race, where acceleration is the key element in winning. So Butta has great acceleration, but if he and Ginyu was to fly a long distance, then Ginyu would win, if you ask me.
Jheese: 45,000.

Captain Ginyu: 75,000.
-Full Power: 120,000. *
-In Goku’s body: 23,000. *

Son Goku: 5,000. *
-in bursts: 70,000.
-Full Power: 90,000. *
-Kaio-ken x2: 180,000. *

Nail: 42,000. *
-near death: 10.

The Legendary Super Saiyan

Piccolo: 128,000.
-Merged with Nail: 1,280,000.
-No weights: 1,500,000.

Son Gohan: 200,000. ¤
-Angry: 950,000.
-Revival Power-Up: 400,000.
--Full-Power: 1,900,000.

Kuririn: 75,000. ¤

Vegeta: 250,000. ¤
Revival Power-Up: 2,500,000.

Son Goku: 3,000,000. ¤
-Kaio-ken x10: 30,000,000. ¤
-Kaio-ken x20: 60,000,000. ¤
-Super Saiyan: 150,000,000. ¤

Genkidama: 100,000,000. - such a nice round number.

Freeza: 530,000. *
-Second Form: 1,400,000.
-Third Form: 2,000,000.
-Final Form: 3,400,000.
-Final Form, 50%: 60,000,000. ¤
-Final Form, 100%: 120,000,000. ¤

The Cell Arc

The Boy from the Future

Mecha Freeza: 130,000,000.
King Cold: 110,000,000.

Trunks: 5.
-Full Power: 3,000,000.
-Super Saiyan: 150,000,000.

Son Goku: 3,400,000.
-Super Saiyan: 170,000,000.

Goku, Defeated!
Trunks: 3,500,000.
-Super Saiyan: 175,000,000.

Son Goku: 3,900,000.
-Super Saiyan: 195,000,000.

Vegeta: 4,000,000.
-Super Saiyan: 200,000,000.

Piccolo: 150,000,000.

Android No.20: 120,000,000.
Android No.19: 100,000,000.

Android No.18: 270,000,000.

Android No.17: 300,000,000.

Cell's Perfect Form, Achieved!!

Piccolo: 300,000,000.

Cell: 220,000,000.
-after absorbing hundreds of thousands of people: 450,000,000.
-Second Form: 750,000,000.
--Full Power: 2,250,000,000.
-Kanzentai(warm-up): 2,520,000,000.
--Not warming up: 10,000,000,000.

Android No.16: 450,000,000.

Vegeta: 31,000,000.
-Super Saiyan: 1,550,000,000.
--Super Saiyan Second Grade: 3,100,000,000.

Trunks: 30,000,000.
-Super Saiyan: 1,500,000,000.
--Super Saiyan Second Grade: 3,000,000,000.
---Super Saiyan Third Grade: 15,000,000,000.

The Cell Games Begin

Mister Satan: 5.

Piccolo: 450,000,000.

Vegeta: 300,000,000.
-Super Saiyan: 15,000,000,000.

Trunks: 300,000,000.
-Super Saiyan: 15,000,000,000.

Son Goku: 400,000,000.
-Super Saiyan Full Power: 20,000,000,000.

Son Gohan: 500,000,000.
-Super Saiyan: 25,000,000,000.
-Super Saiyan 2: 50,000,000,000.
--Angered: 100,000,000,000. - due to being Gohan, he gets anger boosts on top of his Super Saiyan 2 power in accordance with Daizenshuu 2's Growing Up Section stating that Teen Gohan is so weak, because he didn't train and because he can't gain power from being angry.

Cell Juniors: 15,000,000,000.

Cell Perfect Form: 22,500,000,000.
-Full Power: 40,000,000,000.
--Kanzentai Third Grade: 60,000,000,000. - way stronger, but not fast enough nor strong enough to keep up with Gohan.
-Revival Power-Up: 80,000,000,000. - though he has powered up like Son Gohan, in the end it wasn't enough to win the Beam Struggle.

I've recently converted to Piccolo < Base Saiyans, so that explains the huge levels.

The Majin Buu Arc

The Birth of A New Hero!!

Mister Satan: 5.

Videl: 6.
-After training: 10.

Son Gohan: 500,000,000. Daizenshuu 2's Growing Up section says his strength hadn't changed since he was a kid.
-Super Saiyan: 25,000,000,000.

Son Goten: 500,000,000 - Daizenshuu 2's Growing Up section says Goten's battle power = Gohan's battle power.
-Super Saiyan: 25,000,000,000.

Trunks: 550,000,000.
-Super Saiyan: 27,500,000,000.

The Plan is Set in Motion

#18: 270,000,000.

Piccolo: 500,000,000.

Kibito: 700,000,000.

Shin (East Kaioshin): 45,000,000,000.
West Kaioshin: 50,000,000,000.
North Kaioshin: 50,000,000,000.
Great Kaioshin: 55,000,000,000.
South Kaioshin: 65,000,000,000.

Son Gohan: 750,000,000.
-After Tournament, Super Saiyan: 75,000,000,000.
--Daizenshuu 7 Retcon, Super Saiyan: 37,500,000,000.
-At Tournament, Super Saiyan 2: 75,000,000,000.
--Sensable Power: 50,000,000,000.

Son Goku: 1,200,000,000.
-Super Saiyan: 60,000,000,000.
-Burst of Super Saiyan 2: 70,000,000,000.
-Super Saiyan 2: 120,000,000,000.
-Super Saiyan 3: 480,000,000,000.
--holding back: 360,000,000,000.

Vegeta: 1,000,000,000.
-Super Saiyan 2: 100,000,000,000.
--Babidi Power Up: 120,000,000,000.

Gotenks: 9,000,000,000.
-Super Saiyan: 450,000,000,000.

Babidi: 1,500.
Pui Pui: 200,000,000.
Yakon: 800,000,000.
Dabra: 80,000,000,000. - Goku states he's about as strong as Cell, Daizenshuu 7 rounds it, so they are equals.

Majin Buu (Fat): 80,000,000,000.
-Power-up 1: 150,000,000,000.
--Power-up 2: 300,000,000,000.

Mr. Buu: 80,000,000,000.
Pure Evil Buu: 220,000,000,000.

The Terrible New Majin Buu

Majin Buu (evil): 4,800,000,000,000.
-With Super Gotenks & Piccolo: 9,600,500,000,000.
-With Gohan, the two squirts & Piccolo: 12,301,833,333,333.
-With South Kaioshin: 6,000,000,000,000.

Kaioshin(merged): 1,260,000,000,000.

Gotenks: 12,000,000,000.
-Super Saiyan: 600,000,000,000.
-Super Saiyan 2: 1,200,000,000,000.
-Super Saiyan 3: 4,800,000,000,000.

Son Gohan Ultimate Power: 7,500,000,000,000. - All his Saiyan Powers brought out plus his additional rage boosts makes his normal form(and now only form) 10,000 times more powerful than before!!

Vegetto: 12,000,000,000,000.
-Super: 60,000,000,000,000. - It can be argued whether or not Vegetto could have been a match for Buu without Super Saiyan. The way I see it, Vegetto realized that he needed to be way stronger than Buu to get absorbed. In the anime, even after being beaten around, Buu doesn't seem to think Vegetto could beat him, so it seems that complete domination was needed to make him become desperate.

A Match with the Whole Universe at Stake

Mr. Satan: 5.
Mr. Buu: 80,000,000,000.
Super Saiyan 2 Vegeta: 120,000,000,000.
Super Saiyan 3 Goku: 480,000,000,000.

Genkidama: 1,000,000,000,000.

Majin Buu (pure): 480,000,000,000.

So in the final battle instead of going the normal route ie. strongest possible Hero(Vegetto) faces the Villain at his absolute strongest(Buu with Gohan absorbed), Toriyama made it so, that some of the weakest heroes(Mr. Satan, Mr. Buu, Vegeta & Goku) faced a weak version of Majin Buu.

[CatouttaHell]

Woah, I've never seen a list with Base Goten (Pre) > Piccolo before. Funny, I just converted days ago from Base Saiya-jins > Piccolo just because Goten = Gohan. Not trying to mock you or anything, just saying I found that weird. You did Base Saiya-jins > Piccolo with a 50x boost way better than I did. I pretty much just implemented gargantuan gaps anywhere I possibly could just so I could have Piccolo at least being able to dominate #16 by the Boo Arc and ended up with Base Saiya-jins in the tens of billions.

I agree 100% with Teen = Kid Gohan, the Angered/Enraged boost, and Dabra > SSjin 2 Gohan. You were the one who converted me to believing the last one, BTW.

I don't really believe Gotenks and Gohan should be that strong. Goku, Chibi Boo, and even Vegeta are implied to still be relevant in the very last arc, but whatever. Also Base Vegetto should be weaker than Boohan IMO because the moment he appeared Boohan hurled a blast at him and he instantly went SSjin to deflect it. Just my opinion though. Out of curiousity, what's your explanation for Boo getting such a big boost from absorbing South Kaioshin?

I like how you have Mr. Satan at 5. I too believe he's just a normal human. I mean sure he won the Tenkaichi Budokai but IIRC the opponents at the 25th are mainly the same guys he faced last time (that and the Z-Senshi) and they're pretty much pathetic joke characters. Great list overall, man.

[Senzu_Bean]

Since you're not an anti-Daizenshuu fanboy do you realize that the Daizenshuu clearly contradicts the notion of Saiyans being stronger than Piccolo? It claims Kibito's battle power is high enough to give Gohan a difficult fight as long as he isn't a Super Saiyan and that East Kaioshin is far superior to the Super Namekian Piccolo.

Unless Kibito is stronger than the Kaioshin the Saiyans being stronger than Piccolo isn't true.

[CatouttaHell]

Senzu_Bean, those charts are a very interesting, original idea. Also, am I misinterpreting your chart or do you think Pure Boo > Chou Gohan? (I don't mean that as a criticism, I believe that myself.)

[Senzu_Bean]

Senzu_Bean, those charts are a very interesting, original idea.

Thank you.

Also, am I misinterpreting your chart or do you think Pure Boo > Chou Gohan? (I don't mean that as a criticism, I believe that myself.)

Yes. Also that Goku is stronger than Gohan and Gotenks, and Evil Buu is equal to Innocent Buu just that he is Evil > Good rather than Good > Evil as in Innocent Buu.

[CatouttaHell]

Yes. Also that Goku is stronger than Gohan and Gotenks, and Evil Buu is equal to Innocent Buu just that he is Evil > Good rather than Good > Evil as in Innocent Buu.

That's very interesting, I've never heard anything like that suggested before. I was about to bring up a quote but the manga itself simply says he became more evil and that his body is better suited for battle. Kind of weird how it doesn't actually state he got stronger despite strength being by far the most important thing in DBZ battles. I have SSjin 3 Gokū, Chou Gohan, and SSjin 3 Gotenks on the exact same tier right now and Chibi Boo 1.333x stronger because I don't want to give Gotenks a radically different multiplier for SSjin 3. Shin Boo = Fat Boo is a very cool idea though.

I honestly don't think Gotenks is anywhere near what most people think. The Daizenshuu says Goten = Gohan and that Gotenks only surpassed Vegeta and co after the RoSaT (mentions the second strongest instead of THE strongest guy by name, interestingly.) With a 2x SSjin 2 multiplier that implies a very minuscule boost, if not plain Goten+Trunks. Considering that, Fat Boo=Shin Boo is a likely thing.

[Senzu_Bean]

That's very interesting, I've never heard anything like that suggested before. I was about to bring up a quote but the manga itself simply says he became more evil and that his body is better suited for battle.

Piccolo also states something about everything in this Buu been "greater" than the previous one. But "great" means a lot of things (I mean, his belly isn't greater than before and Kami is greater than Mr. Popo but the latter is probably stronger than the Namekian) and since no one actually says "OMG! This Buu is in a completely different dimension than the fatto" and the Daizenshuu pretty much says they are equal... yep.

I honestly don't think Gotenks is anywhere near what most people think.

Neither do I. The Daizenshuu says he is weaker than Vegeta and the rest of the fighters before training in RoSaT and he only surpassed them after training which is taking in account his Super Saiyan 3 power.

[CatouttaHell]

Piccolo also states something about everything in this Buu been "greater" than the previous one. But "great" means a lot of stuff (I mean, his belly isn't greater than before) and since no one actually says "OMG! This Buu is in a completely different dimension than the fatto" and the Daizenshuu pretty much says they are equal... yep.

Yeah that's true. Mr. Popo says Kami-sama is much greater than him but the Weekly Jump numbers put Kami-sama below him. Out of curiousity, where does the Daizenshuu say they're equal? If this is so, this whole Chibi Boo > Shin Boo thing, which in my opinion is VERY heavily implied would make far more sense numerically.

Neither do I. The Daizenshuu clearly says he is weaker than Vegeta and the rest of the fighters before training in the RoSaT.

That's true. Gotenks really has no feats that show he's anywhere near what most people think he is. He's just a gag character who is constantly supposed to be this really great, amazing guy but does nothing but fail on every count IMO.